[Reader-list] FW: FW: Guests in Vedavati's house
Pawan Durani
pawan.durani at gmail.com
Sat Aug 25 00:10:06 IST 2007
Dear Mr Roger Das ,
Does speaking in defence of RSS mean a crime . How can you ignore the role
RSS plays in social works.
As i believe you re from Mumbai check this link
http://hindurelief.blogspot.com/2005/09/rss-workduring-floods-in-mumbai-and.html
-
http://www.hindu.com/2004/12/27/stories/2004122713750300.htm
http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=145&page=30
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1945000,curpg-1.cms
Read More ----Know More
Rgds
Pawan Durani
On 8/24/07, roger das <rgdj12 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> There you are speaking like a true hundu fundamentalist who wants to make
> India hindu rashtra by blocking all the way of minority advancement by
> showing the excuse that some neightbour countries are creating trouble for
> hindus. So what even govt jobs do not offer lucrative careers the muslims
> shoudl represent it in good percentage to prove that India is secular not a
> hindu rashtra. Muslims are fighting for their representation in puclic
> machinery and they will continue this until and unless they make a wonderful
> percentage in this. BECAUSE they are also Indian and they have all the
> rights what majority Indians are now enjoying. Only thing is needed to mend
> it is the government should remove all the RSS minded people from high rank
> of govt organisations.
> I urge you to join this movement and become a secular Indian.
>
>
> Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: rgdj12 at yahoo.com;
> reader-list at sarai.netsubjectSubject: RE: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in
> Vedavati's houseDate: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 02:11:34 +0000
>
>
> in last 60 years india has been ruled by 'secular' parties only. i really
> wonder why these secular parties are recruiting fundamentalists?if muslims
> have proved their merit in it industries then on first place why are they
> running after govt. jobs which don't offer lucrative carrer.i would like
> to suggest people like you should go to pakistsn & bangladesh and see the
> condition of hindu minorities. still if you are not satisfied, then better
> you migrate to pakistan where 100% seats are researved for muslims. stop
> poisoning minds of people.
>
>
> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:22:53 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: RE:
> [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.com
> There are so many organisations naming them is not a solutions and as far
> s the merit of muslims candidates are concern then I must say that they are
> getting jobs in IT sector, private companies just on thier merit...but in
> government jobs and in organisations where there are hindu fundamentalists
> acting as recruiter Muslims have no place... as you are an hardcore RSS
> member go and ask their ideology.....you will get your answer....
>
> Vedavati Jogi wrote:
>
>
> again & again i am telling you, give me the names of those organizations.
> unlike govt. org. in private org. only merit counts if muslims can not
> compete with others how do you expect employers to absorb them just because
> they are muslims.?
>
>
> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:22:48 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: RE:
> [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.com
> There are so many muslims unemployed youth who were convent educated but
> failed to get job just because they are muslim and the recruiters are hindu
> fundamentalists, go n inquire i public sector as well as in private you wud
> come to know the ratio of muslims and hindus in employment. without any data
> dont shout praising the terrorist RSS people. If you find the data a flase
> propaganda then it is your lack of wisodn or knolwdge about your own country
> and the people who run reilgion politics...
>
> Pls be update before claiming your point......Vedavati Jogi wrote:
>
>
> 'The high ranker hindu fundamentalists closed all the doors for muslims
> aspirants in civil services, judicial system, in public sector, etc.
> Thereffore the demand for rservation and implementation of Sacchar committee
> is right step to recognise Muslim as Indian citizen.'
> ............................................................................................................this
> is absolutely a false propaganda. madarasa educated muslims cannot do well
> in competitive exam how can you blame hindoos for that? Abdul Hamid was the
> recipient of paramveer chakra, how can you say that he did not get
> recognition?..............................................................................................................'
> Muslim should send their children in regional or english medium shcools but
> the sad part is that the authority of these schools rejects muslims
> aplication citing reason that they wont be able to pay fees. Means they have
> no right in India to get admission in
> these
> schools.'.............................................................................................................
> this is again a false propaganda. give me the names of those schools i will
> go and question them.this is the way you socalled secularists poison the
> minds of muslims and you remain safe during riots while poor commonpeople
> from both the sides have to bear the brunt.
>
> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:32:57 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: Re:
> [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.comCC:
> reader-list at sarai.net
>
>
> Hello Vedavati,
>
> whatever points you have drawn here are nice but I would like to say that
> the RSS people who are in the high rank of Indian judicial, constitutional
> system have done blunder by erasing the contribution of Muslim freedom
> fighter. Abdul Hamid was never got his due as a major contributor during
> Pakistan war. without knowing the truth how can u say that Afzal Gurur was
> the main culprit behind Parliament Attack, even Professor Geelani was also
> arrested just because he was Kashmiri, but he fight the Indian judicial
> system and he comes clean, don't you think that Geelani should need Indians
> sympathy?
>
> As far as the history is concern I must correct you that it is RSS who
> changed the history randomly and the recently furing the BJP government they
> changed the history of Mahatma Gandhi's death. You talked about the 20
> million Hindus raped, killed and wounded duirng partition in 1947. But that
> would you say abuot the tens thousands of innocent Muslims had been burnt
> alive, raped, killed , cut into pieces in various part of India even today
> such as Bhagalpur,Mumbai, Gujarat, Calcutta, Delhi, and so on. The leader
> Modi, H.L. Bhagat, sajan Kumar, Advani, Singhal,Thakerey and the like
> ordered their men to wipe out the areas and vilages dominated by the Muslims
> in broad day light but still they are scotfree while the case agianst them
> gettting dates after dates in the court in order to save them.
> Muslims have all the right to demand justice against their killers. The
> high ranker hindu fundamentalists closed all the doors for muslims aspirants
> in civil services, judicial system, in public sector, etc. Thereffore the
> demand for rservation and implementation of Sacchar committee is right step
> to recognise Muslim as Indian citizen.
>
> you are right Muslim should send their children in regional or english
> medium shcools but the sad part is that the authority of these schools
> rejects muslims aplication citing reason that they wont be able to pay fees.
> Means they have no right in India to get admission in these schools. As far
> as the madrasa is concern it only teaches religious teachings and as a
> MUlsim they have the right to religion. why not you asked the sishu vihar or
> other RSS run schools to be closed where the education is based on hindu
> mythology leading the inocent children into darne ages.
>
> It is the RSS and BJP who plays religion politics. We all know how BJP
> comes into power in centre and how in states by inciting communcal violence.
> Dot forget to mention when Hindus become majority Gujarat, Mumbia, Bhagalpur
> happens time and again.
> you are true it is high time hindu fanatics should change thier views of
> making India a hindu rashtra, they cannot throw biggest minority out of the
> country. They shoud, give respect and equal opportunity to Muslims.
>
>
> Think and then say!
>
> Vedavati Jogi wrote:
> From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in;
> reader-list at sarai.netSubject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's houseDate: Mon, 20
> Aug 2007 04:52:10 +0000Sorry fatima, I could not get back to you earlier as
> I was not in town. I read your mail very carefully, I too would love to
> discuss certain issues with you as I am also interested in solutions.Ifully agree with you when you say that one must be tolerant & compassionate
> towards oneââ¬â¢s countrymen. An Indian irrespective of his race,
> religion & creed who loves India and who has national interest foremost in
> his mind is my brother/sister. I worship war martyres like Abdul Hamid. I
> love Rafi, Lata, Amitabh, Shahrukh, Sachin, Irfan, Sania etc. in equal
> measure. But when you say ââ¬Ëbeing patriotic is not the only
> solutionââ¬â¢ it surprises me, do you expect me to be tolerant towards
> person like Yasin malik?To prove oneââ¬â¢s secular credentials do you
> think it is necessary to sypathise with Afzal Guru only because
> he is a Muslim?Secondly you have said that majority of Muslims did not
> want to join Pakistan but they had to migrate to pakistan to escape
> violence. Here I beg to differ . This may be a ââ¬Ësecularââ¬â¢
> History written by Congress or Left parties. But real History tells
> something else. When Jinnah was a follower of Lokmanya Tilak and wanted to
> be known as ââ¬ËGokhaleââ¬â¢ of Muslim community, Muslims did not look
> upon him as their leader moreover he was sidelined even humiliated by
> Mahatma Gandhi who preffered to join hands with Ali brothers. ( This policy
> prevails even today ââ¬â A truly secular Muslim leader Arif Mohammad
> Khan is not acceptable to Muslims as well as Seculars )Its an unfortunate
> fact that when Jinnah became religious fanatic and demanded Pakistan Muslims
> wholeheartedly supported him without which Pakistan would not have been a
> reality. Jinnah alone could not have achieved it. But majority of Muslims
> stayed back in India because their daily
> bread & butter was here. You have mentioned the plight of many muslims who
> had to migrate to Pak only to suffer. But what about those 20 million
> Hindoos who were killed, wounded, raped & thrown out of Pakistan? One major
> difference was while in Pakistan even head of the state the then PM Liyakat
> Ali was encouraging & supporting his countrymen in wiping out Hindoos from
> Pak; here in India Mahatma stood between Muslims & Hindoos and protected the
> former with the help of his ultimate weapon ââ¬ËUpwasââ¬â¢ (which he
> had never dared to use against Muslims.)Fatima I donââ¬â¢t have anything
> against Muslims who stayed back in India. Plight of poor muslims and that of
> poor Hindoos is same. But if muslims have chosen to stay in India it is
> their resposibility to accept ââ¬ËUniform civil codeââ¬â¢ or
> ââ¬ËFamily planningââ¬â¢. It appears they can understand only their
> rights like reservations & implementation of Sacchar committee report. But
> with rights comes
> responsibility too. What is practised in India is not secularism, it is
> minoritism which is the mother of secessionism. Instead of sending their
> children to Madarrasa muslims should send their children to regional
> language or english medium schools. Secondly nobody has stopped them from
> giving equal rights to their female folks. To preserve their separate
> identity they donââ¬â¢t do that. And unfortunately this separatism gets
> political nourishment. Wherever muslims are in minority they are very
> demanding, and when they become majority community then
> ââ¬Ëpakistanââ¬â¢ happens, ââ¬Ëkashmirââ¬â¢ happensââ¬â¢. You
> may or may not accept it, but it is hightime muslims changed their ways. >
> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:26:03 +0100> From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in>
> Subject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com;
> reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want to indulge in any
> sweet goody-goody> principles nor ridicule your thoughts. I am
> honestly> interested in a dialogue for resolving issues. And I> would love
> to engage in a debate with you if we both> are interested in solutions. I
> feel that being> patriotic or nationalistic towards your homeland is> not
> the only solution. Being tolerant and> compassionate towards your fellow
> countrymen would be> more preferable.> > I said in my previous mail that I
> understand the pain> of all those who have been affected by the violence,>
> hatred and displacement, whether Hindus or Muslims.> Partition did not
> affect only the Hindus. Majority of> Muslims did not want Pakistan (this has
> been proven> historically), and had to migrate to escape the> violence. You
> may go and see the plight of many> migrated Muslims who left their home in
> India to go to> Pakistan - they still suffer. Both communities have> equally
> suffered, especially in Kashmir - do you agree> with me on that? If you tell
> me whether you agree or> disagree on this, we'll discuss it further. Let us
> use> this
> forum for a healthy debate rather than a> stone-pelting excercise. (And I
> take back any words> that may have hurt you.)> > S.F.> > --- Vedavati Jogi
> wrote:> > > > > it may appear childish but i can't help it.> > > > it is
> very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not> > with its true essence, i am
> talking about typical> > indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists> >
> when you are not at the receiving end. my husband> > being a kashmiri
> pundit, lost his ancestral property> > in shrinagar, many of his relatives
> are still> > staying in refugee camps, (and our secular leaders,> >
> filmwalas have not got time in last 18 years to> > visit those camps), two
> of his best friends were> > gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished'
> by> > the latter for being members of rss. (please don't> > say that he
> worshipped mahatma hence he killed the> > rss members.)> > and if we decide
> to apply same logic then hindus> > should also start killing members of
> muslim league> > because
> they partitioned our country. > > > > all you seculars who keep ridiculing
> my thoughts on> > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of> > kashmiri
> migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants> > who were advised by mahatma to
> go back to their> > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in> >
> pakistan.> > and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody> > principles> > >
> > vedavati> > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From:> >
> sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in> > Vedavati's house> To:
> vrjogi at hotmail.com;> > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't
> want> > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish> > to be taken
> seriously (although I don't> mean to> > demean children by saying that!).
> The complex>> > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like> > that.>
> Even if we could use this analogy, then, I> > think our> house has been so
> huge and so resourceful> > that it> didn't mind having a few guests from> >
> outside taking> refuge in it. And
> they didn't come> > as guests - they> came to do trade and business,> >
> just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go to> > America to becomes
> NRIs.> Now, once these> > "outsiders" decided to call it their> home, they
> are> > no longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or> > came from
> outside). As a matter of fact,> how can> > even you prove that you are an
> "insider". Just>> > because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now> >
> let's talk about the guests> taking over the house> > and asking the owners
> to leave.> Yes, if they do so,> > it is wrong. (But remember, no one> can
> claim to be> > the "original" resident of this house> - its been> > too damn
> long to argue on that). So, you> have no> > authority to ask Shuddha or me
> to leave the> country> > if we do not subscribe to the hollow words> called>
> > Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting> > on any specific case
> (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which> > I haven't seen). But in general, I>
> believe that the> >
> exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry> > affair, and if one has
> to find a long-term> solution> > to the Kashmir problem, it must involve
> the>> > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their>> > original homes.
> But at the same time, the brutality>> > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri
> Muslims at the> > hands> of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And> > if
> Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take sides,> > then it is> bound to lead
> to this kind of situation.> > Let us stop> taking sides and come to the
> middle> > ground if need to> resolve any of our conficts.> >> > S.Fatima>
> > > --- Vedavati Jogi > > wrote:> > > I will try to answer this question, >
> >> > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends> > or> > distant
> relatives come to your house & start> > staying> > with you, they expect you
> to accomodate> > them> > permanently, they expect you to do> > everything
> for> > them, they try to do away with> > your wife's/mother's> > authority &
> establish their>
> > supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately they> > ask you to leave
> your house &> > take refuge> > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> >
> liberal> > in this case? Will you not try to protect> > the> > rights of
> your wife/mother?> > Be honest & give me> > the reply!> > > > These guests
> are outsiders and you> > will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way>
> > you are showing> > narrowmindedness but you can't do> > without that.> >
> Because that is not in your> > family's interest.> > > > Same thing is
> applicable> > to your nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing> > everything
> which is in the> > interest of your> > country' ( e.g killing terrorists
> in> > Kashmir or> > flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or> >
> Assam.)> > > > Still if you say that 'you are> > neither a nationalist> >
> nor a patriot' then I am> > sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to
> stay in> > my country! > > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get> > hundreds of
> mails everyday? Delete
> none. Go to> >>
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