[Reader-list] Turtles, Tatas and Reva

[S. Jabbar]

Aman,

 You're right about the not in my backyard business.  That's why in my
initial enthusiasm with Tata BP Solar I had asked whether they could design
a solar powered battery charger that could tank up a Reva.  It shouldn't be
that hard to design esp if they can make solar powered water pumps for
irrigation.  But I got no response.  Maybe someone with engineering skills
on the sarai list can team up with Reva and start a revolution.

Incidentally, I stubbornly rode a bicycle from 1994-98 and only had to give
up because my lungs rebelled and I began breaking out in hives every
evening.  That was '98.  I can't imagine biking from Jangpura to Qutb today
even if I were paid.  For all the talk of bikes and bicycle lanes we'd
seriously need to address Delhi's insatiable appetite for latesht-model cars
before advocating the old atlas or hero.

For my part I can't wait for the metro.

Best
sj


On 4/22/08 4:11 PM, "Aman Sethi" <aman.am at gmail.com> wrote:

> No one who has covered the Tatas for any length of time actually
believes in
> their warm cuddly image - a examination of their work in
Lohandiguda in
> Chattisgarh reveals that local policemen - under the
instigation of Tata
> Steel- might even have resorted to rape to throw
villagers off their
> lands.

However, on the question of the Reva - a few things.

a) the Reva is
> actually a rather expensive car - at about 4 lakhs
on-road in Mumbai.  While
> it may be true that this is due to a poorly
structured subsidy regime( i dont
> know the details) , the Reva website
informs us that "Under the Income Tax
> Act, the REVA qualifies for an
80% depreciation on a Written Down Value (WDV)
> basis, as compared to
20% for other cars. This means an unbelievable excess
> tax saving of
over 21% of the cost of the car in the first year itself.In cash
> flow
terms this means that the REVA makes the most car sense. " So there
are
> govt incentives for it.

b)I am not sure how much more sense an electric car
> makes.
Electricity is also subsidised in India - the slab system means
> that
industrial rates of power are substantially higher than domestic
rates.
> Further, electricity production can be as ecologically
devastating as other
> forms of energy.  Electric vehicles tend to
follow the "not in my backyard"
> concept of pollution.  In fact,
calling the car a REVA - ie narmada might
> actually be rather perverse
given that the sardar sarovar dam is allegedly
> supposed to provide
3.4 crore units of electricitya day (i .  The nuclear deal
> is being
pushed allegedly to meet our electricity crunch; the Teesta project
> in
the nort east is supposed ot provide electricity and a major reason
for
> Indian meddling in Nepal is allegedly to gain control of their
hydro power.
> And finally, Tata Power is India's largest private power
utility - so by
> buying the Reva, you actually buying into the Tata
dream machine all over
> again. If you drive a Reva in Mumbai or West
Delhi - chances are u are using
> Tata electricity.

c) Our utopian city should not be one full of REVAs, and it
> should not
be one full of Nanos either .. it should ideally be full of
> bicycles
and public transport ..and roads designed for cyclists and
> rickshaw
pullers rather than automobile users - perhaps the ideal vehicle
> could
be a cross between the Nano and Reva - small, cheap and
> non-polluting.
We could call it the Never

In good humour
a.


On Tue, Apr 22,
> 2008 at 2:09 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta
<shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
> Dear
> Sonia, Tapas, Radhikarajen, and everyone else,
>
> Many thanks Sonia, for
> bringing our attention to the Tata versus
> Turtle question. I share all your
> concerns about the hype around the
> Nano, and Tata diesel guzzlers in
> general. I think they (and other
> corporations, including those based in
> India, or with an Indian
> history) need to be recognized for their high level
> of Corporate
> Irresponsibility and contribution to the sharpening of the
> lethal
> edge of global capitalism.
>
> I have been a fan of the Reva for a
> while, and have always wondered
> why more of them are not around. And why
> they attract neither
> support, nor subsidies. Is it because 'Reva' is another
> name for the
> river 'Narmada' - a name that is no longer uttered in polite
> circles
> in Delhi and Mumbai, in case you were branded some kind of
> luddite,
> anti-national, terrorist.
>
> Apparently, in a city like London,
> the quietly humming engineering
> success that is the Reva is not such an
> embarassment. London has a
> thriving Reva market.  London has a 'congestion
> charge' aimed at
> discouraging people from driving cars into the city and
> using more
> public transport. The Reva (marketed successfully in London as
> the G-
> Wiz) is one of the vehicles exempt from the very high congestion
>
> charge. Also, from the spring of this year, London will have many
> 'charging
> points' where Revas can be conveniently 'charged' up. Now
> think, if, instead
> the pornographic excess that surrounds the launch
> of new cars in india,
> there would be some sensible and rational
> attention to alternatives like the
> Reva, which are inexpensive, safe
> (at city driving speeds) and green. How
> would that be? There could be
> incentives passed on to the consumer if they
> drove Revas in the form
> of tax cuts, lesser parking charges, (or exemption
> from cumpolsory -
> 'off road' rules for certain days of the week, by
> rotation, - which
> could be then applied on to diesel and petrol
> guzzlers).
>
> But, do we hear, or see, as much about the Reva, as we do about
> the
> Nano. Does Barkha Dutt drool at the mouth interviewing the Bangalore
>
> based engineers who dreamed up the Reva in the same way as she does
> when she
> sits face to face with Ratan Tata? Not likely.
>
> That is not the way things
> crumble. Powerful automobile industry
> lobbies, which include the Tatas, have
> the government, every
> political party, and the media in their pockets, in
> India, and run a
> well oiled PR machine. I noticed, some time ago, that when
> the Nanon
> was launched, within a few days, gushing and holier than thou, op
> ed
> pieces appeared in several newspapers, defending the 'little
> Indian's'
> right to an cchota-sa car of their own against what was
> called the 'elitist'
> calumny of green activists. The interesting
> thing is, no one had actually
> said anything against the Nano. Which
> means, the car-lobby had press
> releases, op-eds and first person
> defences of the little car all ready, in
> case there was aopposition.
> It was all timed to be unleashed, a few days
> after the launch of the
> car. The launch happened, there was no criticism,
> but the somewhat
> pointless counter-attack in defence of the Nano was
> unleashed anyway,
> exposing the workings of a well oiled machine.
>
> As
> India's dependence on the diesel and petrol powered automobiles
> increases,
> the demand for this kind of polluting energy will also
> increase. If all
> those who will buy the Nano, have to drive the Nano,
> there will be a demand
> for a lot more gas, and at affordable prices,
> the industry that propels this
> demand will grow greedy. It will
> demand access to more energy, more fuel,
> just as it does in the US,
> or France, or Japan. It will push India into
> aggressive acquisitions
> of energy assets elsewhwere in the world. The gas
> guzzling car is
> already tied into a logic of nationalism intoxicated with
> itself. It
> may not take long for this intoxication to thicken into the
> first
> Indian Imperialist misadventures, as Indian troops go marching to
>
> keep the Tata-Mittal machine running.
>
> You read it first, here.
>
>
> best
>
> Shuddha
>
>
> On 22-Apr-08, at 12:07 PM, radhikarajen at vsnl.net
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> >  the releases regarding the ridley turtles, Tatas'
> adventures with
> > port and integreted steel plant and port, then
> misadventure at
> > Singur made any citizens think of the lengths the
> industrial barons
> > go to enrich themselves.
> >
> >   While huble REVA is
> good electricity powered vehicle is finding
> > it difficult to make itself
> affordable, electircally charged
> > scootys and two wheelers are trying their
> best to find market, the
> > hyped one lakh car manufactured over the hungry
> bellies of poor
> > farmers and farm labour at Singur is the new tryst with
> destiny in
> > the nation, the capitalism makes rich make more of wealth
> with
> > unequal distribution of wealth, socialism has one unique feature,
> >
> it distributes poverty uniformaly.
> >
> >   Tatas for all practical purposes
> got the land at throw away
> > prices combined with state oppression and
> undisguised force to
> > equip themselves of the lands, this mini car again
> will be
> > richmens' toy when it comes in to market. The emission levels of
>
> > tata vehicles are so high, that no authority seems to have courage
> > to
> see the smoke bellowing out of the exhausts of the diesel
> > vehicles. !
>
> >
> >  Regards,
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "S. Jabbar"
> <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com>
> > Date: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:53 am
> >
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Olive Ridley turtles
> > To: Tapas Ray
> <tapasrayx at gmail.com>, sarai list <reader-
> > list at sarai.net>
> >
> >>
> Tapas,
> >>
> >> Thanks for your mail detailing Tata's Gopalpur activities.
> I
> >> really think
> >> the large corporations who go to town advertising
> their corporate
> >> responsibility ought to be exposed for what they are.
>
> >>
> >> I was really excited about Tata BP solar at first when I
> >>
> discovered they had
> >> many products oriented towards the individual
> consumer.  I wanted
> >> to install
> >> a solar powered inverter in my
> apartment this summer.  Try finding an
> >> outlet— it was near impossible.
> So I got in touch with them
> >> through their
> >> website. No response. So I
> wrote off an angry email and finally
> >> someone sent
> >> me a number of a
> distributor. I called him.  The price was
> >> exorbitant, at
> >> least
> 20,000 Rs. more than a regular inverter! I rapidly lost
> >> interest. He
> >>
> was a nice guy so we had a long chat about the ridiculousness of the
> >>
> situation, how things were overpriced and there was no govt.
> >> subsidy for
> the
> >> urban consumer and no Tata subsidy either.  Surely if they priced
>
> >> themselvesreasonably they would have enough demand for the product
> >> to
> be profitable in
> >> the long run.  Surely they know this, so why don't they
> do it?
> >>
> >> My other grouse is about their smoke belching diesel
> vehicles.  My
> >> love of
> >> the mountains often takes me to places like
> Ladakh, Lahaul and
> >> Spiti.  Next
> >> time you are there remember to look
> at the hillsides along the
> >> highways,particularly on corners.  Because
> there is no vegetation
> >> it is easy to see
> >> the effect of Diesel
> trucks.  The rocks are black with deposits.
> >> It is
> >> disgusting that
> companies like the Tatas have been allowed to
> >> continue to
> >> produce
> sub-standard engines in their trucks and buses .  Why
> >> aren't they
> >>
> subjected to emission norms?  They really ought to be taxed
> >> heavily
> when
> >> entering the high Himalayas with their very fragile eco systems
> >>
> and  made to
> >> clean up the rock faces at the very least.
> >>
> >> And
> then the much touted one lakh Nano.  How I would have rejoiced
> >> if all
>
> >> the R&D had gone into producing a one lakh electric car!  BTW poor
> >>
> REVA,  I
> >> believe they don't get any support from the Go I.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> Best
> >> sj
> >>
> >>
> >> On 4/21/08 8:16 PM, "Tapas Ray"
> <tapasrayx at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Sonia,
> >>
> >> Thanks for forwarding
> this release. I agree with you that one need
> >>> not
> >> go starry-eyed
> about Tata. Look at the way it has steamrolled over a
> >> large
> >>> section
> of people unwilling to give up their land in Singur
> >> (West Bengal),
> >>>
> helped by an obliging state government and CPI(M).
> >>
> >> A little over a
> decade
> >>> ago, as a journalist, I covered the popular
> >> opposition it
> was encountering in
> >>> Gopalpur-on-Sea (Orissa) for its
> >> plan to set up
> an integrated steel plant,
> >>> take over the small local
> >> port and turn
> it into a large one, etc. Predictably,
> >>> the state
> >> government (of
> Orissa) was bending over backwards, sending in
> >>> police,
> >> to carry out
> its wishes. There were clashes, roads were dug up,
> >>> etc.
> >>
> >> I
> believe the company has had - or is going to have - its way
> >>> despite
> >>
> all that resistance ... perhaps more than it had bargained for at
> >>> that
>
> >> time, because later there was talk of an SEZ. As we know, these SEZs
> >>
> are
> >>> nothing but militarised outposts - considering the way their
> >>
> administrative
> >>> structure has been planned - of global capitalism, on
>
> >> whose block Tata is now
> >>> the new kid, and is duly revered for this
> by
> >> state governments and political
> >>> parties across the spectrum in
> India,
> >> from Gujarat to West Bengal.
> >>
> >> I used to
> >>> think that
> the Tata group is an enlightened one, but have
> >> been rather unsure
> >>>
> of that since I saw what they were up to in
> >> Gopalpur.
> >>
> >> A side
> note - there is
> >>> a parallel between our SEZs and Shanghai. My
> >>
> suggestion to the state and
> >>> central governments in India: if you want
>
> >> to emulate China, don't beat about
> >>> the bush; just turn the whole
> >>
> country into one big Shanghai.
> >>
> >> Another side
> >>> note, this one
> about Greenpeace: Some months ago, in one
> >> of their newsletters,
> >>>
> they were talking about "green Apple". A couple
> >> of months later, they
> realised
> >>> that Apple wasn't that green after all.
> >> I think they need
> to be more careful
> >>> with their assessment of
> >> corporations and
> governments.
> >>
> >> Tapas
> >>
> >>
> >> On 21/04/2008,
> >>> S. Jabbar
> <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> From the Greenpeace campaign for
> >>>
> the Olive Ridley Turtles.  Not that I find
> >>>  the TATA environmental
> record
> >>> that great...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  Why Save the turtles?
> >>>
>
> >>>
> >>>  Consider thisŠ Olive Ridley
> >>> turtles rely on an inexplicable,
> in-built
> >>>  navigation system that guides
> >>> them, when it¹s time for
> them to reproduce,
> >>>  back to the precise coast on
> >>> which they were
> born.
> >>>
> >>>  Now consider something elseŠ The proposed Tata port
> >>>
> at Dhamra threatens a
> >>>  nesting site that is amongst the last honeymoon
>
> >>> suites for the remaining
> >>>  Olive Ridleys, a highly-endangered species
> that
> >>> swims all the way here from
> >>>  places as far away as Australia
> and the
> >>> Philippines.
> >>>
> >>>  When you consider these two facts
> together, it seems only
> >>> logical that Tata
> >>>  would reconsider its
> decision to build the port at
> >>> Dhamra, and build it in
> >>>  an area
> that¹s less ecologically sensitive. It
> >>> seems especially logical when
>
> >>>  it¹s Tata we¹re talking about.
> >>>
> >>>  After
> >>> all, Tata has
> grown from a national giant into an international
> >>>  player,
> >>> while
> constantly stating its commitment to the principles of social
> >>>
> >>>
> upliftment, environmental justice and sustainable development.
> >> The Tata
>
> >>>
> >>> brand is ubiquitous, present in hundreds of products that have
> >>
> genuinely>
> >>> improved the lives of generations of Indians; from the Tata
> salt
> >> that>
> >>> flavours our daily bread, the Tata BP solar geyser that
> warms
> >> our winter
> >>>
> >>> baths, the Tata Telecom that manages our
> communications, to the
> >> Tata cars>
> >>> that Œdrive a billion dreams.¹
>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  And yet, in Orissa, we¹re witnessing a
> >>> different side
> to the same Tata. A
> >>>  Tata that shuts its ears to reason. A
> >>> Tata
> that looks the other way when
> >>>  confronted with evidence. A Tata that
>
> >>> cares nothing for the community, and
> >>>  even less for nature.
> >>>
>
> >>>  The port
> >>> Tata is proposing to build in Dhamra will directly affect
> the Olive
> >>>  Ridley
> >>> turtles. With 150,000 to 350,000 Olive Ridley
> turtles nesting in the
> >>>
> >>> vicinity, the average number of hatchlings
> is believed to range
> >> from 15
> >>>
> >>> million to 35 million.
> >>>
>
> >>>  When confronted by Greenpeace Tata promised
> >>> concerned citizens that
> it would
> >>>  abandon the port Œif evidence of turtle
> >>> presence and the
> ecological
> >>>  significance of the area were ever
> >>> unearthed.¹
> >>>
>
> >>>
> >>>  The evidence was submitted , but this promise wasn¹t kept.
> >>>
> The perfunctory
> >>>  EIA carried out in this area isn't worth the paper
> it's
> >>> printed on. Another
> >>>  nesting season has passed us by, with
> turtle mortality
> >>> from mechanized
> >>>  fishing agonizingly high. Coming
> in addition to this annual
> >>> death toll, the
> >>>  Tata port could be the
> final nail in the turtle¹s coffin,
> >>> ensuring that this
> >>>  area is
> never safe for turtles again.
> >>>
> >>>  Will this
> >>> willful destruction
> be the legacy that Tata leaves behind in
> >>>  Orissa?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Not
> if you can help it.
> >>>
> >>>  Please do what I've done. Write directly to
> Ratan
> >>> by clicking here
> >>>
> >>>
> <http://www.greenpeace.org/india/turtles/write-to-tata>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
> >>> _________________________________________
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>
> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
>
> The Sarai Programme at CSDS
> Raqs Media Collective
> shuddha at sarai.net
>
> www.sarai.net
> www.raqsmediacollective.net
>
>
>
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