[Reader-list] Of ingrates and hypocrites

[inder salim]

On 9/6/07, inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Kshmendra
>
> I hope, u have seen the Image in 6/09 ToI today:  Men hanging by the
> noose in public domain.  Dear Kshmendra ji, is this the Nation which
> you are talking about?  Whether this happens inside the prison or
> outside, the meaning is the same: death to its subjects.  The choice
> to execute them so crudely suggests one thing that the Nation can
> reveal its barbaric face at a very short notice. We have witnessed it
> time and again, here as well.
>
> Because of your  provocative definition on Nation Sate, I write, but
> soon I might  go some where, as usual, perhaps to escape, from the
> idea of Nation  itself, as it is brimming with  people like you. You
> certainly need not worry. But I hope that u feel that I am talking to
> you, all the time.
>
>  I quote from a latest response in the List by Mr. Mohd. Junaid     "
> The point is power. The kings, of whichever creed, have only
> occasionally been driven by their faith. The most important thing for
> them was to retain, boost and legitimize their power and authority….
> It is unfortunate that we have to defend kings and rulers here, and
> not their subjects against them, but the nature of the discussion
> forces us to do so".
>
> The problem with you Mr. Kshmendra is that you are from an obsolete
> school of thought even about Nation State, let alone Contemporary Art.
>  Now for example, this:
>
> I remember, in one of your mails, you mentioned about the 'lifted
> footage' in Sanjay Kak's film. The argument that it is someone else's
> frame ( of mind ) was once thought to be of some importance, but now
> it amounts to naiveté. I am not writing it only about you, but in
> general. There are quite a  number of people who think so, unwittingly
> at times. The question is about appropriation of a concept or art
> form, but when the issue is pain, nothing really matters, that is my
> schooling.
>
> On seeing Abu Gharib Prison torture images, the noted writer  Susan
> Sontag declared " These photographs are us". Andhy Warhol used the
> images 'found'. The all time great Marcel Duchamp  gave it life and
> name " ready-mades ". In essence, if I communicate, there is nothing
> called ' original  in art'   these days.  The reasons are many.  Here,
> I stress, the word ' communicate'. T.S.Eliot once suggested that a
> Poem communicates itself first, and then it is understood.  But we try
> to understand first and then let a poem, a film, a painting, a
> photograph, a documentary to communicate. Noted Urdu writer and
> critic, Mr. Gopi Chand Narang suggested that there are thousands of
> books on Iqbal and  Islam, but in fact one or two books on his poetry.
> You know, what I am talking about.
>
> There is an old Greek Quote, which says, that there is nothing new
> under the sun. By that account, whatever we are writing, thinking or
> even feeling is not ours, but inherited, so a direct loss of
> existence. By how do we recover and restore our respective existential
> beings within our specificities is the point that interests me. As I
> suggested in my earlier post that I am interested in God of Small
> Things, and not in the so called overwhelming Nation State Gods.  Now
> that is really a shift, from a King to a Subject. All you need to know
> is that where your Camera is. If it is closer to the King then of
> course the subject will look smaller in perspective, but if it is
> shifted, then the King is inevitably pushed to the perspective, of
> history. We need to re-read the history for this purpose.  Literally,
> that has happened in a country like Nepal, metaphorically it has
> happened in other areas as well. All we need to do is to push the
> camera to focus its subjects and not the Nation State. Now there are
> tricky ways to focus the Camera, it can sabotage the cause, simply by
> rendering the Subject to a Mask. That is what  clever men in disguise
> do. That is how politicians play with the camera, and know skills to
> play this this theatre. But I am interested in the radical face of
> theatre, of art, of poem, or a photograph and of documentary.
>
>  If  your idea of Nation state comes from 1947- India, then even it
> can not afford to turn blind eye to the atrocities of Nation state to
> its own subjects.  Whether, it is Kashmir, North East, or any other
> part of India, all we know is that the police and politicians are hand
> in glove, and the Judiciary is lackadaisical, and the super Babus
> simply know the art of ruling its subjects in the name of free India.
> And even if you talk about heroes like Shaeed Bhagat Singh, still your
> idea of Nation State is terribly handicapped against the ideal of
> Nation State that sought to end the British Rule.
>
> To celebrate the Indian winning a  cricket match against the British
> is one thing, but to turn that celebration against the other who don't
> want  to celebrate, or even against those who prefer to celebrate the
> British winning in India or wherever.  Now how come, we impose our
> choices on others.  How do we know, who celebrates, what, when and
> how?   Now, if you are talking about Kashmir, now just tell me how can
> you compel some one to dance without the inner will to move even. Any
> cricket match between India and Pakistan was indeed a dividing line
> between the two. That is that, but that does not define the Nation
> state, particularly when it comes to history of Kashmir and its
> politics.  Then , you know now,  why,  in Kashmir after 1990, its
> subjects like to see India-not-winning against any Cricketing Nation,
> earlier it was Pakistan only.
>
> The Nation State should understand its subjects, from all
> perspectives, and India has miserably failed in Kashmir. You will
> agree, despite the fact that Kashmir is not clear about the mess it is
> in, as you pointed to Mr. Qalab in yor response to his frank and forth
> letter.   Kashmir issue is/was about ethics and not about language,
> region, mirpuris, pandits, dogras or ladhakhis etc.. something
> terrible happened in 1947.... and it contiunes to  happen.
> Anglo-American policies to contain the third world countries is now
> their art and craft....we unwittingly pick up the language, and
> impose....
>
> With regards and love
> Inder salim
>


>
>
>
>
> On 9/6/07, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >  Dear Qalab
> >
> >   You have called me a brother. You are my brother too Sir. Kashmiri brother and not Muslim or Pandit or whatever.
> >
> >   The "ingrates and hypocrites" comment had a context from earlier communications. It referred to "some" Indians and not specifically to any religion or region or ethnicity.
> >
> >   If you want to be specific, then the  generalisation "Muslims are anti-national and communal" is not my refrain. "Islam & Muslims" is as much a part of India as any other grouping. The "anti-national and communal" can be of any religion, region, ethnicity.
> >
> >   You have picked on the word "Nation" and made your comments and statements. Please tell me, if you would like to, what is the "Kashmir Nation" you refer to.
> >
> >   - is it of the people of Kashmir Valley alone?
> >   - is it of linguistically and ethnically Kashmiris alone?
> >   - is it those and in addition the Dogras, Ladakhis, Gojars, Baltis, Gilgitis, Muzaffarabadis & Mirpuris (both Saraiki and Punjabi speaking) etc?
> >    - how is the "Kashmir Nation" defined?
> >   - at what point of time from the past does it pick up the "Kashmir Nation" identity and why is that point chosen?
> >
> >
> >   Kshmendra Kaul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   Rebellious Koshur <rebelliouskoshur at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >     Kshmendra Kaul,
> >
> >   Blood, sweat and tears are used to make a Company also. India continues the legacy of East India Company. They too worked very hard those days to consolidate the British Indian Empire. In today's world all States are big companies and not Nations as such.
> >
> >   India is a company which is retaining all what it has grabbed, purchased, occupied and secured through inheritance. I am talking about State of India and not the Nation. I hope you know the difference.
> >
> >   Kashmir is nation and India is a state. My dear Kashmiri Pandit brothers you have deceived your own nation Kashmir time and again and yet you blame Muslims for being anti-national and communal. How pathetic… Your communal leaning towards Indian state has made you blind and you have forgotten your ROOTS.
> >
> >   For Resistance,
> >
> >   Qalab Hussain
> >
> >
> > Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:   INTERESTING PARALLEL:
> >
> > It takes years to make a Nation. It takes the blood, sweat and tears of many to build it and try and keep it secure.
> >
> > Yet, you will find in the Nation some who feed off it but are intent on attacking it and supporting those who want to break-up the Nation. These are the enemy within.
> >
> > These self-centered and self-obsessed ingrates will pontificate over the need to protect the integrity of a Virtual Nation ("intellectual community") they might have help build, but they will not hesitate to undermine the Nation that allows the "reality" of their existence to be functional.
> >
> > Kshmendra Kaul.
> >
> >
> > Jeebesh Bagchi wrote:
> > This is a list for discussion. Personal queries to individuals may be
> > please not asked through the list.
> >
> > It takes years to build and make an intellectual community. It takes
> > a few days to destroy it.
> >
> > Please treat the subscribers with some respect.
> >
> > warmly
> > jeebesh
> >
> > On 04-Sep-07, at 11:48 AM, we wi wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Vedavati,
> > >
> > > You Did not answered my 2nd question on caste and
> > > marriages in INDIA. Anyway may I know what your husband do? Can I
> > > have his email address please?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Dhatri.
> > >
> > >
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