[Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 50, Issue 151

[Radhakrishnan]

Dear Pawan,

I am also equally astonished to know about selective interpretation of history. Incidentally Iran despite being an Islamic republic has not denied its pre Islamic past, in terms of preserving old monuments which are symbols of Greek and Zoroastrian settlements.

You had mentioned about the suffering, humiliation and displcement of the Kashmiri Pundits (as evidenced by the Saaraswats and Vaadama Ayers etc. I would like to disagree on this count. Kashmiri Pundits sufferings are enormous/distinct/too complex to merit such comparisons with other groups. Probably one can compare their plight with that of jews in Nazi Germany, Muslims in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Palestinians in the west bank

Incidentally Brahmins got displaced in Tamilnadu when their undue/unjust monopoly was broken through affirmative actions by the State. While one can't deny that some of the state sponsored actions and also the role of non Brahmin upper caste under DK and DMK caused substantial damage to the civil society, in the garb of social engineering and remodeling. Brahmins left the state in large numbers to explore other avenues and were able to recoup as well as reconcile with the new social order through their own skills. In the present scenario they are viewed as an innocuous as well as insignificant group. Ironically they are also seen as a neutral group by some sections which have clash of interests with other caste groups.

Ironically it is the non brahmin groups that are getting more radicalized and adhering to brahminical canons - courtesy the DMK and AIADMK.

To put in simple words the suffering and brutalization of the Kashmiri Pundits cannot be, by no stretch of imagination be compared to the saraswats and tamil brahmins. 

A small clarification vadamas are one of the sub division of the many within Iyers (Shavites), there are primarilly two divisions withinthe Tamil Brahmins ie Iyers (Shavites) and Iyengars (Vaishnavites) who together roughly constitute 3% of Tamilnadu population.

One final addition to what Anirudh had said:
In fact the government of TamilNadu had also not declared the prize money for Dinesh Karthik, but that was conviniently ignored for 'Dravidian' digressions don't merit nor cause such consternation. I think there shouldn't have been  such a vulgar display of nationalism sorry competing distorted notions of secularism.I think those who share your sentiments can read Mukul Kesavan's article on 
Anglophone Indians in the Telegraph - 'WAYS OF AN ANTIQUE LAND 
- Anglophone Indians and their odd habits' The link is given below

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070906/asp/opinion/story_8280162.asp








On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 reader-list-request at sarai.net wrote :
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>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Intellectuals Operate Again ...... (Anirudh)
>    2. Re: Tehelka - now in Hindi (prakash ray)
>    3. Burma (Yousuf)
>    4. Fwd:  Burma (Anirudh)
>    5.  Fwd: Burma (Anirudh)
>    6. Re: Fwd: Burma (Anirudh)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:01:56 +0530
> From: Anirudh <anirudhsbh at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Intellectuals Operate Again ......
>To: "Pawan Durani" <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
>Cc: reader_list <reader-list at sarai.net>
>Message-ID:
> 	<ef792da70709291231g6bed74d5l1b1387cf7aca0b07 at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
>Wow. You echo my sentiments completely. I live in  Ahmedabad, Gujarat and
>Times of India, like everywhere else in India is the most widely read
>English daily.
>
>Did I just call it a "daily"? It's become more of a polarised tabloid, or a
>political propaganda sheet, bent on inciting and preventing young minds to
>form an opinion of their own. I would say that I would have personally
>preferred to read "The Hindu" or "The Statesman", it's a pity that the same
>edition would not be available on the same day.
>
>On the day that the TOI criticized the Modi government (emphasis supplied,
>implied etc.), "Is Modi going to losen purse strings for the Pathans?", had
>all the distinctive features of a gang-up against Modi. This is not to imply
>that Modi is a saint, but the way in which TOI has abused it's position as
>the "conscience-keeper" of the society is deplorable.
>
>In case you have not noticed, during one of TOI's highly publicised campaign
>to save the Gir Lion from poachers - they hollered that the image of the Gir
>Lion can be likened to that of Gujarat, citing many reasons including:
>"Gujarat's image as a successful place for investment, capitalisation,
>industries etc", while on the same page criticsing Modi for using a
>religious guru to "influence voter" (apparently  libellous allegations and
>content with dubious sourcing is regularly added by the sheet); and only the
>day before they were lamenting about how Modi "misquotes" the development in
>the state, when actually there has been no development at all.
>
>TOI sucks. I wish I had something better to read every morning, without the
>polarisation, without the exaggeration, without any agenda. Just news,
>honest, neutral and giving all point of views. If it were possible, I
>wouldn't even use TOI as an asswipe.
>
>--Anirudh
>
>On 9/29/07, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > 1. India wins 20/20 Cricket world cup. On the *second* day Kerela  and
> > Haryana Govt announce rewards for players hailing from their respective
> > states.
> >
> > 2. On the *third* day Psuedo Secular ....one legged....media start
> > criticising Gujarat (Modi) Govt for not announcing any reward for Pathan
> > brothers....which anyway Gujarat Govt announces later on the third day. An
> > image of Modi being anti muslim is splashed across all news papers by so
> > called "intellectuals" and Psuedo secularists .
> >
> > 3. On the *fifth *day after winning the 20/20 Cricket world cup Delhi Govt
> > announces reward for Gautham Gambhir & same day Tamil nadu Govt announces
> > reward for Dinesh Karthik......the same Psuedo secularist dont compare it
> > with anything. Everyone is silent.
> >
> > Just an example to show how appeasement works in this country. How
> > intellectauls pass their verdicts.....and how psuedo secularists are hell
> > bent on creating controversies and attacking Gujarat (Modi ) Govt
> > .....even
> > for a non issue
> >
> > Pawan Durani
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:32:28 +0530
> From: "prakash ray" <pkray11 at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Tehelka - now in Hindi
>To: reader-list at sarai.net
>Message-ID:
> 	<98f331e00709291302p40891758ke1eb1e42e951c6e2 at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
>ACHHA HAI....
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:57:26 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
>Subject: [Reader-list] Burma
>To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>, asiafellows at yahoogroups.com,
> 	somkamol <somkamol at asianscholarship.org>,	Lourdes Salvador
> 	<lourdes at asianscholarship.org>
>Message-ID: <320289.16399.qm at web51404.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Eddie Woods <metal.dragon at hetnet.nl> wrote:
>
>Hello People,
>
>We're concerned about Burma, right?
>But no one can do anything.
>Except talk. And make useless threats.
>The UN. The EU. The USA. The UK. Etc.
>Sanctions. Travel restrictions. Blah-blah-blah.
>The generals don't care.
>They never did, they're not going to now.
>Yet a nation is in pain. And people are dying.
>
>We know China COULD do something. But it won't.
>They do too much business with the corrupt Burmese
>regime.
>Nearly two billion dollars' worth annually.
>More than 400 companies.
>And Burma's biggest arms supplier (along with India &
>Russia).
>
>Well, there are organizations that can do something.
>To force China to do something.
>Sports federations.
>Beijing is hosting the 2008 Olympics.
>(Which it never should have been awarded. With its
>godawful human rights
>record. Its polluted air. And all the crap they'll be
>selling, made by what
>practically amounts to slave labor.)
>
>Urge your national sports federations to boycott the
>Olympics!
>The message is simple: "China, wring the generals'
>necks. Stop selling them
>guns. Insist they step down NOW. And release Aung San
>Suu Kyi IMMEDIATELY.
>Make them give political power back to those they
>stole it from, the people
>of Burma. Or we won't come and play with you, China.
>We'll skip the Olympics
>till 2012. Your stadiums will be empty. Your cheap
>trinkets and t-shirts
>will rot. And you can go back to flogging poisoned
>toys to the world."
>
>Will they do it, the sports federations? Probably not.
>But YOU can tell them
>to anyway. You can find most of the international ones
>at
>http://www.agfisonline.com/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,5148-176060
>-193278-nav-list,00.html
>and then Google for the rest. Know any athletes? Talk
>to them, twist their
>arms. To twist the arms of their federations. Sports
>is business, too.
>France's Total (gas & oil company) is not about to
>quit Burma, but maybe a
>handful or more pole-vaulters will.
>
>Ah, and all of you in cricket-playing countries:
>pressure your cricket teams
>and federations to boycott India. Until they cease
>arms sales to Burma's
>dictators. "You need gas, India? I'm sure any future
>democratic Burmese
>government will be more than happy to do business with
>you."
>
>I haven't a clue about what anyone might say to
>Russia. But two out of the
>big bad three would be great for starters.
>
>Oh yeah, the BBC, CNN, et cetera could also stop
>running tourism ads for
>China. You know, the folks who execute more of their
>citizens than any other
>nation; and then charge the poor sods' families for
>the bullets.
>
>[The attached poem (with thanks to Rudyard Kipling for
>the title + first
>line) is appended below as well as attached; this for
>the benefit of those
>on my mailing list (there are a few) who cannot open
>attachments.]
>
>Go for it, eh!
>
>Amen, EDDIE
>
>
>MANDALAY
>
>On the road to Mandalay,
>Where Buddhist monks march and pray
>With their begging bowls turned upside down,
>Their fear of reprisals flung to the ground,
>A brutal regime strains to hold sway.
>Yet in the grim face of tyranny
>It is the Sangha, and the people,
>Who must seize the day.
>
>On the streets of Rangoon,
>Even yesteryear was not too soon
>For those murderous generals
>To be thoroughly swept away.
>
>Common soldiers, hold your fire!
>Turn your weapons on the liars!
>Build a pyre, enormously tall!
>Set it alight, let it burn bright
>With the sizzling corpse
>Of oppression overthrown!
>
>Flames of freedom, please prevail!
>As Burma valiantly seeks to sail
>Into a new and fragrant dawn.
>Burma oh Burma,
>May the spirit of Buddha
>Guide your future for evermore.
>
>
>EDDIE WOODS
>September 2007
>
>
>
>
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
>Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.
>http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:13:40 +0530
> From: Anirudh <anirudhsbh at gmail.com>
>Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd:  Burma
>To: reader_list <reader-list at sarai.net>
>Message-ID:
> 	<ef792da70709292243w4927a10eu3f80a83f5de2cc9f at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Anirudh <anirudhsbh at gmail.com>
>Date: Sep 30, 2007 11:13 AM
>Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Burma
>To: Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
>
>India has always been in an eternal dilemma: Whether to have volatile
>democracies in it's neighbourhood or relatively-stable dictatorships. And I
>don't think we are moving towards a concrete solution either. :-(
>
>As for boycotting the Chinese Olympics, I think that would segregate them
>even more from the world, which is something we cannot afford to do. India
>must  maintain strong cultural and economical ties in it's neighbour hood,
>for it's own good.
>
>- --Anirudh
>
>On 9/30/07, Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Eddie Woods <metal.dragon at hetnet.nl> wrote:
> >
> > Hello People,
> >
> > We're concerned about Burma, right?
> > But no one can do anything.
> > Except talk. And make useless threats.
> > The UN. The EU. The USA. The UK. Etc.
> > Sanctions. Travel restrictions. Blah-blah-blah.
> > The generals don't care.
> > They never did, they're not going to now.
> > Yet a nation is in pain. And people are dying.
> >
> > We know China COULD do something. But it won't.
> > They do too much business with the corrupt Burmese
> > regime.
> > Nearly two billion dollars' worth annually.
> > More than 400 companies.
> > And Burma's biggest arms supplier (along with India &
> > Russia).
> >
> > Well, there are organizations that can do something.
> > To force China to do something.
> > Sports federations.
> > Beijing is hosting the 2008 Olympics.
> > (Which it never should have been awarded. With its
> > godawful human rights
> > record. Its polluted air. And all the crap they'll be
> > selling, made by what
> > practically amounts to slave labor.)
> >
> > Urge your national sports federations to boycott the
> > Olympics!
> > The message is simple: "China, wring the generals'
> > necks. Stop selling them
> > guns. Insist they step down NOW. And release Aung San
> > Suu Kyi IMMEDIATELY.
> > Make them give political power back to those they
> > stole it from, the people
> > of Burma. Or we won't come and play with you, China.
> > We'll skip the Olympics
> > till 2012. Your stadiums will be empty. Your cheap
> > trinkets and t-shirts
> > will rot. And you can go back to flogging poisoned
> > toys to the world."
> >
> > Will they do it, the sports federations? Probably not.
> > But YOU can tell them
> > to anyway. You can find most of the international ones
> > at
> >
> > http://www.agfisonline.com/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,5148-176060
> > -193278-nav-list,00.html
> > and then Google for the rest. Know any athletes? Talk
> > to them, twist their
> > arms. To twist the arms of their federations. Sports
> > is business, too.
> > France's Total (gas & oil company) is not about to
> > quit Burma, but maybe a
> > handful or more pole-vaulters will.
> >
> > Ah, and all of you in cricket-playing countries:
> > pressure your cricket teams
> > and federations to boycott India. Until they cease
> > arms sales to Burma's
> > dictators. "You need gas, India? I'm sure any future
> > democratic Burmese
> > government will be more than happy to do business with
> > you."
> >
> > I haven't a clue about what anyone might say to
> > Russia. But two out of the
> > big bad three would be great for starters.
> >
> > Oh yeah, the BBC, CNN, et cetera could also stop
> > running tourism ads for
> > China. You know, the folks who execute more of their
> > citizens than any other
> > nation; and then charge the poor sods' families for
> > the bullets.
> >
> > [The attached poem (with thanks to Rudyard Kipling for
> > the title + first
> > line) is appended below as well as attached; this for
> > the benefit of those
> > on my mailing list (there are a few) who cannot open
> > attachments.]
> >
> > Go for it, eh!
> >
> > Amen, EDDIE
> >
> >
> > MANDALAY
> >
> > On the road to Mandalay,
> > Where Buddhist monks march and pray
> > With their begging bowls turned upside down,
> > Their fear of reprisals flung to the ground,
> > A brutal regime strains to hold sway.
> > Yet in the grim face of tyranny
> > It is the Sangha, and the people,
> > Who must seize the day.
> >
> > On the streets of Rangoon,
> > Even yesteryear was not too soon
> > For those murderous generals
> > To be thoroughly swept away.
> >
> > Common soldiers, hold your fire!
> > Turn your weapons on the liars!
> > Build a pyre, enormously tall!
> > Set it alight, let it burn bright
> > With the sizzling corpse
> > Of oppression overthrown!
> >
> > Flames of freedom, please prevail!
> > As Burma valiantly seeks to sail
> > Into a new and fragrant dawn.
> > Burma oh Burma,
> > May the spirit of Buddha
> > Guide your future for evermore.
> >
> >
> > EDDIE WOODS
> > September 2007
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >       ____________________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo!
> > Autos.
> > http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/ >
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:07:07 +0530
> From: Anirudh <anirudhsbh at gmail.com>
>Subject: [Reader-list]  Fwd: Burma
>To: reader_list <reader-list at sarai.net>
>Message-ID:
> 	<ef792da70709300037x1a8b6a90uc0760068869b4657 at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
>Please, everyone, use the "Reply to all" function in Gmail or in your
>respective email service
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: ayush <ayushdelhi at yahoo.co.uk>
>Date: Sep 30, 2007 1:05 PM
>Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd:  Burma
>To: Anirudh <anirudhsbh at gmail.com>
>
>Apart from China we need to look within. What are we doing about it.
>Being the biggest democracy and upholder of human rights(well we pretend to)
>we need to do something rather than just think of our economic interests in
>the region. If we continue to behave this way,in my opinion, we would soon
>be like US - supporting and having dictators and repressive regimes as our
>best friends for the sake of economic interests. And ceratainly ones culture
>does not strength by endorsing or standing mum over repression - ceratinly
>not for India - where non vilonence and peacefulful protests are inherent
>
>
>
>
>Ayush
>
>
>
>
>
>  ---- Original Message ----
> From: Anirudh <anirudhsbh at gmail.com>
>To: reader_list <reader-list at sarai.net>
>Sent: Sunday, 30 September, 2007 11:13:40 AM
>Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Burma
>
>  ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Anirudh <anirudhsbh at gmail.com>
>Date: Sep 30, 2007 11:13 AM
>Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Burma
>To: Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
>
>India has always been in an eternal dilemma: Whether to have volatile
>democracies in it's neighbourhood or relatively-stable dictatorships. And I
>don't think we are moving towards a concrete solution either. :-(
>
>As for boycotting the Chinese Olympics, I think that would segregate them
>even more from the world, which is something we cannot afford to do. India
>must  maintain strong cultural and economical ties in it's neighbour hood,
>for it's own good.
>
>- --Anirudh
>
>On 9/30/07, Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Eddie Woods <metal.dragon at hetnet.nl> wrote:
> >
> > Hello People,
> >
> > We're concerned about Burma, right?
> > But no one can do anything.
> > Except talk. And make useless threats.
> > The UN. The EU. The USA. The UK. Etc.
> > Sanctions. Travel restrictions. Blah-blah-blah.
> > The generals don't care.
> > They never did, they're not going to now.
> > Yet a nation is in pain. And people are dying.
> >
> > We know China COULD do something. But it won't.
> > They do too much business with the corrupt Burmese
> > regime.
> > Nearly two billion dollars' worth annually.
> > More than 400 companies.
> > And Burma's biggest arms supplier (along with India &
> > Russia).
> >
> > Well, there are organizations that can do something.
> > To force China to do something.
> > Sports federations.
> > Beijing is hosting the 2008 Olympics.
> > (Which it never should have been awarded. With its
> > godawful human rights
> > record. Its polluted air. And all the crap they'll be
> > selling, made by what
> > practically amounts to slave labor.)
> >
> > Urge your national sports federations to boycott the
> > Olympics!
> > The message is simple: "China, wring the generals'
> > necks. Stop selling them
> > guns. Insist they step down NOW. And release Aung San
> > Suu Kyi IMMEDIATELY.
> > Make them give political power back to those they
> > stole it from, the people
> > of Burma. Or we won't come and play with you, China.
> > We'll skip the Olympics
> > till 2012. Your stadiums will be empty. Your cheap
> > trinkets and t-shirts
> > will rot. And you can go back to flogging poisoned
> > toys to the world."
> >
> > Will they do it, the sports federations? Probably not.
> > But YOU can tell them
> > to anyway. You can find most of the international ones
> > at
> >
> >
>http://www.agfisonline.com/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,5148-176060
> > -193278-nav-list,00.html
> > and then Google for the rest. Know any athletes? Talk
> > to them, twist their
> > arms. To twist the arms of their federations. Sports
> > is business, too.
> > France's Total (gas & oil company) is not about to
> > quit Burma, but maybe a
> > handful or more pole-vaulters will.
> >
> > Ah, and all of you in cricket-playing countries:
> > pressure your cricket teams
> > and federations to boycott India. Until they cease
> > arms sales to Burma's
> > dictators. "You need gas, India? I'm sure any future
> > democratic Burmese
> > government will be more than happy to do business with
> > you."
> >
> > I haven't a clue about what anyone might say to
> > Russia. But two out of the
> > big bad three would be great for starters.
> >
> > Oh yeah, the BBC, CNN, et cetera could also stop
> > running tourism ads for
> > China. You know, the folks who execute more of their
> > citizens than any other
> > nation; and then charge the poor sods' families for
> > the bullets.
> >
> > [The attached poem (with thanks to Rudyard Kipling for
> > the title + first
> > line) is appended below as well as attached; this for
> > the benefit of those
> > on my mailing list (there are a few) who cannot open
> > attachments.]
> >
> > Go for it, eh!
> >
> > Amen, EDDIE
> >
> >
> > MANDALAY
> >
> > On the road to Mandalay,
> > Where Buddhist monks march and pray
> > With their begging bowls turned upside down,
> > Their fear of reprisals flung to the ground,
> > A brutal regime strains to hold sway.
> > Yet in the grim face of tyranny
> > It is the Sangha, and the people,
> > Who must seize the day.
> >
> > On the streets of Rangoon,
> > Even yesteryear was not too soon
> > For those murderous generals
> > To be thoroughly swept away.
> >
> > Common soldiers, hold your fire!
> > Turn your weapons on the liars!
> > Build a pyre, enormously tall!
> > Set it alight, let it burn bright
> > With the sizzling corpse
> > Of oppression overthrown!
> >
> > Flames of freedom, please prevail!
> > As Burma valiantly seeks to sail
> > Into a new and fragrant dawn.
> > Burma oh Burma,
> > May the spirit of Buddha
> > Guide your future for evermore.
> >
> >
> > EDDIE WOODS
> > September 2007
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>____________________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo!
> > Autos.
> > http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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>Message: 6
>Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:13:47 +0530
> From: Anirudh <anirudhsbh at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Burma
>To: ayush <ayushdelhi at yahoo.co.uk>, reader_list
> 	<reader-list at sarai.net>
>Message-ID:
> 	<ef792da70709300043h6552068bhc6368c58a70efef7 at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
>Ayush,
>
>We have never pretended to be the "biggest upholder of human rights", don't
>know where you got that one from. India, for one, is plagued by many
>problems, we have many issues to be concerned about which does not leave
>much space [for our government] to shift its focus to our immediate
>neighbourhood. Which needs to change...
>
>This would not be a place to trigger another round of huge discussions over
>the kind of philosophy, policies and code of morality and ethics that
>countries follow... but to try and understand what is in our best interest.
>
>Diplomacy is not as simple as most of us make it sound like discussion
>forums. Each and every step has to be taken with circumspection and
>foresight.
>
>--Anirudh
>
>PS: We are not international policemen either. Let other countries deal with
>their own problems, lest the image of India becomes one that the United
>States currently has in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
>
>
>On 9/30/07, ayush <ayushdelhi at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Apart from China we need to look within. What are we doing about it.
> > Being the biggest democracy and upholder of human rights(well we pretend to)
> > we need to do something rather than just think of our economic interests in
> > the region. If we continue to behave this way,in my opinion, we would soon
> > be like US - supporting and having dictators and repressive regimes as our
> > best friends for the sake of economic interests. And ceratainly ones culture
> > does not strength by endorsing or standing mum over repression - ceratinly
> > not for India - where non vilonence and peacefulful protests are inherent
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ayush
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  ---- Original Message ----
> > From: Anirudh <anirudhsbh at gmail.com>
> > To: reader_list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, 30 September, 2007 11:13:40 AM
> > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Burma
> >
> >  ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Anirudh <anirudhsbh at gmail.com>
> > Date: Sep 30, 2007 11:13 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Burma
> > To: Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
> >
> > India has always been in an eternal dilemma: Whether to have volatile
> > democracies in it's neighbourhood or relatively-stable dictatorships. And
> > I
> > don't think we are moving towards a concrete solution either. :-(
> >
> > As for boycotting the Chinese Olympics, I think that would segregate them
> > even more from the world, which is something we cannot afford to do. India
> > must  maintain strong cultural and economical ties in it's neighbour hood,
> > for it's own good.
> >
> > - --Anirudh
> >
> > On 9/30/07, Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Eddie Woods <metal.dragon at hetnet.nl> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello People,
> > >
> > > We're concerned about Burma, right?
> > > But no one can do anything.
> > > Except talk. And make useless threats.
> > > The UN. The EU. The USA. The UK. Etc.
> > > Sanctions. Travel restrictions. Blah-blah-blah.
> > > The generals don't care.
> > > They never did, they're not going to now.
> > > Yet a nation is in pain. And people are dying.
> > >
> > > We know China COULD do something. But it won't.
> > > They do too much business with the corrupt Burmese
> > > regime.
> > > Nearly two billion dollars' worth annually.
> > > More than 400 companies.
> > > And Burma's biggest arms supplier (along with India &
> > > Russia).
> > >
> > > Well, there are organizations that can do something.
> > > To force China to do something.
> > > Sports federations.
> > > Beijing is hosting the 2008 Olympics.
> > > (Which it never should have been awarded. With its
> > > godawful human rights
> > > record. Its polluted air. And all the crap they'll be
> > > selling, made by what
> > > practically amounts to slave labor.)
> > >
> > > Urge your national sports federations to boycott the
> > > Olympics!
> > > The message is simple: "China, wring the generals'
> > > necks. Stop selling them
> > > guns. Insist they step down NOW. And release Aung San
> > > Suu Kyi IMMEDIATELY.
> > > Make them give political power back to those they
> > > stole it from, the people
> > > of Burma. Or we won't come and play with you, China.
> > > We'll skip the Olympics
> > > till 2012. Your stadiums will be empty. Your cheap
> > > trinkets and t-shirts
> > > will rot. And you can go back to flogging poisoned
> > > toys to the world."
> > >
> > > Will they do it, the sports federations? Probably not.
> > > But YOU can tell them
> > > to anyway. You can find most of the international ones
> > > at
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.agfisonline.com/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,5148-176060
> > > -193278-nav-list,00.html
> > > and then Google for the rest. Know any athletes? Talk
> > > to them, twist their
> > > arms. To twist the arms of their federations. Sports
> > > is business, too.
> > > France's Total (gas & oil company) is not about to
> > > quit Burma, but maybe a
> > > handful or more pole-vaulters will.
> > >
> > > Ah, and all of you in cricket-playing countries:
> > > pressure your cricket teams
> > > and federations to boycott India. Until they cease
> > > arms sales to Burma's
> > > dictators. "You need gas, India? I'm sure any future
> > > democratic Burmese
> > > government will be more than happy to do business with
> > > you."
> > >
> > > I haven't a clue about what anyone might say to
> > > Russia. But two out of the
> > > big bad three would be great for starters.
> > >
> > > Oh yeah, the BBC, CNN, et cetera could also stop
> > > running tourism ads for
> > > China. You know, the folks who execute more of their
> > > citizens than any other
> > > nation; and then charge the poor sods' families for
> > > the bullets.
> > >
> > > [The attached poem (with thanks to Rudyard Kipling for
> > > the title + first
> > > line) is appended below as well as attached; this for
> > > the benefit of those
> > > on my mailing list (there are a few) who cannot open
> > > attachments.]
> > >
> > > Go for it, eh!
> > >
> > > Amen, EDDIE
> > >
> > >
> > > MANDALAY
> > >
> > > On the road to Mandalay,
> > > Where Buddhist monks march and pray
> > > With their begging bowls turned upside down,
> > > Their fear of reprisals flung to the ground,
> > > A brutal regime strains to hold sway.
> > > Yet in the grim face of tyranny
> > > It is the Sangha, and the people,
> > > Who must seize the day.
> > >
> > > On the streets of Rangoon,
> > > Even yesteryear was not too soon
> > > For those murderous generals
> > > To be thoroughly swept away.
> > >
> > > Common soldiers, hold your fire!
> > > Turn your weapons on the liars!
> > > Build a pyre, enormously tall!
> > > Set it alight, let it burn bright
> > > With the sizzling corpse
> > > Of oppression overthrown!
> > >
> > > Flames of freedom, please prevail!
> > > As Burma valiantly seeks to sail
> > > Into a new and fragrant dawn.
> > > Burma oh Burma,
> > > May the spirit of Buddha
> > > Guide your future for evermore.
> > >
> > >
> > > EDDIE WOODS
> > > September 2007
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > > Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo!
> > > Autos.
> > > http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________
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>End of reader-list Digest, Vol 50, Issue 151
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