[Reader-list] gujrat election

[TaraPrakash]

> Even though I feel like agreeing with you, (not completely), I must state 
> that you are eluding the context. I was replying to someone who reduces 
> politics, perhaps everything in India, in to Hindu/ Muslim binarity. I was 
> just suggesting that if being uncomfortable with the country and leaving 
> it for some other country were related, Hindus are more at fault. I hate 
> homogenizing, but what if the person you are responding to does not 
> understand any other language! Unfortunately, you too in your mail used 
> the political binary opposition between, what can be roughly called, left 
> and right of the Indian political system.
> Well, I don't have to mention the dangers of binary opposition which are 
> obviously clear to this profound lisst.
> But I feel like quoting Kabir and hee is so relevant today and surely will 
> remain so in the future.
> Chalti chakki dekh ke
> Diya Kabira roy
> Do patan ke bich mein
> Sabut bacha na koy.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <radhikarajen at vsnl.net>
> To: "TaraPrakash" <taraprakash at gmail.com>
> Cc: <Readers-list at sarai.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 3:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat election
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>   Taraprakash,
>>    be whereevr you are comfortable, but think a moment, with kickbacks 
>> haunting the leaders, that too comrade leaders from salim group of 
>> Indonesia,subscription payers as worker comrades leaving for better 
>> leaders who do not live on their subscriptions, it is time for the 
>> politburo to be introspect whether they are with idealogy of equity and 
>> justice as enunciated by Karl marx or have they lost them.Even the fake 
>> ration cards and ids given to refugees of bangaldesh developed as vote 
>> banks have ubderstood the game plan of left parties and the fort is 
>> crumbling as the intellectuals who all along supported the intelligent in 
>> left are also aghast at the brutal means used to suppress dissent in the 
>> ranks using cadres for the rape and killing.Left parties which had 
>> dedicated cadres to the idealogy are today dedicated to politburo goons 
>> and the very reason the Communist party of India split into CPM, CPI and 
>> Marxist-leninist parties is well known as the ego clash of leaders to be
>> in the loot of subscription of toiling comrade workers. As to vaghela or 
>> Uma or all those who leave for greener pastures, it is no different in 
>> left parties also, as the leader is foisted by  a bunch of motley crowd 
>> going by the name of politburo. So, be aware of what your thoughts are 
>> leading to as the very idealogy is now hijacked by these  goons in 
>> politburo of all the different factions of LEFT.
>>  Regards.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 9:02 pm
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat election
>> To: Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com>, bawazainab79 at gmail.com, 
>> chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com, reader-list at sarai.net
>>
>>> Why Pakistan? People have migrated to African countries, West
>>> Indese,
>>> European countries, North American countries, South East Asian
>>> countries and
>>> so many other nooks and corners of the world to get rid of your
>>> beloved
>>> country. Are they all Muslims? If you yourself are not already
>>> abroad at the
>>> moment, will not waste a second thought as soon as the opportunity
>>> comes
>>> your way. So the majority of those who migrate, which religion
>>> they are?
>>> Bharat mata ki jai.
>>> On the other hand just consider the loving Hindus of Gujarat when
>>> they were
>>> fighting with their hindu Maratha brothers, and slogan "Su che
>>> saru che
>>> Joota le ke maru che" became infamous. Violence was the order of
>>> the day and
>>> Muslims had no role to play in it. You must be another supporter
>>> of Shiv
>>> Sena for their anti muslim rhetoric and for their pseudo patriotic
>>> sentiments. How do you reconcile with their demand for non
>>> marathas to leave
>>> Mumbai? Do they want only Muslims to go away?
>>> Who will unite Hindus? Those who you think can do it are
>>> themselves divided
>>> and after each other's blood just for the sake of the power. If I
>>> want to
>>> join your camp who should I support Uma Bharati who brought BJP in
>>> to power
>>> in MP with her hard core hindutva rhetoric and then left the party
>>> or Advani
>>> who started rath yatra and polarized the voters, and had been
>>> dropping hints
>>> that he should be the PM rather than ABV in unlikely event of BJP
>>> being
>>> voted back to power? Has VHP fofrgiven Advani for calling Jinna
>>> secular? The
>>> leadership of which RSS wing should I accept one who supports
>>> Modi? Vaghela?
>>> Mehta? Maya Vati?
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Vedavati Jogi" <vrjogi at hotmail.com>
>>> To: <bawazainab79 at gmail.com>; <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>;
>>> <reader-list at sarai.net>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 1:42 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat election
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > my dear zainab,
>>> >
>>> > nobody has detained you here. if you don't find india a good
>>> place to live
>>> > in you can anytime migrate to pakistan.
>>> >
>>> > muslims know how to complain, muslims know their rights well but
>>> they
>>> > never understand their responsibilities.they never understand
>>> their own
>>> > mistakes.
>>> >
>>> > (1)who had started 1992-93 riots? who first burnt karsevaks at
>>> godhra
>>> > station?
>>> > even after partitioning this country on religious basis muslims
>>> were
>>> > allowed to stay in india, given equal rights rather more rights-
>>> was is
>>> > not a magnonimity shown by hindus?
>>> >
>>> > id you reciprocate?
>>> > did you allow your hindu brothers to build  ram temple at the
>>> place where
>>> > babri structure once stood?
>>> >
>>> > if you too are the sons of this soil, why do you have to look
>>> upon babar
>>> > and not ram as your ancestor? babar was an invader. and i don't
>>> think any
>>> > country on this earth has ever taken pride for invader's deeds.
>>> > (2)you know it very well that madarasa educated child cannot
>>> compete with
>>> > other children who are trained in secular schools. moreover
>>> nobody has
>>> > stopped muslims from sending their wards to govt. run
>>> schools.still you
>>> > send your chidren to madarasa and then complain that they don't
>>> get jobs
>>> > anywhere because they are muslims,.... hence 'sacchar'.... hence
>>> demand
>>> > for reservations..!
>>> >
>>> > (3)if muslim women are the poorest of the poor then that is
>>> because of
>>> > your own personal laws. why don't you accept uniform civil code?
>>> >
>>> > (4)there are many towering personalities in various fields in
>>> india who
>>> > are muslims and  are very much loved by hindus. they never faced
>>> any
>>> > descrimination just because they are muslims, then why this
>>> 'false
>>> > propaganda' which separates you from main stream? think over it
>>> if
>>> > possible.
>>> >
>>> > (5)you have rightly pointed out that no action has been taken
>>> against
>>> > those hindus who participated in 92-93 riots, and i am sure in
>>> future also
>>> > nobody even sonia becomes pm, will dare to take action against
>>> hindu
>>> > culprits because these politician do everything to garner votes.
>>> why
>>> > muslim appeasement? not for the betterment of muslims but for
>>> the sake of
>>> > votes. now hindu votebank has been created in gujrat so nobody
>>> will dare
>>> > to take action against 2002 culprits.  this is politics!
>>> >
>>> > try to understand this. don't trust these politicians &
>>> seculars, instead
>>> > trust your hindu brothers who are truely secualr if not
>>> provoked, join
>>> > hands with them, join the mainstream for nation building.
>>> >
>>> > if you want muslim sentiments to be taken care of then try to
>>> care for
>>> > hindu sentiments too.
>>> >
>>> > vedavati
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 10:45:46 +0530From:
>>> bawazainab79 at gmail.comTo:
>>> > vrjogi at hotmail.comSubject: Re: FW: [Reader-list] gujrat
>>> electionCC:
>>> > chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.netMy dear Vedavati,
>>> > When you say "modi  does not 'reserve' seats  instead he talks
>>> about '5
>>> > crore gujratis (including bc/obcs/muslims)' . he does not equate
>>> > soharabuddin & common muslims, hence he does not hesitate to
>>> take stern
>>> > action against the former because he knows  that will not hurt
>>> muslim
>>> > sentiments anyway." I don't think there are any sentiments left
>>> after
>>> > brutal rape, violence and torture. When the soul is killed and
>>> when you
>>> > have to live in duress under a 'secular rule' where each day you
>>> are
>>> > reminded that you 'are Muslim' (irrespective of whether that is
>>> your
>>> > primary identity or not), you think there can be any sentiment
>>> or voice
>>> > left? What do you have to say to the fact that all 'Muslims' who
>>> > participated in the 1992-93 riots in Bombay were punished by the
>>> judiciary
>>> > but no action was taken against the 'Hindus' who committed
>>> violences
>>> > because Maharashtra government under amoeba Deshmukh felt that
>>> doing so
>>> > will result in mass violence? I am sure this is a very peaceful
>>> and
>>> > secular state to be in,one where even when there are no
>>> sentiments, they
>>> > are assumed to be aligned.
>>> > In peace,
>>> > Zainab (gujju ben)
>>> > On Dec 24, 2007 11:32 AM, Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > dear zainab, 'india is a secular country and will remain a
>>> secular country
>>> > only because of majority community (that is hindus)'. otherwise
>>> 99%
>>> > muslims who had voted for pakistan in 1947 would not have dared
>>> to stay
>>> > in india after partition. they chose to stay back because their
>>> daily
>>> > bread & butter was here not because they were supporting
>>> 'secularism'.
>>> > congress too followed british policy of divide & rule after
>>> 1947. they
>>> > gave reservations to bc, obcs, by reserving few thousands of
>>> seats they
>>> > fooled crores of bcs & obcs and divided hindus.  there are many
>>> towering
>>> > personalities from muslim community in india like dr. kalam,
>>> bismilla
>>> > khan, zakir hussain, shahruhk, amir khan, irfan pathan, amjad
>>> ali and many
>>> > more... all of them come from ordinary background and  are very
>>> very
>>> > popular among hindus. still congress & left parties talked about
>>> > descrimination, indirectly gave the slogan of 'islam khatareme
>>> hai' ,
>>> > showed carrot of 'suchhar' to muslims to keep their muslim vote
>>> bank
>>> > intact.  they can't hang afzal guru because that might hurt
>>> muslim
>>> > sentiments.  modi  does not 'reserve' seats  instead he talks
>>> about '5
>>> > crore gujratis (including bc/obcs/muslims)' . he does not equate
>>> > soharabuddin & common muslims, hence he does not hesitate to
>>> take stern
>>> > action against the former because he knows that will not hurt
>>> muslim
>>> > sentiments anyway.  this secularism practised by congress &
>>> likes has
>>> > always been at the expense of hindus. terrorists are attacking
>>> temples &
>>> > trains still -congress is talking about 'liberalism', they
>>> create hue &
>>> > cry when person like soharabuddin is killed. they have talked a
>>> lot about
>>> > 'gujrat' killings what about 'kashmiri pundits'?  gujjubhais
>>> have proved
>>> > that hereafter hindus cannot be taken for granted.that is why it
>>> is their
>>> > victory! vedavati
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:04:12 -0800From:
>>> chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat
>>> electionTo: bawazainab79 at gmail.comCC:
>>> > vrjogi at hotmail.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > You need to understand a simple thing - it is Hindus who are
>>> facing the
>>> > problem of communalism on their own motherland..
>>> > Narendra Modi is a strong Hindu supporter... And when I say
>>> Hindu, it is
>>> > to be understand that the world Humanity is already enveloped in
>>> it..> So, when Narendra Modi has won it is Hindus who have won..
>>> in other words,
>>> > it is humanity that has won..
>>> >
>>> > Muslims has yet to prove their nationalist approach..Muslims
>>> gather in big
>>> > mass when there is anything related to their religion...
>>> > But there is not a single movement by Muslims when Hindus get
>>> killed in
>>> > Terrorist attacks...
>>> > Muslims shout like anything for 2002 riot... But none has ever
>>> said a word
>>> > about Nandigram, Kashmir or Achalpur (Oct 2007 riot)...
>>> > Whenever Muslims will come on Road to declare that Terrorist are
>>> Muslims
>>> > but not Quranic followers, whenver Muslims would do some
>>> roadshow to make
>>> > the world realize that Terrorist and Muslim are two different
>>> set of
>>> > people.. Whenever Muslim would oppose what is written on irf.net
>>> that all
>>> > Muslims are terrorists and they should be proud of it.. Whenever
>>> Muslims
>>> > will understand that crime is to be dealt with law and not
>>> religion....
>>> > THEN Narendra Modi's win would be all people's win...
>>> >
>>> > Don't you think that India is secular because it yet contains
>>> majority of
>>> > Hindus... can you say Kashmir is secular.. we will soon know
>>> West Bengal
>>> > becoming another Kashmir..
>>> > Why is that wherever Muslims exists (and if there is no strict
>>> law to
>>> > handle them)..there is killing, hatred and voilence...
>>> >
>>> > Muslims have to rethink on their learnings of Quran... Declaring
>>> Quran as
>>> > words of God and then putting killing into action in the name of
>>> same God
>>> > is not justifiable.. For hundreds of years this is what is
>>> happening
>>> > through our Muslims brothers... It is they who have intruded in
>>> the nation
>>> > of Hindus, Hindus have not gone into Arabia to indulge into what
>>> they used
>>> > to do there....  Yet, Hindus call them brothers...  The day
>>> Muslim will
>>> > start calling Hindus as brothers... the day Muslims would start
>>> respecting
>>> > the mother (cow) of their brothers.. the Muslim would join the
>>> festivals
>>> > of their brothers...  the secularism would meet its meaning....
>>> >
>>> > Muslims have to realize that 2002 riot would not have taken
>>> place, had
>>> > Godhra would not have taken place...
>>> > Muslims have to realize that Vande Matram and Jai Hind is what
>>> is expected
>>> > from their month....
>>> >
>>> > I hope I am clear on why Hindus believe Narendra Modi's win is
>>> Hindus
>>> > win...
>>> >
>>> > Jai Hind,
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message ----From: Zainab Bawa
>>> <bawazainab79 at gmail.com>To:
>>> > TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>Cc: reader-list at sarai.net;
>>> Vedavati
>>> > Jogi < vrjogi at hotmail.com>Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007
>>> 8:34:38
>>> > AMSubject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat electionHi Vedavati,Thanks
>>> for the
>>> > forceful clarification. I am still a bit unclearas to why Modi's
>>> victory
>>> > is a victory for Hindus? as for formation of Hindu votebanks,
>>> there are
>>> > several of them across the country and as you yourselfhave
>>> accepted that
>>> > just as all Gujjus are not Hindus, so also all Hindus arenot
>>> Hindus.I
>>> > really apologize for my dimwitedness and my inability to
>>> understand your
>>> > claim that Modi's victory is a victory for Hindus. Are you
>>> suggesting
>>> > thatModi's victory is now a step ahead in the formation of
>>> > 'Hindustan'?Again, apologies for nagging you.Cheers,Zainab
>>> (confused gujju
>>> > ben) On Dec 24, 2007 1:30 AM, TaraPrakash
>>> <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:>
>>> > Isn't it rather a defeat of Hindu forces? Ask Praveen Togadia.
>>> Ask the >
>>> > RSS members discontented with Modi. Ask the guy giving Modi
>>> "Brahmin ka>
>>> > shaap" for getting his son murdered. Will another Hindu
>>> terrorist Advani>
>>> > be> happy with the results? Is Uma Bharati pseudo secular or
>>> pseudo
>>> > communal > for> floating her own party against BJP?> The fight
>>> in Gujarat
>>> > was a fight between Hindus and Hindus if Hindus have> won,
>>> Hindus have>
>>> > lost too. So your victory gets canceled. Evil wins and evil
>>> loses. > May
>>> > be you will be more careful before putting your foot in to your
>>> mouth>
>>> > next time.>> ----- Original Message -----> From: "Vedavati Jogi"
>>> <
>>> > vrjogi at hotmail.com>> To: <reader-list at sarai.net>;
>>> <tapasrayx at gmail.com>>
>>> > Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 12:20 AM > Subject: [Reader-
>>> list] gujrat
>>> > election>>> >> >> >> >> > whether it is a victory for bjp or for
>>> > modi....its a  useless question.> > its a victory for hindus.
>>> and i hope
>>> > it will be an eye opener for psudo > > seculars!> >> > you can't
>>> always
>>> > divide hindus & rule. thank you gujjubhais for showing> > the
>>> world that
>>> > when hindus unite, hindu vote bank too can be formed!> > > >
>>> vedavati> >>
>>> >  >> >
>>> _________________________________________________________________> >
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>>
>>
>