[Reader-list] Fwd :François Gautier does it again

Fri Jun 15 13:39:26 IST 2007

You have just now given me the pseudo-secularist argument. Well,I am not
here to change your mind, but to express my point of view. You seem to
consider religion as a natural entity, as just something one is born
with. There is another side to religion, which is social practice, in which
the entire debate on Hussain's representation falls for me. If I have given
you the impression that I 'hate' other religions, you have replied too
hastily. I mentioned that I was not posing an ideological difference.

In any case, I have made my point, I would just like to hear from now on.

Thanks,
Aishwarya

On 6/15/07, kaiwan mehta <kaiwanmehta at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> To begin with let me clarify that I write this mail in a reactionary mode,
> but would have rather liked to give a more comprehensive and planned
> response. But it was necesary that I respond immediately to this thread.
>
> Dear Aishwarya
>
> We do not have time for your petty remarks like 'your religion' and 'my
> relligion'. What do you mean by "Would he have represented his own religion
> in this manner?".
>
> If you have an intelligent argument to make, please by all means go ahead,
> we can all partcipate. But if a conversation starts with an indication of
> water-tight compartments that we are essentially expected to occupy just by
> default of our birth, then there is no room for conversation.
> Does my birth crucially define all my traits?
> Is it not possible for my education, working space, media, etc. to
> influence my traits acquired through my upbringing within my family and
> home?
> Why is it expected that 'another man's religion' is essentially poison for
> me? (Which is implied in your question to Hussain regarding 'his religion')
> Do we not struggle often to fight not one but many traits we acquire from
> family, school, etc. but do not believe in some time later in life?
> And all these questions I ask taking on from your presumption that family
> and religion of birth essentially make us 'haters of others' and 'respect
> only the self'. This is sheer disrespect for those many many families that
> may have actually struggled to give a liberal upbringing to their kids in
> these times pressured by fundamentalism.
>
> In this quick mailer I am unable to expand on my questions further, but
> there are many such questions that need to be asked.
>
> FATIMA rightly points out at the possibility of locating the problem in
> another line of argument, rather than indulging in petty quabbling of 'mine'
> and 'yours'.
>
> The Reader List is a space that allows for freedom of expression - Let me
> ask you Aishwaria did you consult your sister 'responsibility' before
> posting your un-researched, un-validated views on this platform that gave
> you the space for free expression???
>
> Thanks
> Kaiwan
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/15/07, S Fatima <sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Aishwarya
> > Hussain may or may not have indulged in a hypocracy
> > (about not portraying his own religious icons), but I
> > think the greater hypocracy of most artists (including
> > Rushdie) is to disconnect from the people/masses who
> > ultimately oppose their "blasphemous" art. Our artists
> > makes billions of dollars selling their paintings to
> > the elite, but never make an effort to spread
> > awareness among the masses about what their art is all
> > about, or why do they paint a deity in the nude. They
> > just assume that if the people do not appreciate their
> > art, it is people's fault, not the artist's. If our
> > education system had taught us how to appreciate good
> > art, how to read a painting, we probably would have
> > less of incidents such as the recent one at Baroda art
> > college. It is the elite of this country that is
> > mostly responsible for the growing intolerence among
> > the people. Husain or Rushdie or Tasleema Nasreen are
> > not hiding in foreign lands because of a threat to
> > their lives, but because they can't come to the street
> > to explian why they wrote or painted what they did.
> >
> >
> > --- Aishwarya Iyer <aisiyer at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On the other hand, I totally stand by François
> > > Gautier's view of Hussain's
> > > hypocrisy. Would he have represented his own
> > > religion in this manner?
> > > Freedom is not an absolute entity. Freedom must
> > > recognise its sister,
> > > responsibilty. Look at what Rushdie did for
> > > instance, and invited the fatwa
> > > upon himself. He was conscious of his own
> > > transgression, but Hussain did it
> > > for cheap thrills.
> > >
> > > It is interesting how one can unwittingly fall in a
> > > trap.
> > >
> > > Aishwarya
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/12/07, inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It is very interesting to see how one can
> > > unwittinlgly fall in a trap...
> > > >
> > > > You begin to criticize the politicians for all the
> > > ills in India...
> > > > and also highlight the fact that they are terrible
> > > manipulators...
> > > > fine.... but suddenly you criticize the aritsts
> > > choice for being
> > > > creative.... and forget the the fact that the
> > > politicians are ther
> > > > real culprits...( if they only are )
> > > >
> > > > for Hussain ( whether he is a genius or not ) i
> > > can quote Salman Rushdie
> > > > for you
> > > >
> > > > There is no Freedom of Expression if it does not
> > > provoke, it is
> > > > meaningless...
> > > >
> > > > with love
> > > > indersalim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Democracy Hijacked
> > > >
> > > > François Gautier
> > > >
> > > > Practitioners of cynical politics who are driven
> > > by
> > > > the lust for power are destroying all that is good
> > > and
> > > > true and valuable in India . Hindus are mocked at
> > > and
> > > > persecuted while Government is busy devising ways
> > > and
> > > > means of dividing the nation along caste and
> > > communal
> > > > lines
> > > >
> > > > India prides itself as the greatest democracy in
> > > the
> > > > world. But actually, there are very few places
> > > where
> > > > democracy has been so hijacked and perverted.
> > > Nothing
> > > > demonstrates this better than the manoeuvring
> > > going on
> > > > at the moment to find India 's next President.
> > > >
> > > > President APJ Abdul Kalam must be the most popular
> > > > President in the history of India . Yet he will
> > > not be
> > > > re-elected, because he was the people's President
> > > and
> > > > not a stooge of political parties.
> > > >
> > > > Congress president Sonia Gandhi will never forgive
> > > > him, as he was the one who stopped her from
> > > becoming
> > > > Prime Minister when he told her in the privacy of
> > > his
> > > > chambers that it was unconstitutional to hold two
> > > > passports - Indian and Italian - as she did for
> > > many
> > > > years (she is not the only foreigner who did so
> > > after
> > > > obtaining Indian citizenship).
> > > >
> > > > Quite a few Muslims regard him suspiciously
> > > because,
> > > > although he is a true Muslim, he respects other
> > > > religions and is known to keep the Bhagvad Gita
> > > and
> > > > Sri Aurobindo's Savitri in his study. Thus
> > > Mayawati,
> > > > partly elected by Muslims votes, will keep away
> > > from
> > > > him. And the BJP is wary of Kalam because he did
> > > not
> > > > always do its bidding.
> > > >
> > > > How else is democracy perverted in India ?
> > > >
> > > > Well, here you have a party, the Congress, which
> > > has
> > > > been going from bad to worse in the last 15 years,
> > > > came a miserable last in the recent Uttar Pradesh
> > > > Assembly election, and sprung to power at the
> > > Centre
> > > > by a freak accident because the TDP lost in Andhra
> > > > Pradesh and the Marxists did well in West Bengal .
> > > >
> > > > Yet, the Congress is all powerful at the moment
> > > and is
> > > > dividing India more and more along caste and
> > > religion
> > > > lines, thanks to a cynical reservation policy -
> > > > witness the recent strife in Rajasthan.
> > > >
> > > > You have a foreigner who, whatever her qualities
> > > > -honesty, hard work, family values - is just an
> > > > elected MP, like hundreds of others, and yet rules
> > > as
> > > > the supreme leader of this country, one whose word
> > > can
> > > > make or unmake anybody. Do you think it would be
> > > > possible for an Indian to become a de facto
> > > President
> > > > or Prime Minister in the US , France or Germany ?
> > > > Absolutely not!
> > > >
> > > > Even India 's Prime Minister, a decent but weak
> > > man,
> > > > is not elected: He was defeated the last time he
> > > > contested an election and is now a Rajya Sabha MP
> > > from
> > > > Assam , where he has no roots at all.
> > > >
> > > > Democracy in India has also been hijacked by
> > > cynical
> > > > mathematics: How to get elected with the votes of
> > > the
> > > > Muslims; who remain the most backward community in
> > > > India, in spite of having brought to power umpteen
> > > > Congress Governments since Independence; and how
> > > to
> > > > manipulate the Dalits, who have had a fair share
> > > of
> > > > benefits and have had one of them as President and
> > > > many of whom are politicians in power.
> > > >
> > > > Ms Mayawati has become a master of cynical
> > > > mathematics: Muslims + Dalits + Brahmin votes =
> > > > Absolute majority. Yet, will she do more for the
> > > > Muslims and the poor of Uttar Pradesh than she did
> > > in
> > > > her three previous stints as Chief Minister?
> > > >
> > > > It seems doubtful, the way she has started,
> > > wasting
> > > > hundreds of crores by scrapping all previous
> > > projects,
> > > > including the Special Economic Zones and
> > > transferring
> > > > hundreds of officials.
> > > >
> > > > In the name of freedom of expression, Indian
> > > > intellectuals defend people like MF Husain, who
> > > > denigrates Durga , India 's most holy goddess.
> > > Would
> > > > he dare depict Mohammed's wife in this manner?
> > > > Certainly not!
> > > >
> > > > When the Prophet is caricatured by a Danish
> > > newspaper
> > > > - harmless lampooning compared to Husain's
> > > derogatory
> > > > portrayal of Durga - the entire Muslim world
> > > erupts in
> > > > flames. Had Husain defiled Islam's icons, he would
> > > > have been dead today.
> > > >
> > > > Did India 's 'free' Press ever care to show on TV
> > > or
> > > > publish in magazines and newspapers Husain's
> > > > derogatory paintings? Yet, they are freely
> > > available
> > > > and have been reproduced in a coffee table book
> > > > sponsored by Tata Steel with a foreword by Russi
> > > Modi.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > India's judiciary is stretched to the limits by
> > > clever
> > > > lawyers getting their rich clients off the hook,
> > > > thanks to judges who go by the book without
> > > adapting
> > >
> > === message truncated ===>
> > _________________________________________
> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and
> > > the city.
> > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > To subscribe: send an email to
> > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the
> > > subject header.
> > > To unsubscribe:
> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > > List archive:
> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >
> >
> >
> >      Looking for people who are YOUR TYPE? Find them at
> > in.groups.yahoo.com
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/attachments/20070615/27cbeffc/attachment.html 