[Reader-list] Fwd: Censorship? by Rachna Patni

[iram at sarai.net]

------  Original Message  ------
Subject: Fwd: Censorship?
To:      reader-list at sarai.net
From:    Rachana Patni <rachana.patni at gmail.com>
Date:    Mon, 01 Aug 2005 06:47:46 +0200


I agree with the Sarai moderator's position that any censorship to this
list has to be on the prerogative of those that contribute.
It just does not make any sense to 'shame' the moderator or anyone else for
that matter. It is quite interesting that this list is helping break any
myth about what the intelligentsia is, or thinks of!
What I find troubling is that in responding to the jogi, everyone has more
or less forgotten the original post, which was about protecting the rights
of Indian Muslim women.
While the debate could have taken the shape of arguing about social justice
and liberalism and the dimensions of universalism and particularism, it has
spiralled down into religious mud-slinging.
Maybe this is a good thing. Perhaps these matters cannot be resolved on
intellectual high-horses. Why should we, who want to deliberate on pratical
realities, insist that our discussion be sanitised?
What we need to take on board from this is that there exists a strong
social representation of the kind that jogi has brought to our notice. It
is not just some view-point that is held by the illeterate, un-educated and
opiated religious groups, it transcends all structural positions. Therefore
none of us can claim to be clean from this array of thoughts. It permeates
our life-spaces. This is troubling, to say the least. And it is also a
global pheonomenon today. So the only reason we may want to censor this is
if we cannot challenge these views without falling prey to the same
standard of arguments.

So let's try to change the shape of this argument. Let me begin by asking
people what their views are about universalism and particularism in the
context of women's rights? This is not merely to help us all talk once
again about whether equality is about difference or about sameness?

Perhaps we could start with the questions ' Is 'communal' difference an
illeberal notion?' For example, do we all agree that women all over the
world, without regard to their religion may want similar rights? If certain
communities want to systematically hold on to certain differences, is it
illeberal to allow them to do so? What of individuals in that communitiy
who do not agree?
To add to these questions are other related ones:
Are differences in liberal societies only permitted when these have been
individualistically arrived at? (although one could argue there is no such
thing as individualistically, it is still a useful concept)
Is there more that one possible vision of what a just society is like?
Is democracy totalitarian when it suggests it is the only way to organise
socieities?

Let's hope that we are well and truly able to overcome the 'jog-rog' .

Rachana

On 7/30/05, reader-list-request at sarai.net <reader-list-request at sarai.net>
wrote:
> Send reader-list mailing list submissions to
> reader-list at sarai.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> reader-list-request at sarai.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> reader-list-owner at sarai.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: reader-list Digest, Vol 24, Issue 60 (Ayona Datta)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:28:38 +0000
> From: "Ayona Datta" <ayonadatta at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [Reader-list] RE: reader-list Digest, Vol 24, Issue 60
> To: reader-list at sarai.net
> Message-ID: <BAY103-F28E47F37271B94E1C1BE78D3C10 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> Shame on the Sarai moderator and shame on all those who are promoting such
> sectarian language in what is supposed to be forum for intellectual and
> 'civilised' discussion. Ms Yogi and Mr Roger Das, please take your views
to
> other fanatical websites where they will welcome your proposals with open
> arms. Today I find it embarassing to associate my own history with India
> knowing that it is home to such extremist views among the intelligensia.
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: reader-list-request at sarai.net
> Reply-To: reader-list at sarai.net
> To: reader-list at sarai.net
> Subject: reader-list Digest, Vol 24, Issue 60
> Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:49:34 +0200 (CEST)
>
> Send reader-list mailing list submissions to
> reader-list at sarai.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> reader-list-request at sarai.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> reader-list-owner at sarai.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Indo-US pact (mahmood farooqui)
> 2. Re: Re: [Reader-list] WHO WILL PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF INDIAN
> MUSLIMWOMEN?? (Manosh Chowdhury)
> 3. Bombay Floods, Prashant Pandey (Prashant Pandey)
> 4. Re: Re: [Reader-list] WHO WILL PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF INDIAN
> MUSLIMWOMEN?? (roger das)