[Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house

Thu Aug 9 10:36:34 IST 2007

Rahul,

Finally a voice of sanity..Thanks for the perspective.

Regards

Rashneek

On 8/9/07, Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Vedavati,
> So your anger is against secular leaders,filmwalas
> etc. Well I concur with you.In my opinion so called
> liberals never had any idea of real politik.But thats
> why they dont dictate politcs in this country.Do you
> think that Kashmiris are anywhere near to
> self-determination than they were in say, 1948? No!
> Ok now let me establish where I come from.I oppose
> self determination both on an ideological and
> pragmatic basis.As long as the Kashmiris keep talking
> about self determination,Kashmir will remain a police
> state and innocent people of every religion will keep
> getting screwed.Sad, but true. Also, though I
> recognize the moral right of the jihadi to fight for
> self-determination, nation states do not work on such
> canonical moral principles and in that context,I
> recognize the jihadi as my enemy and will pay tax to
> kill him if necessary.
> But,I am against stuff like AFSPA,which gives the army
> power to kill without accountability.(By the
> way,people in NE states are screwed way beyond the
> kashmiris can ever imagine by the army)I believe that
> the organized army of a nation state should be held to
> stricter principles than terrorists/jihadis etc,so
> that there should be some protection to the innocent
> people. I hope your views would not to be much
> different.
>
> regards
> Rahul
>
>
> --- Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > it may appear childish but  i can't help it.
> >
> >  it is very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not
> > with its true essence, i am talking about typical
> > indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists
> > when you are not at the receiving end. my husband
> > being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral property
> > in shrinagar, many of his relatives are still
> > staying in refugee camps, (and our secular leaders,
> > filmwalas have not got time in last 18 years to
> > visit those camps),  two of his best friends were
> > gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished' by
> > the latter for being members of rss. (please don't
> > say that he worshipped mahatma hence he killed the
> > rss members.)
> > and if we decide to apply same logic then hindus
> > should also start killing members of muslim league
> > because they partitioned our country.
> >
> > all you seculars who keep ridiculing my thoughts on
> > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of
> > kashmiri migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants
> > who were advised by mahatma to go back to their
> > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in
> > pakistan.
> > and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody
> > principles
> >
> > vedavati
> > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From:
> > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in
> > Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com;
> > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want
> > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish
> > to be taken seriously (although I don't> mean to
> > demean children by saying that!). The complex>
> > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like
> > that.> Even if we could use this analogy, then, I
> > think our> house has been so huge and so resourceful
> > that it> didn't mind having a few guests from
> > outside taking> refuge in it. And they didn't come
> > as guests - they> came to do trade and business,
> > just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go to
> > America to becomes NRIs.> Now, once these
> > "outsiders" decided to call it their> home, they are
> > no longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or
> > came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can
> > even you prove that you are an "insider". Just>
> > because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now
> > let's talk about the guests> taking over the house
> > and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if they do so,
> > it is wrong. (But remember, no one> can claim to be
> > the "original" resident of this house> - its been
> > too damn long to argue on that). So, you> have no
> > authority to ask Shuddha or me to leave the> country
> > if we do not subscribe to the hollow words> called
> > Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting
> > on any specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which
> > I haven't seen). But in general, I> believe that the
> > exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry
> > affair, and if one has to find a long-term> solution
> > to the Kashmir problem, it must involve the>
> > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their>
> > original homes. But at the same time, the brutality>
> > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the
> > hands> of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And
> > if Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take sides,
> > then it is> bound to lead to this kind of situation.
> > Let us stop> taking sides and come to the middle
> > ground if need to> resolve any of our conficts.> >
> > S.Fatima> > > --- Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com>
> > wrote:> > > I will try to answer this question, > >
> > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends
> > or> > distant relatives come to your house & start
> > staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate
> > them> > permanently, they expect you to do
> > everything for> > them, they try to do away with
> > your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their
> > supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately they
> > ask you to leave your house &> > take refuge
> > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > liberal
> > in this case? Will you not try to protect> > the
> > rights of your wife/mother?> > Be honest & give me
> > the reply!> > > > These guests are outsiders and you
> > will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way
> > you are showing> > narrowmindedness but you can't do
> > without that.> > Because that is not in your
> > family's interest.> > > > Same thing is applicable
> > to your nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing
> > everything which is in the> > interest of your
> > country' (e.g killing terrorists in> > Kashmir or
> > flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or
> > Assam.)> > > > Still if you say that 'you are
> > neither a nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I am
> > sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to stay in
> > my country! > > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get
> > hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to
> >
>
> http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register
> >
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-- 
Rashneek Kher
http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com