[Reader-list] gujrat election

Tue Dec 25 13:52:47 IST 2007

Dear Vedavati,

As an Indian first and a Hindu second, I want to point out a few flaws in
your argument.

1. Zainab or anyone for that matter has the right to practice any religion
they want and this right is granted by the constitution of our country. She
need not go anywhere as long as she lives by the laws of the land.

2. Yes, according to the media the riots were started by Muslims perhaps.
But how do you know that they were not ISI agents who did it on purpose
because their aim was to tear apart the social fabric that binds our
beautiful country.

3. About the role of Madrassa's I am going to keep quiet. I have heard too
many bad things about indoctrination in Madrassa's to support their
existence. Any organization which preaches hate and violence is unlawful and
a danger to society and should be eradicated. Of course I am sure there
exist good Madrassas as well which serve as they are supposed to.

4. The law should be the same for all. The law MUST be blind to religion. At
the same time the law MUST NOT interfere with freedom of choice.

5. I don't understand what you mean by the statement - "join hands with
them, join the mainstream for nation building."
    Many Muslims today live in fear. They are actively shunned by the
"mainstream" and castigated as desh-drohi and what not. This is absolute
crap (excuse my language). Stereotyping is a typical Indian thing to do -
irony in that statement! But just because of a few bad apples, don't say
apples are bad for health. If Praveen Togadia was shown to me as the
"representative" of Hindus then I would feel all Hindus are bloodthirsty
crazies. But that is not true! So there....

~Mohit

PS: This is my first post on this list. Please let me know if I have broken
any rules or not followed list-etiquette.

On Dec 25, 2007 12:12 PM, Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> my dear zainab,
>
> nobody has detained you here. if you don't find india a good place to live
> in you can anytime migrate to pakistan.
>
> muslims know how to complain, muslims know their rights well but they
> never understand their responsibilities.they never understand their own
> mistakes.
>
> (1)who had started 1992-93 riots? who first burnt karsevaks at godhra
> station?
> even after partitioning this country on religious basis muslims were
> allowed to stay in india, given equal rights rather more rights- was is not
> a magnonimity shown by hindus?
>
> id you reciprocate?
> did you allow your hindu brothers to build  ram temple at the place where
> babri structure once stood?
>
> if you too are the sons of this soil, why do you have to look upon babar
> and not ram as your ancestor? babar was an invader. and i don't think any
> country on this earth has ever taken pride for invader's deeds.
> (2)you know it very well that madarasa educated child cannot compete with
> other children who are trained in secular schools. moreover nobody has
> stopped muslims from sending their wards to govt. run schools.still you
> send your chidren to madarasa and then complain that they don't get jobs
> anywhere because they are muslims,.... hence 'sacchar'.... hence demand for
> reservations..!
>
> (3)if muslim women are the poorest of the poor then that is because of
> your own personal laws. why don't you accept uniform civil code?
>
> (4)there are many towering personalities in various fields in  india who
> are muslims and  are very much loved by hindus. they never faced any
> descrimination just because they are muslims, then why this 'false
> propaganda' which separates you from main stream? think over it if possible.
>
> (5)you have rightly pointed out that no action has been taken against
> those hindus who participated in 92-93 riots, and i am sure in future also
> nobody even sonia becomes pm, will dare to take action against hindu
> culprits because these politician do everything to garner votes. why muslim
> appeasement? not for the betterment of muslims but for the sake of votes.
> now hindu votebank has been created in gujrat so nobody will dare to take
> action against 2002 culprits.  this is politics!
>
> try to understand this. don't trust these politicians & seculars, instead
> trust your hindu brothers who are truely secualr if not provoked, join hands
> with them, join the mainstream for nation building.
>
> if you want muslim sentiments to be taken care of then try to care for
> hindu sentiments too.
>
> vedavati
>
>
>
>
> Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 10:45:46 +0530From: bawazainab79 at gmail.comTo:
> vrjogi at hotmail.comSubject: Re: FW: [Reader-list] gujrat electionCC:
> chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.netMy dear Vedavati,
> When you say "modi  does not 'reserve' seats  instead he talks about '5
> crore gujratis (including bc/obcs/muslims)' . he does not equate
> soharabuddin & common muslims, hence he does not hesitate to take stern
> action against the former because he knows  that will not hurt muslim
> sentiments anyway." I don't think there are any sentiments left after brutal
> rape, violence and torture. When the soul is killed and when you have to
> live in duress under a 'secular rule' where each day you are reminded that
> you 'are Muslim' (irrespective of whether that is your primary identity or
> not), you think there can be any sentiment or voice left? What do you have
> to say to the fact that all 'Muslims' who participated in the 1992-93 riots
> in Bombay were punished by the judiciary but no action was taken against the
> 'Hindus' who committed violences because Maharashtra government under amoeba
> Deshmukh felt that doing so will result in mass violence? I am sure this is
> a very peaceful and secular state to be in,one where even when there are no
> sentiments, they are assumed to be aligned.
> In peace,
> Zainab (gujju ben)
> On Dec 24, 2007 11:32 AM, Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> dear zainab, 'india is a secular country and will remain a secular country
> only because of majority community (that is hindus)'. otherwise 99% muslims
> who had voted for pakistan in 1947 would not have dared to stay  in india
> after partition. they chose to stay back because their daily bread & butter
> was here not because they were supporting 'secularism'.  congress too
> followed british policy of divide & rule after 1947. they gave reservations
> to bc, obcs, by reserving few thousands of seats they fooled crores of bcs &
> obcs and divided hindus.  there are many towering personalities from muslim
> community in india like dr. kalam, bismilla khan, zakir hussain, shahruhk,
> amir khan, irfan pathan, amjad ali and many more... all of them come from
> ordinary background and  are very very popular among hindus. still congress
> & left parties talked about descrimination, indirectly gave the slogan of
> 'islam khatareme hai' , showed carrot of 'suchhar' to muslims to keep their
> muslim vote bank intact.  they can't hang afzal guru because that might hurt
> muslim sentiments.  modi  does not 'reserve' seats  instead he talks about
> '5 crore gujratis (including bc/obcs/muslims)' . he does not equate
> soharabuddin & common muslims, hence he does not hesitate to take stern
> action against the former because he knows that will not hurt muslim
> sentiments anyway.  this secularism practised by congress & likes has always
> been at the expense of hindus. terrorists are attacking temples & trains
> still -congress is talking about 'liberalism', they create hue & cry when
> person like soharabuddin is killed. they have talked a lot about 'gujrat'
> killings what about 'kashmiri pundits'?  gujjubhais  have proved that
> hereafter hindus cannot be taken for granted.that is why it is their
> victory! vedavati
>
>
> Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:04:12 -0800From: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat electionTo: bawazainab79 at gmail.comCC:
> vrjogi at hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> You need to understand a simple thing - it is Hindus who are facing the
> problem of communalism on their own motherland..
> Narendra Modi is a strong Hindu supporter... And when I say Hindu, it is
> to be understand that the world Humanity is already enveloped in it..
> So, when Narendra Modi has won it is Hindus who have won.. in other words,
> it is humanity that has won..
>
> Muslims has yet to prove their nationalist approach..Muslims gather in big
> mass when there is anything related to their religion...
> But there is not a single movement by Muslims when Hindus get killed in
> Terrorist attacks...
> Muslims shout like anything for 2002 riot... But none has ever said a word
> about Nandigram, Kashmir or Achalpur (Oct 2007 riot)...
> Whenever Muslims will come on Road to declare that Terrorist are Muslims
> but not Quranic followers, whenver Muslims would do some roadshow to make
> the world realize that Terrorist and Muslim are two different set of
> people.. Whenever Muslim would oppose what is written on irf.net that all
> Muslims are terrorists and they should be proud of it.. Whenever Muslims
> will understand that crime is to be dealt with law and not religion.... THEN
> Narendra Modi's win would be all people's win...
>
> Don't you think that India is secular because it yet contains majority of
> Hindus... can you say Kashmir is secular.. we will soon know West Bengal
> becoming another Kashmir..
> Why is that wherever Muslims exists (and if there is no strict law to
> handle them)..there is killing, hatred and voilence...
>
> Muslims have to rethink on their learnings of Quran... Declaring Quran as
> words of God and then putting killing into action in the name of same God is
> not justifiable.. For hundreds of years this is what is happening through
> our Muslims brothers... It is they who have intruded in the nation of
> Hindus, Hindus have not gone into Arabia to indulge into what they used to
> do there....  Yet, Hindus call them brothers...  The day Muslim will start
> calling Hindus as brothers... the day Muslims would start respecting the
> mother (cow) of their brothers.. the Muslim would join the festivals of
> their brothers...  the secularism would meet its meaning....
>
> Muslims have to realize that 2002 riot would not have taken place, had
> Godhra would not have taken place...
> Muslims have to realize that Vande Matram and Jai Hind is what is expected
> from their month....
>
> I hope I am clear on why Hindus believe Narendra Modi's win is Hindus
> win...
>
> Jai Hind,
>
> ----- Original Message ----From: Zainab Bawa <bawazainab79 at gmail.com>To:
> TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>Cc: reader-list at sarai.net; Vedavati
> Jogi < vrjogi at hotmail.com>Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 8:34:38
> AMSubject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat electionHi Vedavati,Thanks for the
> forceful clarification. I am still a bit unclearas to why Modi's victory is
> a victory for Hindus? as for formation of Hindu votebanks, there are several
> of them across the country and as you yourselfhave accepted that just as all
> Gujjus are not Hindus, so also all Hindus arenot Hindus.I really apologize
> for my dimwitedness and my inability to understand your claim that Modi's
> victory is a victory for Hindus. Are you suggesting thatModi's victory is
> now a step ahead in the formation of 'Hindustan'?Again, apologies for
> nagging you.Cheers,Zainab (confused gujju ben) On Dec 24, 2007 1:30 AM,
> TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:> Isn't it rather a defeat of
> Hindu forces? Ask Praveen Togadia. Ask the > RSS members discontented with
> Modi. Ask the guy giving Modi "Brahmin ka> shaap" for getting his son
> murdered. Will another Hindu terrorist Advani> be> happy with the results?
> Is Uma Bharati pseudo secular or pseudo communal > for> floating her own
> party against BJP?> The fight in Gujarat was a fight between Hindus and
> Hindus if Hindus have> won, Hindus have> lost too. So your victory gets
> canceled. Evil wins and evil loses. > May be you will be more careful before
> putting your foot in to your mouth> next time.>> ----- Original Message
> -----> From: "Vedavati Jogi" < vrjogi at hotmail.com>> To: <
> reader-list at sarai.net>; <tapasrayx at gmail.com>> Sent: Sunday, December 23,
> 2007 12:20 AM > Subject: [Reader-list] gujrat election>>> >> >> >> >> >
> whether it is a victory for bjp or for modi....its a  useless question.> >
> its a victory for hindus. and i hope it will be an eye opener for psudo > >
> seculars!> >> > you can't always divide hindus & rule. thank you gujjubhais
> for showing> > the world that when hindus unite, hindu vote bank too can be
> formed!> > > > vedavati> >> >> >
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-- 
-Mohit Thatte
"*Smart one-liner goes here*"