[Reader-list] fatima's response

[Partha Dasgupta]

Dear Fatima,

Despite the filter post (and the tons of junk I get from the net) have never
used any filters for anything other than spam - which I also view a list of
before deleting. That would be inimical to the reason I came on the list -
which was to learn and hear different view. Sure, some are rants (again
that's from my point of view while the author considers it as a justified
post) and many are viewpoints that I deeply disagree with.

It's like making a friend - we don't consider a person a friend because
they're a Tribal, a Hindu, or a Muslim, or a Christain, or a Jew, or any of
the myriad religions that reside in India. We consider a person a friend
because we like them. And even while they are friends, we have areas that we
disagree on.

Some things are cultural. The practise of saying 'tu' to refer to a person
is extremely uncomfortable to me. With my sister married into a Punjabi
family, that's something I deal with because it is not done out of
disrespect, but out of acceptance of me and my family into their home.

The larger issue at hand is to raise a debate and clarify the fact - which
many posters have done hear. Maybe some others will make loud noises. So
what?

At the end of the day, it's our choice - whether to join the herd or to run
from the noise or to stand by ones self and say what you truly believe in.

Rgds, Partha

On Nov 9, 2007 9:20 PM, S.Fatima <sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> wrote:

> Dear Vivek
> I didn't say that the nuance is a previlege of only
> the (Sarai) elite -- in fact, millions of nice people
> who know the nuances haven't probably heard about
> internet. I was only wondering about two things: (1)
> if we know that certain Sarai readers are adamant
> about posting all the rubbish, and there is no way
> they will ever heed, then why can't Sarai moderator do
> her job of moderating them. Is it because we are
> afraid that our status as a democratic reader-list
> will shatter. I think even democracry needs certain
> rules, to check the unruly. Why can't we simply put
> certain IDs on the moderated mode - their postings
> should pass only if they are not ranting, bantering,
> or shlokaneering. To me, that's better than suggesting
> everyone to apply filters. And I am sure enough
> warnings have already been given for this moderation
> to start. Allow them to post only if they sensibly add
> something to the on-going debates.
>
> (2) My other idea (which maybe contrary to the first
> one) was that there is much worse ranting in real life
> than what we've witnessed on Sarai. We are already
> distanced from some of that, and want to become
> further distanced by removing whatever little
> irritants we have. But in real life this ranting is a
> much bigger/deeper malaise, and it and won't get cured
> by our filtering of it. So I am just wondering if the
> reader-list (or internet for that matter) is able to
> play any role in changing the ranting habits of the
> people.
>
> You talk about warmth in the postings. But internet
> promotes a hit-and-run approach, people can post
> incognito, there is no accountibility - it is in fact
> worse than a street. I am sure the warmth in postings
> comes only from those people who are known to Sarai or
> know each other, hence they write carefully.
>
>
> --- Vivek Narayanan <vivek at sarai.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Dear Fatima,
> >
> > Thank you for your nuanced and considered note.
> > Please note again that
> > I am not speaking for anyone else but myself,
> > certainly not as a "voice
> > of Sarai".  I don't think nuance is the privilege or
> > preserve of any
> > group, nor does it depend on education or decorum.
> > Instead, it's a
> > certain warmth and hospitality, and a willingness to
> > listen carefully,
> > and to be considered in one's responses.
> > Essentially, it is about
> > coming to the conversation in good faith, with love
> > and with
> > thoughtfulness-- not with the intention to sabotage
> > dialogue or shout
> > down others. Most of all, if it becomes obvious that
> > a reply has been
> > dashed off in a couple of seconds and, moreover,
> > five or seven of those
> > replies are sent in the course of a single day, then
> > I feel that this
> > wastes my time and makes it difficult to find the
> > mails on the list that
> > are more carefully thought out.
> >
> > So I disagree with you *completely* that such
> > qualities would be found
> > only among "elites at Sarai".  These are protocols
> > that one finds with
> > many people on the street, regardless of their
> > background and access to
> > privilege.  In fact, as you well know, on the Indian
> > street, it is often
> > the rich and privileged who tend to shout louder,
> > for they fear no
> > reprisal.  Right wing nationalists can feel secure
> > in the knowledge that
> > they have the support of the state behind them.  I
> > would not be
> > surprised if, in monitoring this list, there would
> > be members who would
> > not hesitate to report anyone they considered to be
> > "anti-national" to
> > the authorities.  This is the kind of insecurity
> > that shadows our
> > conversations here--the question of what kinds of
> > statements might
> > involve violent reprisals or legal censure, and so
> > on; this is the
> > fragility of the discussions that have been built up
> > on this list over
> > the course of five or so short years.
> >
> > Yes indeed, one is dedicated here to the vibrancy,
> > variousness and
> > quirkiness of the street--with the caveat that all
> > our members are at
> > least privileged enough to have access to the
> > internet.  (Some write so
> > often that they must almost certainly have their own
> > full-time dedicated
> > broadband.)   Yet, it only takes a few goondas to
> > suppress and drown out
> > all the many conversations, trying to fill the space
> > with only their own
> > voices.  In such instances, to renew our
> > conversations, our whispering
> > faith in each other, it may be necessary to shut out
> > the bullies for a
> > while.  This would not be to pretend that those
> > bullies don't exist;
> > merely it would be to acknowledge that they don't
> > have anything new to
> > say.  We have heard that shtick before.
> >
> > But again: my mail was addressed only to those who
> > already felt the same
> > way as me, and who wanted a practical and efficient
> > solution.   We have
> > very different positions on this question even at
> > Sarai; some agree with
> > me, some most certainly don't.  Those who have the
> > time and energy to
> > stay tuned to the bullying and the threatening and
> > the chanting of
> > shlokas and spells must please do so.  I can even
> > say I admire your
> > Gandhian equanimity.  I, on the other hand, have
> > other things to do, and
> > I can't afford to spend my time fighting an endless
> > war of attrition, in
> > the trenches, with little or no gain from day to
> > day, on the Line of
> > Discursive Control (LODC), here on the reader list.
> >
> > Warmly,
> > Vivek
> >
>
>
>
>      Now you can chat without downloading messenger. Go to
> http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
>
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-- 
Partha Dasgupta
+919811047132