[Reader-list] Protest (on April 1st) SC's stay on OBC reservationand brainstorm about how to furtherr Social Justice!

burton cleetus burtoncleetus at yahoo.co.uk
Tue Apr 3 10:13:02 IST 2007


Hi Vedprakash
First of all i wish to state that i am not Satianath
as you wrote, I am Burton . you say that the whole
issue of reservation'is very complicated', there is
nothing complicated or scientific about it. the only
problem was that, the peculiar situation arose by a
contigency that was necessitated by the II world war,
which led the enumerators to drop a proper caste based
census in 1941. This however became a precedent, or
rather a reason to conveniently forget the issue of
caste in census records from 1951. which ultimately
led to a situation of this sort. You point out 'some
sort of a contradiction, regarding the absence of
caste based enumeration and the caste based politics'
that emerged in the post independent india. i never
mentioned the emergence of caste based politics, in my
previous mail so that it has to contradict with what i
said in my mail. 

After all these dont contradict, nor are they related
to each other at all. they are two different issues.
The only point that i was trying to raise was, should
the mistake of omitting caste based enumeration from
1951 onwards, be a justification for further mistakes
and denial of rights of the lower sections of the
society?

Burton
--- Vedprakash Sharma <vedprakash.sharma at gmail.com>
wrote:

> dear Satinath,
> this is very complicated. on one side, Govt does not
> wish to have a caste based survey, as you wrote,
> "After independence, the new political and
> bureaucratic authorities of the "new" nation decided
> to do away with
> the idea of caste on any categorization in census
> records. This was because Caste signified some thing
> derogatory in the new context. This complicated
> the whole enumeration process and thereby failed to
> arrive at any meaning full analysis on the social
> condition of different caste groups in India."  
> and on the other hand, most of the political parties
> play the vote bank politics. don't you think, both
> the tendencies contradict each other?
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: burton cleetus 
>   To: Vedprakash Sharma ; reader-list at sarai.net 
>   Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 10:48 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Protest (on April 1st)
> SC's stay on OBC reservationand brainstorm about how
> to furtherr Social Justice!
> 
> 
>   Dear Vedprakash
> 
>   One of the most 'serious' objections raised by the
> SC with regard to the OBC reservation, is the
> regarding determination of the status of caste, for
> OBC reservation, based on the 1931 census. Yes the
> last census that gave any indication to the position
> of caste and their human development indices in
> india was the 1931 census. From 1881 to 1931 caste
> was an important criteria in the tabulation of the
> social position of the different sections of the
> sub-continent. However, the outbreak of the second
> world was in 1939, failed to the creation of an
> elaborate census in 1941. Hence the 1941 census
> cannot be used as an indication of any form of
> serious analysis. After independence, the new
> political and bureaucratic authorities of the "new"
> nation decided to do away with the idea of caste on
> any categorisation in census records. This was
> because Caste signified some thing derogatory in the
> new context. This complicated the whole enumeration
> process and thereby failed to arrive at any meaning
> ful analysis on the social condition of different
> caste groups in India. 
> 
>   There is no analysis in census records from 1931
> onwards does not mean that caste as a social
> category, and the disadvantages attached to caste
> dissapeared and an 'egalitarian system was
> established' after 1931. Are the lower castes to be
> blamed for not having a caste based enumeration
> after 1931. For them  the idea of the new state to
> avoid the "category of caste" in census records
> closed any analysis on their social position. In a
> sense, for them, after independence, this shift was
> like from frying pan to fire!
> 
>   Burton
> 
>   Vedprakash Sharma <vedprakash.sharma at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>     it looks as if I went through the mail of a
> political leader. in my humble 
>     opinion, the SC has raised some very genuine
> objections. without a 
>     scientific analysis of the problem of
> reservation, one should not draw 
>     conclusions. we may have different views over it
> but the logic must prevail 
>     and the same should decide the criterion of the
> reservation.
>     ----- Original Message ----- 
>     From: "Shivam Vij" 
>     To: "sarai list" 
>     Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 12:30 PM
>     Subject: [Reader-list] Protest (on April 1st)
> SC's stay on OBC 
>     reservationand brainstorm about how to furtherr
> Social Justice!
> 
> 
>     > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>     > From: Satinath Choudhary 
>     >
>     > Dear friends from Delhi and close by,
>     >
>     > I am sorry for this late call! However,
> Emergency situation created
>     > by our upper caste Supreme Court does not give
> us the luxury of
>     > planning with plenty of time in our hands. Let
> us meet this Sunday,
>     > April 1st, 2007, at Jantar Mantar, Delhi,
> between 11 am to 1 pm, and
>     > accomplish a number of objectives in one shot!
>     >
>     > (a) Demo on Sunday, April 1st, 2007, at Jantar
> Mantar, Delhi,
>     > between 11 am to 1 pm against Supreme Court's
> stay OBC's reservation
>     > in higher education;
>     >
>     > (b) Brainstorm about declaring the month of
> April as Social Justice
>     > month. Social Justice month may attract
> participation and organizing
>     > on the part of STs, OBCs, and minorities, not
> many of whom have been
>     > organizing Ambedkar's birth anniversary;
>     >
>     > (c) Brainstorm about how to further the cause
> of social justice;
>     > in particular, how to democratize the court,
> especially the Supreme
>     > Autocratic Upper Caste.
>     >
>     > (d) Brainstorm about a bigger event by the end
> of April to further
>     > the cause of social justice
>     >
>     > If you have any suggestion with regard to any
> of the above
>     > mentioned things, please feel free to call me
> (at 9350041088) or write
>     > to me at satichou2 at yahoo.com.
>     >
>     > Dalit Voice Silver Jubilee Celebration
> Committee, Delhi invites you
>     > to join a daylong discussion and debate to
> mark the occasion of 25
>     > glorious years of Dalit Voice. Those of us who
> feel that Dalit Voice
>     > has contributed immensely to develop a new
> dynamic Ambedkarite
>     > movement would like to take this debate
> further.
>     >
>     > On April 8th, 2006, from 10 am to 5:30 pm, we
> all join hand to
>     > facilitate Dalit Voice for its wonderful
> journey. The daylong
>     > programme is organized at the Gandhi Peace
> Foundation, Deen Dayal
>     > Upadhyay Marg, Near ITO, New Delhi.
>     >
>     > Dalit Voice Silver Jubilee Celebration
> Committee: Rajni Tilak,
>     > Vidya Bhushan Rawat, Ashok Bharati, Satinath
> Choudhary, Abhimook
>     > Nayak,
>     >
>     > Contacts: vbrawat at gmail.com,
> rajni.nacdor at gmail.com, satichou2 at yahoo.com
>     > Telephone nos: 9871441261, 011-65902846,
> 22462528 (V.B.Rawat),
>     > 9871514040 ( Rajni Tilak) and 9350041088
> (Satinath).
>     >
>     > Regards,
>     > Satinath
>     > _________________________________________
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> 
> 
>
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