[Reader-list] shuddhabratas response]

[Tapas Ray]

Shuddha,

I would love to know where those quotes are from.

You really do take the cake, though not in the way someone ... I think it 
was Emma D (or was it E or F?) ... said you did. That is a most enjoyable 
post, and not the least because of the inside stuff from Shobhabajar. (For 
those who are not familiar with Calcutta, Shobhabajar is the metro railway 
stop at which one would have to get off if one wanted to meet Shuddha's 
dignified pimps, for whatever purpose.)

... I can hear some people hiss on the sidelines: "See! The Bong 
pseudosecularist starts drooling the moment someone says "pimp"!"

Having said that, I must take issue with you for appropriating all the 
pimply (I mean pimp-ly, not zitty) dignity for us Bongs. Going by his name, 
Gomes could very well be an Anglo-Indian or Goanese individual. If that were 
indeed the case, pimps of the Anglo-Indian community or those from the 
Konkan coast (that's where Goa is, isn't it?), as the case might be, would 
be justified in feeling aggrieved. We wouldn't want to hurt their feelings, 
would we?

In case anyone has any doubts about my motive for standing up for 
Anglo-Indian and Konkanese pimps, let me confess that I just want to 
demonstrate my broadmindedness (not in the sense in which "BM couples" or 
"broadminded couples" are said to do). This comes naturally to 
pseudosecularists who wear their pseudosecularism and assorted liberalisms 
on their sleeves.

Tapas


> Dear Emma, Iram, Rahul, Tapas, Anjalika, Dinesh, Aman (and everyone else)
>
> Now this is really getting interesting. :)
>
> In fact far more interesting than what was going on when Vedavati and
> Abhik were trading charges.
>
> The question of dignity is actually worth a real discussion, so maybe we
> could get down to it one of these days, and while we are at it we should
> also talk about robustly multi-coloured categories such as humiliation.
>
> I am in complete agreement with Emma D when she says that "even pimps
> have more dignity than certain bong men" and I am including myself in
> the category of the bong man, once more, in agreement with her when she
> ends the above statement by saying 'like shuddha'.
>
> One cannot escape what in bengali we call 'bongshodosh' (the misfortune
> of our descent, to which I could add the curse, or mixed blessing, or
> 'bad luck hi kharab hai' - of one's gonads, though it appears that
> surgery and modern medicine bring hope to many, especially to those
> nominally XY chromosomed individuals made melancholic by the misfortune
> of inappropriate gendering)
>
> So, some pimps have a great deal of dignity. Certainly.
>
> But let's make things a little more precise and complicated at the same
> time. Some bong men (not all, some) may have as much dignity as your
> common or garden pimp, and an insignificant few may in fact have more
> dignity than the average pimp. It's incredible, I know, but it has been
> known to happen. I have in fact met one or two incredibly dignified,
> refined, erudite, and slightly mad, very sad, bong men in my life. (And
> none of them are now or ever have been, relatives of mine. Dignity is
> probably a recessive gene in the case of my extended lineage and kinship
> network.)
>
> This is also further complicated by the fact that there are several
> pimps who also happen to be bong men. I mean, you dont even need to
> stroll down Shonagachi to know that gentlemen who might answer to names
> such as 'Tokai','Jhonta' 'Deb-dulal', 'Mortaza moshai' 'Gomes' and 'Boro
> Photik' are bong, men and pimps. They smell of kashundi, parshey maacch
> and make their money as only they know best. Some, maybe, such as
> Deb-dulal, Mortaza Moshai, Gomes, and Boro Photik are honourable and
> dignified pimps, 'oder baajaare naam-daak acchey', others, such as Tokai
> and Jhonta are what we would call 'cchoto-lpk, raskel (rascal) and luj
> (loose) character'. Mairi bolcchi, Dignity comes striated, even when it
> visits pimps.
>
> It is not yet established as to whether all bong women have as much
> dignity as pimps or bong men. It is also not yet known as to whether
> bong women who pimp retain as much dignity as others who don't, and
> other men who do. This is a matter of ongoing investigation. Being a
> bong man, I am possesed about an ontological certainty about myself and
> others like me. But I cannot speak with any certainty about bong women.
> Perhaps the bong women on this list might like to undertake their own
> self-reflexive auto-critique.
>
> But let me not stray. Once again, some women sex workers in genteel semi
> retirement who do not get to the position of being the 'madam' or
> 'mashi' sometimes have to make do with being 'ejent (agent)' or 'didi'
> or dalal, or pimp. This happens, and some, who might be called 'Komola',
> or 'Mrinmoyee' (Minu) or 'Fatema-bi', or 'Agnes' might be actually women
> possessed of great honour and dignity. On the other hand, it is quite
> likely that others who might have names like 'Elokeshi' and 'Paanchi'
> might have cheated a lot of sex workers (their own erstwhile comrades)
> of their due.
>
> "Kono shala maagi ba dalaaler maathaye morjaadar hishep aanka
> nei.Maathai tilok kaata bamun-thakur hoyto-ba morjaadar naap ta nitey
> ebong ditey paaren, kintu aamar moto dalaaler eto baar ekhono baareni je
> haamesha inchi tape niye nijer morjadar aaga-paanch-tola doirgho-prosto
> nepey berabo. Shomoye'r boro obhab, memshayeb, boro shonkot. Aar ta
> cchara,  koto jinisher hisheb jey ekhono baaki."
>
> yani-ke
>
> "Kisi raand ya bharue ke maathe par uske maryada ka naap-tol likha nahin
> hota. Maathey pe tilak kaat kar maryaada ko pongey-pandit naapte honge,
> lekin mujh jaise bharuey ki itni aukaad nahin hai ki mai hamesha inchi
> tape leke apney maryaade ke lambaai-chaaurai ke maujuda haal ka khabar
> detey firun. Time-time ki baat hoti hai mem'saab, aur hamaare paas time
> kam hai. Aur bahut kuch baaki hai naapne ko. "
>
> Apologies, readers, for the untranslatable, which must remain more or
> less as such. But since ethnic references have come into play with such
> full force, I thought it might be interesting to ask how we gloss
> 'pimping' which describes an activity in relation to 'bong' which
> describes the accident of birth, language and to some extent, geography.
> I can see quite easily how one can put 'pimps' with 'commission agent'
> or 'negotiator' or 'adjuster' or even 'accountant' or 'public relations
> professional' in one sub set and 'mallus' with 'bongs' and 'uplas' in
> another. One is a vocation or profession or calling, and the other is a
> description of the language one speaks, or the cultural matrix one
> inherits, embedded in, or trapped by.
>
> But the mathematics that allows us to construct a calculation that
> involves both 'bongs' and 'pimps' as indices that can be read off each
> other in terms of the intensity of dignity is somehow opaque to me. I
> want to understand how we can actually conduct this operation, how
> 'pimp' and 'bong' can be made to stand together as terms with
> interchangable valence in the same equation. (How else would we be able
> to make a quantitative comparison between these two vis a vis that
> enigmatic third term - 'dignity')
>
> Instinctively, I have a sense that what Emma D is saying is right. "Even
> pimps have more dignity than certain bong men". But I want to understand
> what makes this sentence so accurate. I really do. I will be grateful if
> Emma d or anyone else, can shed light on this matter.
>
> warm regards, benche thakun, I hope none of you will take amiss my
> sincere effort to understand all that is being said, by everyone 
> concerned.
>
> Shuddha,
> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>