[Reader-list] On "what ails reader-list"

[punam zutshi]

Subramanya aka Subbu (and Kiran) ,

Thanks so much for intervening, I was beginning to worry whether my
perceptions about Kiran's charge about the collapse of this list were
skewed and unique! I do wish that others who hold views similar to
Kiran's would join the discussion.

Oddly enough, I had not registered the fact that a digest could be
subscribed to, that is certainly an important point in terms of
choices. And yes if e mail stopped being the mode of communication for
this list, I would also opt out.

I think Nitoo Das did refer in her e mail of Aug 27 addressed to Kiran
to the threefold stated purposes of the reader list.She writes:

" It is meant, as you pointed out, for "Announcements, Independent
Fellows' postings, General Discussions, and responses to all these."
These discussions are usually of the non-frivolous variety and, more
often than not, we see a consistent engagement with, what can only be
termed as, 'intellectual' issues."

As I was not present at the Sarai presentations, I can only refer to
Kiran's postings on the list.I feel Kiran has yet to make the case
about the collapse of the list or even all the 'problems' with it .I
was alluding to this in my last mail with that wisecrack about
classified information.

Does anyone remember my desperate pleas about better archiving/search
facilities, or should those be addressed to Other Quarters?

Punam



On 9/7/05, Subramanya Sastry <sastry at cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
> Kiran and Punam,
> 
> I have been watching the exchange with some interest -- and though I meant to
> write earlier, I am only getting around to it now.
> 
> I am one of the silent members of the list -- though having opted to receive
> emails in digest form, am able to quickly decide what to read and what not to.
> And, reader-list is one of those few email lists that I pay attention to.
> 
> Having said that, I am not sure I understand the reasons that has led Kiran to
> speculate that the list is in a state of collapse.  For one, I have been a
> part of this list for about a year, I do not know what the original
> intentions/expectations were for setting up this list, and how the email
> exchanges on this list measure up to those expectations.  Despite all that, I
> feel it sounds somewhat sensationalist to indicate that the list is crumbling.
> 
> But, I have never seen the reader-list as a "community" -- only perhaps in a
> very loose sense could that term apply to a mailing list.  The term is also a
> somewhat abused term, and it perhaps helps to clarify what one means when one
> talks of "community" in the online world.  Yet, going beyond that, where there
> is an already existing "community" in the flesh-and-blood world, a mailing
> list could potentially be a useful tool in sustaining that community (for
> example, a group of friends, a group of outgoing graduates perhaps, etc.).
> 
> But I think it would be too much to expect a mailing list to build a community
> around all members of the mailing list.  Such expectations could be perhaps
> somewhat uncharitably described as technological romanticism.  But, that is
> not to mean that small sub-communities dont form amongst members of the
> mailing list (purely based on what one picks up from people's postings on
> various topics).  I have made many a friend (and very good friends at that)
> because of a sense of "kinship" that I felt based on reading email posts on
> mailing lists that I have been a part of -- but that again is a formation of
> sub-communities that is unpredictable/uncontrollable rather than the romantic
> notion of making a community of all members of a mailing list.
> 
> So, perhaps it is good to clarify the intentions/expectations of what one
> means when a reference is made to "community" in the online world.  Or perhaps
> better still, what is Sarai looking for when you have instituted "reader-list"
> as a mailing list, or if something like that is launched on LiveJournal or one
> of the countless "community"-building/sustaining tools that now exist and will
> continue to spring forth.  It is those expectations that can be a baseline for
> evaluating various tools.  Without clarity at that level, all this will become
> a case of peering down the wrong end of the tube.
> 
> In any case, there is nothing particularly "wrong" if reader-list crumbles
> or dies.  I am sure sub-communities have been made, people have formed
> relationships, and friendships have been forged.  Something new can and will
> come up in its place ... if done consciously, it requires clarifying intentions
> and expectations.
> 
> Just on the level of "what aids reader-list", yes, one can make various
> observations and I would not have much to contest with Kiran or Punam.
> Yes, there is too much email, but, my solution is to opt for a digest
> format.  If the discussion on the list ceases to be of interest to me,
> I would unsubscribe from it at some point.  But, I also know personally
> that I am not one of those who visits journals/blogs or various other
> offline forums.  So, a non-email based forum will be the end of participation
> as far as I am concerned.  I think individual personalities are a very
> important consideration for what forms of communities (online/offline/real/
> virtual/mailing-list/forum/livejournal/wiki/blog...) each one of us
> participates in.  So, it is equally important to factor this into the
> decision/discussion.  And, really speaking, there is no reason why there
> can't be a mailing list, a LiveJournal approach, wiki approach ... all to
> co-exist (around matters of interest of Sarai) .. each one will attract
> its own crowd.
> 
> I have rambled long enough for now ... so, I will stop for now ...
> 
> Best,
> Subbu.
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