[Reader-list] Heritage Signage Disappearing

[Partha Dasgupta]

Hi,

Don't know how relevant this is in this specific context, but Bristol in the
UK has something called a 'walking heritage tour'. It's a non-paid tour
where people are walked through the city from point to point to various
heritage sites by people of the town who explain about the site and it's
importance.

I admit that walking through Mumbai is not as easy as walking through a
small town in UK so maybe the non-paid would not work.

However, we could look at starting a project with Art and Architecture
college students who would find this of interest, and maintain a signage
archive.

Apologies if the thoughts don't quite make a point, was just pouring out
what came to my mind.

Regards, Partha
................

On 9/18/07, Vishal Rawlley <vishal.rawlley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> Kabi had suggested:
> what about
> marathi, gujarati, hindi urdu newpapers. or getting
> some reporter on the local english/vernacular  tv
> stations interested in doing a piece.
>
> It seems like a good idea to try the vernacular/ local media. For all the
> publicity Typocity got in the English press, it seems to have had very
> little effect. Does someone have a contact I can use?
>
> I am also thinking that a sticker campaign (a little mark pasted on the
> side
> of a sign) and a certification system wherein all heritage signs are
> recognised as such and marked accordingly, might help. All such signs
> would
> then be able to apply for funds for their upkeep or automatically go to
> the
> signage museum if it has to be dismantled. If old signs were to be
> regularly
> maintained, then the old sign makers would also find some employment. An
> 'Adopt a Sign' system could be used to raise funds for individual signs
> from
> patrons from the local community - or a wider community by auctioning the
> sign through its images on the internet. (Hmmm... I will have to become an
> NGO then! I find myself wishing  for a signage fairy who flits about
> Bombay
> streets brightening up and restoring the old signs in the night)
>
> Any further suggestions?
>
> Best,
> v
>
>
> On 9/15/07, Vishal Rawlley <vishal.rawlley at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Conversation thread started from>  http://bombay-arts.com/signs_gone/
> >
> > Dear Shuddha, Aman, Kabi (and the additional people this is going out
> to)
> >
> > The Typocity project (documenting signage and typeface in Mumbai -
> > www.typocity.com) has been well publicised. It was featured in the Mid
> > Day, talked about in Time Out, DNA people know about it; it was also
> > featured in several art and design magazines. We also conducted a number
> of
> > presentations and workshops in collages and other forums. I have also
> > personally spoken to many shop and restaurant owners about preserving
> their
> > old signage (one restaurant owner even has a laminated printout of the
> > typocity website page featuring his restaurant proudly displayed at the
> > counter).
> >
> > Months of labour on the project over three years had left me exhausted.
> > But it is now time to revisit it and take stock. Change is inevitable
> and no
> > matter what you and me think, the individual proprietors will make their
> own
> > aesthetic choice and pragmatic decisions. So some signs went away and I
> > could only sigh. However what got my goti is when I rushed into the
> Eastern
> > Watch shop to scold and complain to the owner for changing the sign,
> only to
> > realise that it was the BMC that forced him into this. Another regret
> was
> > that I had never managed to get a picture of this landmark sign because
> of
> > sheer bad luck and this haunted me whenever I passed by and each time I
> > reminded myself to do it soon, and then I saw it gone. Damn! But luckily
> the
> > owner has a a photograph from 1920s (that is what he claims about the
> old
> > photo I had posted. See: http://bombay-arts.com/signs_gone/ and
> > www.easternwatch.in ) which shows the original signage. It would have
> been
> > wonderful to compare this with a recent photograph of the same sign and
> see
> > how immaculate it still was - in bright red colours. I noticed the
> sign's
> > disappearance after I returned from a long trip abroad. I wonder whether
> > there are others who noticed this disappearance. (The PUKAR (
> > www.pukar.org.in) office and the Times of India office are both a
> stone's
> > throw away from Eastern Watch.)
> >
> > Another thing is that the recent corporate retail boom is speeding up
> the
> > demise of private businesses. Old shops are becoming franchises or
> revamping
> > themselves to look just like one. So along with the BMC's callousness,
> this
> > has given me the impetus to revisit the Typocity project.
> >
> > What I need help with is in connecting with some heritage lobbyists, or
> > better, a BMC officer who would listen. Could I use the RTI act in some
> way?
> > I am very inept at submitting forms, filing applications and drafting
> formal
> > letters. Government departments spook me out, but I can learn. And yes
> > additional campaigners will surely help. When you do see a good signage,
> > please tell the shop/ restaurant/ depot owner that what they have is
> > precious - this is a really effective approach. Please tell them that
> they
> > should never convert their bakery into a Foodland and do buy as many
> cakes
> > you can from them. (The lady at American Express bakery remembers me for
> > this. Printouts of ads from old newspapers about this 1930s institution
> are
> > proudly framed even in their new branch now.) Many owners already have
> an
> > attachment to the old world and all it needs is a young person to
> reaffirm
> > the charm and then they can get very protective about their heritage on
> > their own.
> >
> > In certain cities some nice attempts have been made to restore old
> signs.
> > In Chicago, for example, the new owners try to retain the old sign even
> if
> > it is not relevant to their business. A hip cafeteria will retain the
> sign
> > of the clock repair shop that they have now come to occupy, and even
> call
> > their cafe Clockworks Cafe. It is a crusade against indiscriminate
> > advertising. Can Foodland be perhaps made to see some sense? Can their
> sign
> > say Kayani Stores - and in small: a Foodland outlet. Couldn't it even be
> a
> > nice business model, as people like to buy food from an old and trusted
> > place. In Montreal some people are collecting old signs that have to be
> > taken off and are trying to create a museum for these. Funds for this
> are
> > collected, for now, from private donors and the storage space has been
> > obtained for free.
> >
> > So if you know advertising people from the agencies that are designing
> the
> > branding for Foodland and Spencer's and Farm Fresh please speak to them.
> If
> > you know gallery owners or industrialists with some vacant warehouse
> space,
> > please ask them if they could store some precious signs in there for a
> > while. If through signage reform we can create an awareness about a
> certain
> > ethos, then it might even impact architecture design and shop layout
> design
> > and city planning! A signage movement is easier to proceed with than
> > fighting the builders lobby. But if a certain ethos catches on then the
> > trend followers shall simply follow.
> >
> > Thanks for your ideas and suggestions so far. I look forward to all the
> > press support and any other inputs that can help this cause. I am not
> > leading this movement; it is as much anyone's cause as mine as long as
> they
> > feel the same way about signage and heritage and advertising etc. So do
> > write in.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vishal
> >
> >
> > p.s. Shuddha, I do know about www.dafont.com and we did make digital
> > typefaces out of some found fonts (a very tedious exercise, as not all
> > characters of the font-set are present in the found font.) Some
> enthusiastic
> > students from typography major in J J school of arts have shown a keen
> > interest in this area and anyone else who finds a typeface they like on
> the
> > Typocity website - without needing to scour the city - is free to make a
> > font out of it. This can be an on ongoing exercise. Some people want to
> > commercialise this whole venture - I am not very keen. My main interest
> > is in seeing the heritage signs where they belong rather than on my
> screen
> > or on a T-shirt.)
> >
> >
> > On 9/15/07, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Vishal,
> > >
> > > Many thanks for your posting on disappearing signage. As an avowed fan
> > > of typographic curiosities I have long been an admirer of your efforts
> > > to document the typographic diversity of Bombay.
> > >
> > > I share your concern about the disappearance of signage, because of
> the
> > > ham handed ways in which 'heritage' is interpreted by municipal
> > > authorities. Perhaps one thing that could be done is a small
> travelling
> > > exhibition based on your work in colleges, and other arts institutions
> > > in Bombay. And with your documentation, it should not be impossible to
> > > convince some of the Bombay papers, say DNA or Mid Day, or even Time
> Out
> > >
> > > Mumbai to publish some articles on the subject. Then maybe, the
> > > 'heritage' lobby itself may be persuaded to step in and realize that
> the
> > > typographic history of Bombay is as much a part of 'heritage' as
> > > anything else. I am sure that there are some people from DNA and Mid
> Day
> > > on this list.
> > >
> > > Perhaps they could come out and take this forward. I thought I would
> > > post in reply to your post because typography is somthing that I feel
> > > really strongly about,
> > >
> > > I hope that other people come up with other suggestions,
> > >
> > > best
> > >
> > > Shuddha
> > >
> > >
> > > > Friends,
> > > >
> > > > In 2002 the Typocity project ( www.typocity.com) was initiated to
> > > document
> > > > typefaces and signage styles in public spaces of Bombay. Since then,
> > > many of
> > > > the old signs that we documented are slowly vanishing. However, I
> was
> > > most
> > > > distressed to find that some of this heritage is being destroyed by
> > > the
> > > > municipal corporation itself in the name of protecting and
> > > > restoring heritage structures. Nothing can be more absurd.
> > > >
> > > > Please follow this link to see the pictures of replaced signs and
> find
> > > out
> > > > more: http://bombay-arts.com/signs_gone/  Do excuse the quality of
> > > some of
> > > > the recent pictures as they were taken on the spur with a
> > > phone-camera. If
> > > > anyone has better pictures of the recently replaced Eastern Watch
> sign
> > >
> > > > please share it with me.
> > > >
> > > > I am desperately looking for suggestions and ideas to counter this
> > > lack of
> > > > sensitivity by the municipal corporation. I shall be very grateful
> for
> > > any
> > > > help.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Vishal
> > > > _________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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