[Reader-list] RE: reader-list Digest, Vol 24, Issue 60
Ayona Datta
ayonadatta at hotmail.com
Sat Jul 30 14:58:38 IST 2005
Shame on the Sarai moderator and shame on all those who are promoting such
sectarian language in what is supposed to be forum for intellectual and
'civilised' discussion. Ms Yogi and Mr Roger Das, please take your views to
other fanatical websites where they will welcome your proposals with open
arms. Today I find it embarassing to associate my own history with India
knowing that it is home to such extremist views among the intelligensia.
----Original Message Follows----
From: reader-list-request at sarai.net
Reply-To: reader-list at sarai.net
To: reader-list at sarai.net
Subject: reader-list Digest, Vol 24, Issue 60
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:49:34 +0200 (CEST)
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Today's Topics:
1. Indo-US pact (mahmood farooqui)
2. Re: Re: [Reader-list] WHO WILL PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF INDIAN
MUSLIMWOMEN?? (Manosh Chowdhury)
3. Bombay Floods, Prashant Pandey (Prashant Pandey)
4. Re: Re: [Reader-list] WHO WILL PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF INDIAN
MUSLIMWOMEN?? (roger das)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:49:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: mahmood farooqui <mahmoodfarooqui at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Reader-list] Indo-US pact
To: vivek at sarai.net, reader-list at sarai.net
Message-ID: <20050730034938.79313.qmail at web80908.mail.scd.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
If anybody has been following the issue, can I please
learn something about the pact's significance and its
possible impact in the long run?
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 05:13:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Manosh Chowdhury <manoshchowdhury at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [Reader-list] WHO WILL PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF INDIAN
MUSLIMWOMEN??
To: Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com>, rgdj12 at yahoo.com
Cc: reader-list at sarai.net, readers-list at sarai.net,
reader-lists at sarai.net
Message-ID: <20050729121316.78763.qmail at web53315.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
THE INVISIBLE MODERATOR!
Can anybody tell me please the role of SARAI-moderator? I cannot find the
desk, truly. And not incidentally, I am not an Indian [But I know the slogan
"Mera Bharat Mahan", and I can see the the greatness through the group
members]. Or Ms. Vedavati Jogi is considered to be the justification of the
great democracy and plurality? Pathetic!
manosh chowdhury
Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:
thank you very much for this compliment though i am not a rss volunteer!
i find reflection of a typical muslim mind in your letter. very first thing,
lets adopt shariah, now tell me will you & your secular brothers & sisters
accept punishments like amputing hands & legs? only because you are in india
you are allowed to talk any stupid thing against hindus & hindustan, will
pakistan give this freedom to any non-muslim?
secondly, gujrat happened because godhra happened.because muslims can
understand only this language used by gujrati brothers.
third thing, non of the countries on this earth has ever taken pride for
invader's deeds, hindus did the best thing that they dismantled babri
masjid. now they should take law in their hands & complete the remaining
task of dismantling remaining masjids which were erected by dismantling
hindu temples.
fourth point, indian army is facing lot of pressure in kashmir, they don't
have time for looting or raping the kashimiris, people like you are traitors
i must say, who are trying to demoralise our military.if you get some time
please go to kashmir & see for yourself how many mandirs have been burnt,
how many houses vacated by pandits have been looted,captured or even
burnt....for your kind information i am a maharashtrian married to a
kashmiri pandit who has become refugee in his own country because of muslims
like you.
now tell me why shouldn't we throw you out of this country?
vedavati ravindra jogi
__________________________________________________
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Message: 3
Date: 29 Jul 2005 17:03:45 -0000
From: "Prashant Pandey" <prashantpandey10 at rediffmail.com>
Subject: [Reader-list] Bombay Floods, Prashant Pandey
To: reader-list at sarai.net
Message-ID: <20050729170345.22897.qmail at webmail53.rediffmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi all
I hope you all are doing well. Well I want
to share my experience of the Bombay flood.
This is quite long but i am sure you will
like it.
Before I do so I hope everybody from Sarai
community esp. our people in Bombay…Deboshree,
Ankur, Kaiwan, Madhavi,Pankaj, Shai,Lakshmi…
everybody is fine.
It starts with a simple miscalculation.
Its 2.30 pm. 25 th july. I have a research
appointment at Bandra. Outside, its
raining. I think it’s just like any other
routine rain.
So I come out with my umbrella and a small
polythene bag containing a notebook and
other stuff. Its raining very hard. There
is a mountain just behind our society and
muddy water is flowing high and wild.
I “think” that the rain will subside so I
take a short cut to the main Road i.e L.B.S
marg ( lal bahadur shashtri road), a very
prominent road which runs parallel to the
central line in Bombay.
2.45 pm Shreyas cinema Ghatkopar west
I manage to get an auto for Bandra…the auto
wallah ignores the commuters who are trying
to hitch a ride. We have come to the Thane-VT
highway. Now I see rains all over. I am inside
the auto and I am all wet. Near VidyaVihar
flyover the auto comes to a standstill. I
complain “ I should have taken the train”.
Auto-driver replies, “Trains are not running
since morning” For the first time realize what
mess I have gotten into. I lose patience…pay up
whatever fare and stand on the flyover looking
at speeding cars and trucks.
3.30 pm VidyaVihar Flyover
I triple on a bike with two funny guys who are
going to Dharavi. They tell me that Bandra is 5
minutes walk from Dharavi. I still “think” that
the rains will stop in some time. I get down at
Dharavi after having witnessed some great biking
( avoiding skidding and traffic policemen).
5.30 pm Dharavi
There is traffic jam that slowly unravels.
Its huge and extends all over.
Road to dadar…full. Road to sion…full….road
to bandra…full.
I leave my second auto. Now I am walking with
thousands of women, men, girls and boys. I am
stuck and there is no going back. I decide to
go for my appointment at Carter Road. So from
Dharavi I walk to Carter Road. Trees have
fallen down. I see cars going down. There is
lot of sound that I hear. Shouts…cat calls…hooting.
7.30 pm Carter Road
I am three hours late…but this looks like a
calamity. Isn’t it? I take out my phone to
call up the person who I went to see. Guess…
my phone looks like a water game (the kinds
that they sell in trains). So I cancel my plans…
9 pm…Bandra Station (West )
I decide to stay at Bandra Station like
everybody. But once I see it. I can’t.
Bandra station is badly flooded and is
swelling with people. I meet a lady and a
young man. All of us want to go to areas
that are on the central line- Sion( lady),
Ghatkopar(myself) and Thane(young man).
We persuade an auto driver who chooses to
listen to us only amidst 20 other commuters
yelling at him the places they want to go.
Barely 10 meters has the auto moved towards
Bandra east flyover, we find ourselves in
the most bizarre traffic jam in the universe.
Its amorphous, purposeless, dark and unending.
part of this jam is constituted by people
who are watching theirs cars and motorcycles
go down in water some 15 meters way.
It’s like star gazing when they tell
each other “that’s my car”
11 pm Between Bandra West & East
Back in auto…the lady who is a school teacher
has lost it. She is breathing heavily. I get
a man to call her relatives who stay nearby.
( everybody shared drinking water and smiles
but no mobile phones so this was a great
gesture on that mans part) A miracle happens-
the call consummates with out any pee-pee or
getting cut. However the lady is troubled
because she hasn’t met these relatives for
8-9 years. She tells me, “ kabhi jaroorat
nahi padi” . her husband had called up her
school and left this phone number.
I propose a grand plan of walking to Sion.
She rejects it while the young man is
thinking about it. I come up with another
plan,” We will walk to Bandra Kurla Complex
( home for state-of-the art but now flooded
offices) and stay in ICICI like others.
We cannot, later I learn, as there is almost
5 ft of water to be crossed. I believe it
this piece of information. Before anything
happens the lady is out of the auto and has
left without paying(?) the autowalla.
This auto-walla has the most quixotic plan.
He wants to take an unimaginable U-turn and
come back to Bandra Station and take S.V road
( Swami Vivekanand Road). He would take us to
Andheri (east) and then to Ghatkopar through
Marol Naka. This auto wallah is a sadist. (I
had heard two hours back that 12 kids died in
Marol and Andheri was hell with its gutters.)
Though he plays us some remixes blaring with
a ghoom ghoom sound from the damp speakers
and I give him my cellphone to warm it in
some heated quarter of his auto. He opens a
box and keeps it there.
Now this young man and I…both are trying out
life in this wet auto. We try to sleep (a fake
put-on form of sleep), discuss cricket and two
hours later come to a conclusion that this auto
wallah is cheating us. “Ye Behen**** humko shendi
laga raha hai” The auto wallah is merrymaking
with other taxi drivers. So we decide to leave
the auto and find way on our own. We pay up
after the customary mutual allegations. We
tell him that we cannot pay 100 rupees for
nothing. He is a marathi yet to defeat him I
ask him, “are you from Delhi “The auto driver
is wondering at our unity. I give him 70 rupees
for taking us 10 meters away from the point
where we actually boarded the auto.
2 am Bandra east
We have decided we will walk to Sion. There
are lots of people who strongly dissuade us.
There are jokes, discussions and kissagoi
(storytelling) – in 3 feet water climbing upto
our thighs. I want to get out of this gorgonic
jam. I tell him” all these are middle class
losers who are stuck with their cars with their
fat wives and we don’t have any (cars and wives)
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 01:03:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: roger das <rgdj12 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [Reader-list] WHO WILL PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF INDIAN
MUSLIMWOMEN??
To: Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com>
Cc: reader-list at sarai.net, readers-list at sarai.net,
reader-lists at sarai.net
Message-ID: <20050728080336.26386.qmail at web42402.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I must say to this RSS volunteer that though he/she is hindu but know
nothing about their own religion and thus goes on maligning Islam bcoz they
afraid the way People from all over the world embracing Islam on their own
will. it is the fastest spreading religion even in land of zionist-USA, UK,
Europe....south asia etc. If you are talking about uniform civil code then
do a debate to adopt the best rule for all Indian and am damn sure that
after reading world class book only shariah will emerge as the supreme law
coz it is the law of GOD- the best for all human kind.
The so called 'rule of the land' in India is most widely violated by these
so called 'Indians hindus' e.g. Babri Masjid demolition, Gujarat massacre,
raping and looting by Indian Army in kashmir, North eastern states, Mumbai
riot, fake encounter of muslims brothers, alineated them from mainstream by
not giving them jobs on ythe basis of religion, curbing their talent, making
false allegation all the time to establish a notion that they are not
patriotic, deleting history of their efforts in freedom fighting and nation
building....etc etc....so many instances I can give to these so called
patriotic Indian hindus.
I hope this message will find palce in the posting list.....coz my last
nessages didnt put on the saem just bcoz it didnt suits sarai coordinator.
accept the truth
Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:
i did not talk about 'dividing india'. i want to throw out those muslims
who don't accept rule of the land.
>From: "khadeeja arif"
>Reply-To: khadeeja arif
>To: reader-list at sarai.net
>Subject: Re: Re: [Reader-list] WHO WILL PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF INDIAN
>MUSLIMWOMEN??
>Date: 27 Jul 2005 07:35:09 -0000
>
> Ms Inda
>
>"Well, why not to make an other partition where we can put all the Indian
>Muslim, since they will probably not be accepted, neither, in Pakistan!"
>
>Is this statement very different from Vadevati's statement?? I am curious
>to know!!
>cheers
>K
>
>
>
>On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 linda bouifrou wrote :
> >
> >
> >
> >How life is funny,
> >
> >
> >
> >I, a proud French Muslim women, just came back from lunch. During this
>time of relaxation, I had a talk with my friends (Indians & French) about
>our love for India. We spoke about Gandhi, Nehru as much as about Tagore
or
>Roy. My first answer to explain and show my admiration about your country
>was to demonstrate that such a multi-cultural/Ethnical/religious country
>can still be united !
> >
> >How chocked I’ve been to read these exchanges of e-mails… but still not
>disappointed by India.
> >
> >Well, why not to make an other partition where we can put all the Indian
>Muslim, since they will probably not be accepted, neither, in Pakistan !
> >
> >
> >
> >Manish Tewani a écrit : HI, all Without reading the
>entire e.mail, Vedavati has replied back giving an answer. It is calling
>for abolishing of mechanisms, institutions and actions against Indian
>Muslim Women. One should first cross-check and be aware of what an amount
>of positive impact, organisations like Awaaz-e-Niswaan, WRAG are having in
>changing the society, at the grassroots level. After this, one has every
>right to be critical of such efforts. I am not in a lecturer or
>preacher's mode, but Jogi's response is quite an un-clear, demeaning and
>rather un-civilised that Muslims should move to Islamic countries.
>According to Jogi's ideas, all of us Hindus should move to Nepal (A Hindu
>State). With regards, Manish
> > On 7/22/05, Vedavati Jogi wrote: demonstrations
>will not serve any purpose, muslims are not accepting common
> >civil code under the pretext of 'secularism, pluralism' etc.etc. first
>ask
> >them to accept the law of the land or else pack them off to pakistan or
>any
> >arab country.
> >
> > >From: abshi at vsnl.com
> > >To: reader-list at sarai.net
> > >Subject: [Reader-list] WHO WILL PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF INDIAN MUSLIM
>WOMEN??
> > >Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:22:08 +0200
> > >
> > >INVITATION
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >July 21, 2005
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >INVITATION
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >July 21, 2005
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >?WHO WILL PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF INDIAN MUSLIM WOMEN??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Awaaz-e-Niswaan, Akshara, Forum Against Oppression of Women,
> > >Hukook-e-Niswaan, Mahila Sanghatana, India Centre For Human Rights,
>PUKAR
> > >(Gender & Space project), Special Cell for Women and Children, Women?s
> > >Research and Action Group invite you support and attend a mass
> > >demonstration being organized by women?s groups to express our
>discontent
> > >and anger with the rise in strength of extra-judicial forces like the
> > >shariah jamaats, as has been evident in the recent Imrana case in
> > >Muzaffarnagar in U.P, and the increase in the number of anti-women
>fatwas
> > >being issued by local panchayats and self-styled religious leaders.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >In most of these cases not only are the interests and rights of Indian
> > >Muslim women being trampled upon but there?s also a total disregard
for
>the
> > >rule of law.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >We, a collective of organizations supporting women?s rights, believe
>that
> > >we simply cannot have parallel judicial systems running in this
>country. We
> > >demand that the State play a more active role in protecting and
>advancing
> > >the rights of Indian Muslim women.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >The demonstration will be on Saturday, July 23, 2005. It will start at
>2.30
> > >pm at Nagpada junction (near Sagar Hotel/Nagpada police station) and
go
>via
> > >the JJ Hospital junction down Mohammed Ali Road and end at Azad
Maidan.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Thanking you
> > >
> > >Yours sincerely,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Awaaz-e-Niswaan, Akshara, Forum Against Oppression of Women,
> > >Hukook-e-Niswaan, Mahila Sanghatana, India Centre For Human Rights,
>PUKAR
> > >(Gender & Space project), Special Cell for Women and Children, Women?s
> > >Research and Action Group
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >For further information, contact:
> > >
> > >* Awaaz-e-Niswaan: 9819106124 (Farhat and Smita)
> > >
> > >* Women?s Research & Action Group: 9833072690 (Noorjahan and Shabana)
> > >
> > >* Forum Against Oppression of Women: 9820833422 (Sandhya Gokhale)
> > >
> > >* India Centre for Human Rights & Law Network: 9820022614 (Chetna
>Birje)
> > >
> > >* PUKAR Gender & Space Project: 9820290402 (Sameera Khan)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Awaaz-e-Niswaan, Akshara, Forum Against Oppression of Women,
> > >Hukook-e-Niswaan, Mahila Sanghatana, India Centre For Human Rights,
>PUKAR
> > >(Gender & Space project), Special Cell for Women and Children, Women?s
> > >Research and Action Group invite you support and attend a mass
> > >demonstration being organized by women?s groups to express our
>discontent
> > >and anger with the rise in strength of extra-judicial forces like the
> > >shariah jamaats, as has been evident in the recent Imrana case in
> > >Muzaffarnagar in U.P, and the increase in the number of anti-women
>fatwas
> > >being issued by local panchayats and self-styled religious leaders.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >In most of these cases not only are the interests and rights of Indian
> > >Muslim women being trampled upon but there?s also a total disregard
for
>the
> > >rule of law.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >We, a collective of organizations supporting women?s rights, believe
>that
> > >we simply cannot have parallel judicial systems running in this
>country. We
> > >demand that the State play a more active role in protecting and
>advancing
> > >the rights of Indian Muslim women.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >The demonstration will be on Saturday, July 23, 2005. It will start at
>2.30
> > >pm at Nagpada junction (near Sagar Hotel/Nagpada police station) and
go
>via
> > >the JJ Hospital junction down Mohammed Ali Road and end at Azad
Maidan.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Thanking you
> > >
> > >Yours sincerely,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Awaaz-e-Niswaan, Akshara, Forum Against Oppression of Women,
> > >Hukook-e-Niswaan, Mahila Sanghatana, India Centre For Human Rights,
>PUKAR
> > >(Gender & Space project), Special Cell for Women and Children, Women?s
> > >Research and Action Group
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >For further information, contact:
> > >
> > >* Awaaz-e-Niswaan: 9819106124 (Farhat and Smita)
> > >
> > >* Women?s Research & Action Group: 9833072690 (Noorjahan and Shabana)
> > >
> > >* Forum Against Oppression of Women: 9820833422 (Sandhya Gokhale)
> > >
> > >* India Centre for Human Rights & Law Network: 9820022614 (Chetna
>Birje)
> > >
> > >* PUKAR Gender & Space Project: 9820290402 (Sameera Khan)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________
> > >reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > >Critiques & Collaborations
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> >
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> >BOUIFROU Linda - Doctorante allocataire de recherche en géographie
>urbaine. Phd Student in Urban Geography.
> >LABORATOIRE SEDET / CNRS - Université Paris 7 – Denis Diderot 2, place
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> >
> >
> >INSTITUT FRANCAIS DE PONDICHERRY - IFP -11, Saint Louis Street.
>Pondicherry – 605 001 - India.
> >CENTRE DES SCIENCES HUMAINES - CSH - 2 Aurangzeb Road. New Delhi 110 011
>- India. Ph. (91) 11 2 301 6259 Fax. (91) 11 2 301 8480
> >
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> >---------------------------------
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> > Téléchargez le ici !
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