[Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrestedaDelhi-basedJournalist

[radhikarajen at vsnl.net]

Hi, 

now that you have clubbed me into something which disliked most by me , here are few thoughts for you to ponder:

1. I am proud to be hindu, but at the same time, my way of life has taught me to respect all other ways of life, and being hindu is my choice to be good human first, in my nation, and believe in the whole of humanity as my family  and any pain and violence to any living being is equally painful to me irrespective of that human/living being having faith of any way of life.

2. Being hindu, my effort is to be good human being and express my dissent at what is wrong in the life, to make conscious efforts to change the ills in the society with good thoughts for change, without violence.

3. Being born in India, which as free India has, constitution which professes of secular governance, unlike other nations, which are declared themselves as nations of any one faith., thus making its own citizens of other than professed faith of that nation, second class citizens.

 In the circumstances, in the last sixty years, in my free India, the "secular" word is misused to divide the society on faith, region and caste in governance, irrespective of the political party that has ruled the nation and governance has been always appeasing a caste, a faith or a region, which is despisable by any citizen as good governance shall mean delivery of good governance to each of its citizens irrespective of faith, caste and region.

4. Even though started the life journey with Sevadal of slave India under british rule,later saw the sad demise of Sevadal, which was the link between governance and its feed back to those who govern the society.The sidelined sevadal saw the rise of slogan shouters who could muster slogan shouters for different parties as "cadres" with muscle and money power, irrespective of the parties. In the whole process, sycophancy in all political parties has left me wondering to be in partyless state of mind, as all parties have the same ills in differing measures. having tries all colours in my life journey, it has come as no surprise to me, in left, right or any politcal parties, ultimately common good governance takes backseat as selfish interests take over and the common man or aaqm admi remains where he was, with only wondering about the slogans initiated by different colours of the political spectrum. Be it the Garibi Hatao, or India shining or social justice, all that is seen i
n society is once the chance to govern is obtained by any party, nepotism, sycophancy and self interest with new slogans take hold of the nation thus society  again is lost with bad governance with 16 % for one faith, 15 % for some caste, 7.5 % for a tribe, 27 % for some more castes and the aam admi is still lost in promises, still struggling for a square meal a day, used as cadres to kill the dissenters, to kill others in another faith, to conduct genocide of a panth so that the "leader" can prove "loyalty" to his/her party, not the society that we live in. ?

 Regards.

----- Original Message -----
From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 6:40 pm
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrestedaDelhi-basedJournalist
To: Aman Sethi <aman.am at gmail.com>, Aarti Sethi <aarti.sethi at gmail.com>, sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>

> Dear Aman Sethi
>   
>  You have ascribed to me the wishing of "Hindutva cleansing of India"
>   
>  Will you please support that with quoting what I may have 
> written anyplace either directly stating that 'wish' or even by 
> implication. 
>   
>  Else I would expect that the 'journalist' that you are, you will 
> retract from your statement.
>   
>  Kshmendra Kaul  
> 
> Aman Sethi <aman.am at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I think we have finally got it: wittingly or unwittingly, i think
> aarti has hit upon the perfect way to respond to hate speech- poetry.
> Here is my two cents worth.
> 
> In the event of the Hindutva cleansing of India that Radhika, Dhatri,
> Pawan, Aditya, Kshemdra et al wish for:
> 
> How I came to love secularism.
> 
> They sit with their brows furrowed,
> Oh whatever can they do,
> The Muslims have finally up and gone,
> left us here to stew.
> 
> Kashmir Kashmir, that forgotten land,
> Its just not fun no more,
> Now that there;s no one contesting it,
> Living here is such a bore.
> 
> Even Modi says he misses them,
> "I meant it all in jest."
> Trust them to take it seriously,
> They've failed the "indian-ness" test.
> 
> Jai Siya ram has lost its ring
> Bharat ma ki sounds obscene
> Jai Hanuman wont rouse the crowds
> We need a change of scene.
> 
> Perhaps we could call them back
> Maybe if we are all polite
> And tell them that we're sorry
> It's no fun without a fight.
> 
> Damn this country's gone to the dumps.
> Till yesterday it was just swell
> Perhaps the Muslims figured it out.
> Maybe we should leave as well.
> 
> Boom Shiva
> a.
> 
> 
> But alas, they figured it out
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:45 PM, Aarti Sethi wrote:
> > Radhikarajen,
> >
> > As usual, in that unique style you have made your own, a 
> reasoned response
> > by someone who takes you up on the rubbish which is your post, 
> in this case
> > Shuddha, you respond with some incomprehensible drivel which is 
> totally off
> > topic, does not answer in any way the legitimate questions being 
> raised by
> > Shuddha, and confirms for us, once again, your exhausting boring
> > persistently bigoted presence on this list....what have we done 
> to deserve
> > you...
> >
> > Perhaps...
> >
> > we had a wicked childhood
> > Perhaps we had a miserable youth
> > Clearly somewhere in our wicked, miserable past
> > There must have been a moment of truth
> >
> > For there you are, standing there, boring us
> > Whether or not you should
> > So somewhere in our youth or childhood
> > We must have done something we shouldn't
> >
> > Nothing comes from nothing
> > Nothing ever could
> > So somewhere in our youth or childhood
> > We must have done something we shouldn't
> >
> >
> > Aarti
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:28 PM, wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > it is not at all surprising when thoughts of dissent are 
> expressed, the
> > > method of suppression are time tested and have not found 
> success, first, the
> > > step one is to discredit the person and not the thoughts, next 
> step two is
> > > holding out threats of "legal" actions, third step, use the 
> brute force, to
> > > harass phyisically, mentally by false cases, it is not new as 
> to how legally
> > > any dissenter can be cowed down by threats , violent protests.
> > > Nation has seen it in emergency days of a autocratic ruler.Now 
> with drug
> > > and kickbacks in deals money power is threatening to 
> extinguish the freedom,
> > > then centuries ago, one voice which told truth was poisoned, 
> one voice which
> > > explained that earth was revolving around the sun had the eyes 
> gauged out.
> > > But power of thought is such that if truthful, it remains in 
> the minds
> > > of the readers, they like it or not, support it or not, the 
> issue remains.
> > >
> > > New generations of India have doctored histrory of freedom 
> struggle of
> > > India, go with that as their perspective for the learning 
> experience. It is
> > > one voice from remote Maharashtra, of Bala gangadhar Thilak, 
> that inspired
> > > many others to become BalGangadhars of the struggle. It is one 
> voice of lala
> > > Lajpath rai that inspired many to become the lalaLajpath rai. 
> It is one
> > > voice of Bipin Chnandra Pal, that inspired many to be the 
> stronger voice for
> > > freedom. Ofcourse all the one voices were repressed brutally, 
> killed, but
> > > the struggle went on, as the fruits of freedom are now 
> enjoyed, all credit
> > > is to one family which had a person who hobnobbed with 
> viceroys, spent his
> > > confinement in guest houses, but the family took the surname 
> of Gandhi, to
> > > be mother of all sacrifices, wherein reality check, there are 
> thousands who
> > > sacrificed their life and livelihood to alll of us to have 
> freedom.> > Nethaji was not the first who passed ICS exam but 
> refused to serve under
> > > british regime, dissent cost him dear. Nehru who had failed 
> the ICS, after
> > > enrolling at british Bar Council came back as Barrister, but 
> issue here is
> > > was he a visionary that he is projected as for free India. ?
> > > The very same left parties which condemned Nethaji as fascist 
> supporter> > now have with them the Forward Block even though with 
> uncomfortable to share
> > > power, so let us not be sensitive to such oppressing threats of
> > > "defamation."
> > > Basic issue here is again, it is not about religion, or the 
> journalist,> > was he out on reportage of true facts or was he 
> reporting to his community
> > > of milli gazette, or was he reporting to all citizens of the 
> nation. ?
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: we wi 
> > > Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 6:07 pm
> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested
> > > aDelhi-basedJournalist
> > > To: reader-list at sarai.net
> > >
> > > > Haha Exhausted Suddhabrata,
> > > >
> > > > >>For all I care, you could be a Brahmo Samajist, a Seventh Day
> > > > Adventist, a
> > > > >>lapsed Roman Catholic, a de-sexed pagan cyobrg in dire 
> need of
> > > > >>therapy or a born-again, paranoiac, alcoholic (or abstinent)
> > > > Santan
> > > > >>Dharmi who spends way too much time on the internet.
> > > >
> > > > I contradict over and above with the term "alcoholic Santan
> > > > Dharmi"? What do you exactly mean by using that term? I observe
> > > > the possible conclusions as
> > > >
> > > > 1) One should not follow "Sanatan Dharm" at all?
> > > > 2) All ALCOHOLICS in INDIA or abroad mystifying the
> > > > world as "Sanatan Dharmis"?
> > > > 3) Those who are all following "Sanatan Dharm" are
> > > > ALCOHOLICS? 4) Those who ever following "Sanatan Dharm"
> > > > do belong to
> > > > BAJARANGDAL,VHP,BJP,RSS,SHIVSENA?
> > > > 5) "Sanatan Dharmis" not at all present in CONGRESS,CPI
> > > > and CPM?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Possibly the 2nd one is most suitable and correct anyway,
> > > >
> > > > Please let me know how much can be gained for a defamation 
> as I
> > > > am fighting a minor litigation, I am thinking to file a
> > > > "defamation" as well. I request you please don't ask a service
> > > > charge for this.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Dhatri.
> > > >
> > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote:
> > > > Radhikarajen,
> > > >
> > > > I am curious to know, where in the post by Arshad Amanullah you
> > > > have
> > > > read that the journalist, Nadim Ahmad, had violated any law? 
> Which> > > law do you think has been violated? Where (in Arshad's 
> posting) do
> > > > you find the evidence of this violation?
> > > >
> > > > The report forwarded by Arshad mentions the editor of Mr. 
> Ahmad's> > > newspaper citing conversations with a police officer 
> about the
> > > > journalist, his whereabouts and his assignment, and even the
> > > > police
> > > > officer who is quoted in the forwarded report does not seem to
> > > > indicate that the Mr. Ahmad had broken any law. Which leap of
> > > > imagination then impels you to make the assumption that he had?
> > > >
> > > > I find it disgusting that you should assume that the journalist
> > > > has
> > > > violated any law whatsoever, without any stated proof to that
> > > > effect.
> > > > All that we can surmise from reading the above mentioned 
> report is
> > > > that Mr. Ahmad was doing his job - making enquiries in a
> > > > completely
> > > > legitimate manner, as journalists are supposed to do. Morover,
> > > > nowhere, in the posting that Arshad has forwarded, is there any
> > > > reference to Mr. Ahmad's faith, or his relationship to an
> > > > organization called SIMI, and yet, I can see that you cannot
> > > > resist
> > > > the cheap temptation of stating that - (and I am quoting you
> > > > directly here)
> > > >
> > > > - "he is journalist (sic), that does not mean he is above 
> the law,
> > > > he
> > > > can do anything to go anywhere and even sheltor (sic), 
> support and
> > > > shield the few fanatics because he is journalist, that is when
> > > > conflict of interest comes in free India, when religion is 
> used to
> > > > propagate hatred, to foist violence, like the SIMI now banned
> > > > does.
> > > > If system of governance arrests a few, who are in subversion of
> > > > laws,
> > > > planning violent acts in the guise of religion and its freedom,
> > > > laws
> > > > have to take care of such deviant behaviour in free society."
> > > >
> > > > Where, in Arshad's posting do you find grounds to believe 
> that the
> > > > journalist, "sheltered, supported and shielded" any 
> "fanatics"? Is
> > > > it
> > > > only on the grounds of his name, and what we can learn about the
> > > > possibility of his beliefs, again on the basis of that name. 
> What> > > can
> > > > we learn on the basis of a name. If I take your name for 
> instance,> > > I
> > > > cannot even tell whether you are male or female, whether you are
> > > > Hindu, or a person of another faith, or no faith at all, who
> > > > happens
> > > > to have the Sanskrit names of a hindu deity (Radhika) and 
> the term
> > > > for a royal personage, (Rajen) attached to his/her name. For 
> all I
> > > > care, you could be a Brahmo Samajist, a Seventh Day 
> Adventist, a
> > > > lapsed Roman Catholic, a de-sexed pagan cyobrg in dire need of
> > > > therapy or a born-again, paranoiac, alcoholic (or abstinent)
> > > > Santan
> > > > Dharmi who spends way too much time on the internet. Your name
> > > > gives
> > > > me no real indication whatsoever, actually. And any negative
> > > > judgements that I, or anyone esle would make about you, your
> > > > motives,
> > > > your character, your personality on the basis of your name would
> > > > be
> > > > totally indefensible. If I had to make judgements, they 
> would have
> > > > to
> > > > rely on your actions and your statments, not your name.
> > > >
> > > > Now, let us assume that I was a journalist, trying to 
> investigate> > > the
> > > > detention of the activists of a supposedly 'Hindu' organization
> > > > like
> > > > the Bajrang Dal. Now let us further assume that I was 
> arrested, in
> > > > the course of doing so. Would you, or anyone else, then be taken
> > > > seriously, if you or they, made a statement to the effect 
> that I
> > > > was
> > > > arrested, because I was "sheltering, supporting and 
> shielding" the
> > > > activists of the Bajrang Dal (because Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> > > > sounds,
> > > > in an appropriately deadpan Sanskritic way, like an ostensibly
> > > > 'hindu' name, though it actually says next to nothing about my
> > > > personal convictions in the matter of religion).
> > > >
> > > > Such an allegation, if it were not backed by any substantive
> > > > proof,
> > > > would be patently absurd. Similarly, your implicit allegations
> > > > (which
> > > > infer connections and convergences of purpose between SIMI
> > > > activists
> > > > and Nadim Ahmad solely on the grounds of the incidental 0 and
> > > > therefore irrelevant - marker of Mr. Ahmad's name), are equally
> > > > absurd.
> > > > You, sir, or madam, or whatever you may be, are the true fanatic
> > > > here. You cannot resist making broad generalizations about other
> > > > peoples' character based on nothing other than the sound of 
> their> > > name. It really shows how narrow the bandwidth of your
> > > > intelligence
> > > > and your imagination is.
> > > >
> > > > I think you owe this list an apology, and I suggest that you 
> study> > > the Indian Penal Code carefully before making flimsy 
> allegations> > > about being above or below the law. The law can 
> be used quite
> > > > effectively against people like you who make baseless and wild
> > > > allegations about other people's character and conduct. I 
> suggest> > > you
> > > > take a careful look at section 499 of the Indian Penal Code, it
> > > > spells out the law of a crime called defamation. Be careful.
> > > >
> > > > no regards whatsoever, not to you, not this time,
> > > >
> > > > Shuddhabrata
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 08-Apr-08, at 6:21 PM, radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Losten my friend, he is journalist, that does not mean he is
> > > > above
> > > > > the law, he can do anything to go anywhere and even sheltor,
> > > > > support and shield the few fanatics because he is journalist,
> > > > that
> > > > > is when conflict of interest comes in free India, when 
> religion> > > is
> > > > > used to propagate hatred, to foist violence, like the SIMI now
> > > > > banned does. If system of governance arrests a few, who 
> are in
> > > > > subversion of laws, planning violent acts in the guise of
> > > > religion
> > > > > and its freedom, laws have to take care of such deviant
> > > > behaviour
> > > > > in free society. Be it a hindu, muslim or any faith, group of
> > > > > individuals who are traitors to the society for the "religion"
> > > > are
> > > > > not citizens who deserve to be spared as law has to take 
> care of
> > > > > such deviant behaviour., irrespective of the system of
> > > > governance,
> > > > > or the political party that rules the state, why is it 
> that some
> > > > > point out such incidents as if system is against the 
> faith, but
> > > > not
> > > > > against lawless behaviour by "journalist. ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regatrds.
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: arshad amanullah
> > > > > Date: Monday, April 7, 2008 10:42 pm
> > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested a 
> Delhi-
> > > >
> > > > > basedJournalist
> > > > > To: reader-list at sarai.net
> > > > >
> > > > >> www.milligazette.com
> > > > >>
> > > > >> New Delhi, 7 April 2008: Late last evening the police
> > > > >> in the BJP-ruled state of Madhya Pradesh arrested a
> > > > >> Delhi-based journalist who had gone there to report on
> > > > >> recent arrests in the state.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The journalist is Mr Nadim Ahmad, a staffer of The
> > > > >> Milli Gazette fortnightly English-language newspaper
> > > > >> published from Delhi since 2000.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Ahmad was arrested by the police early 6 April evening
> > > > >> in village Aroda/Choral under Balwada Police Station,
> > > > >> Distt Khargone, Indore Range. Contact with Ahmad was
> > > > >> possible until late in the evening on his mobile phone
> > > > >> (# 09911334768). However, since this morning he is not
> > > > >> picking up his phone while Police Inspector Sunil
> > > > >> Visthre (mobile # 09926670086), who took Ahmad in
> > > > >> custody, is not responding to calls on his mobile.
> > > > >> Enquiries with highest police officials in Indore have
> > > > >> failed to help trace the whereabout of the arrested
> > > > >> journalist. The Milli Gazette editor, Dr Zafarul-Islam
> > > > >> Khan, has written in this matter to Mr Shivraj Patil,
> > > > >> the Union Home Minister, MP Governor Mr Balram Jhakar,
> > > > >> MP Chief Minister Mr Shivraj Singh Chauhan, MP home
> > > > >> minister Mr. Himmat Kothari, as well as to top police
> > > > >> officials in MP state.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> If the journalist remains untraceable, Dr Khan plans
> > > > >> to file a habeas corpus suit in the Supreme Court of
> > > > >> India tomorrow, 8 April.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> [end]
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Issued by The Milli Gazette
> > > > >> D-84 Abul Fazal Enclave-I
> > > > >> Jamia Nagar, New Delhi 110 025
> > > > >> Tel. (011) 26942883, 26947483, 26952825
> > > > >> Email: edit at milligazette.com
> > > > >> Website: www.milligazette.com
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Following is the text of the letter sent by Dr
> > > > >> Zafarul-Islam Khan, Editor, The Milli Gazette, on 7
> > > > >> April 2008 via fax, email and courier to a number of
> > > > >> central and MP state authorities:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "This is to inform you that we are a registered
> > > > >> English-language fortnightly newspaper published
> > > > >> regularly since January 2000 (registered RNI number
> > > > >> DELENG/2000/930). A few days back we sent Mr Nadim
> > > > >> Ahmad, one of our full-time staff reporters, to
> > > > >> Sarangpur, Madhya Pradesh, to report on communal
> > > > >> violence there. At about same time news of arrests of
> > > > >> alleged SIMI members also came from an adjacent area
> > > > >> in the state, so I instructed him to go to Indore as
> > > > >> well to report on the situation there and to visit
> > > > >> some places from where arrests were made. Mr Ahmad
> > > > >> reached Indore yesterday, 6 April 2008, and after
> > > > >> making enquiries about the location of the concerned
> > > > >> areas, went to village Aroda/Choral under Balwada
> > > > >> Police Station, Distt Khargone, Indore Range (Thana
> > > > >> phone No. 07280-261237) whose in-charge is Town
> > > > >> Inspector Mr Sunil Visthre (mobile no. 09926670086).
> > > > >> Inspector Visthre spoke to me last night at around 8-9
> > > > >> pm using Mr Ahmad's mobile no. 09911334768 asking why
> > > > >> he was in the area. It was explained to him that Mr
> > > > >> Ahmad was a full-time staff reporter of this paper and
> > > > >> he was there at my instructions to report on the
> > > > >> recent arrests. Inspector Visthre told me that there
> > > > >> was nothing to worry about and Mr Ahmad is helping
> > > > >> enquiries and he is not under arrest.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> My last contact with Ahmad was at 11.06 pm yesterday
> > > > >> (6 April 08) on his mobile phone in which he said he
> > > > >> is alright and was answering questions by the police;
> > > > >> Inspector Visthre also spoke to me over the same phone
> > > > >> at that time and told me that there is nothing to
> > > > >> worry about as they were only trying to establish the
> > > > >> reason why Mr Nadim was in the area.. Mr Nadim Ahmad's
> > > > >> last call was at 1.28 am on 7-4-08 which I could not
> > > > >> receive as I had gone to bed by that time. In the
> > > > >> morning I tried to contact Mr Ahmad using his mobile
> > > > >> number but there was no response. Thereafter, I phoned
> > > > >> Balwada Thana at the above phone number and was
> > > > >> informed that Inspector Visthre has taken Mr Ahmad to
> > > > >> Indore in the morning at 6 AM. Efforts to contact Mr
> > > > >> Ahmad since then have failed; Inspector Visthre too is
> > > > >> not taking up calls to his mobile. After this, I
> > > > >> phoned Indore Superintendent of Police Mr Anshuman
> > > > >> Yadav on his mobile no. 09425115144 at 11.30 am (7
> > > > >> April 08). He told me that he had no information about
> > > > >> this matter.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> As of now, my apprehension is that Mr Nadim Ahmad has
> > > > >> been arrested and kept under custody at an unknown
> > > > >> place for no reason whatsoever as he was only
> > > > >> discharging his duties as a journalist to investigate
> > > > >> matters of common and media interest. I fear that
> > > > >> under the current charged atmosphere in the state of
> > > > >> Madhya Pradesh, Mr Ahmad may have been falsely
> > > > >> implicated in some matter and illegally deprived of
> > > > >> his liberty. I request you to immediately intervene in
> > > > >> this matter and ensure the freedom of press guaranteed
> > > > >> by our Constitution and laws."
> > > > >> _________________________________________
> > > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
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> > > >
> > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> > > > The Sarai Programme at CSDS
> > > > Raqs Media Collective
> > > > shuddha at sarai.net
> > > > www.sarai.net
> > > > www.raqsmediacollective.net
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________
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> > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net 
> with> > > subscribe in the subject header.
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with 
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> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-
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> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with 
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> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-
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