[Reader-list] Turtles, Tatas and Reva

Rohit Shetti rohitism at gmail.com
Wed Apr 23 14:12:31 IST 2008 

www.thestoryofstuff.com

I think watching this short semi-animation film would add a lot of
perspective to this discussion. Please do check it out.

regards,

Rohit


On 4/23/08, radhikarajen at vsnl.net <radhikarajen at vsnl.net> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>   it is not subsidy that is needed, it is the change in the mindset of
> citizens of the nation, the mind to be sharing and caring at the starting
> point of their own homes first. A person having the car, driving with single
> passenger in the car is the ultimate show of vanity, let charity begin at
> home, mohalla, locality by sharing the car, pooling together the resources
> and care and share for each other. In cities when one sees a single person
> in huge cars, is it not criminal wste of scarce national resources. ?
> System can also address the public transport system in more humane and
> practical methods such as good management. Chennai has one of the best
> transport system with buses with good frequency where as Delhi and bangalore
> are at the worst in management of public fleets of buses, is my thoughts.
> Regards.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rohan DSouza <virtuallyme at gmail.com>
> Date: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:43 pm
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Turtles, Tatas and Reva
> To: reader-list at sarai.net
>
> > hi shudhabrata,
> >
> > agree with you on the need (and also the lack) of push in the form of
> > subsidies for the reva. if and when that happens, would also,
> > apart from of
> > course ridding the scenery from smoke, pave the way for public
> > discussionand debate on the sources of electricty and the need for
> > cleaner and
> > renewable ones.
> >
> > rgds,
> > rohan
> >
> > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net>
> > > Subject: [Reader-list] Turtles, Tatas and Reva
> > > To: radhikarajen at vsnl.net
> > > Cc: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>, Tapas Ray
> > >        <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
> > > Message-ID: <FE4BF5FD-94A1-4879-9705-A71D736849BD at sarai.net>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="WINDOWS-1252"; delsp=yes;
> > >        format=flowed
> > >
> > > Dear Sonia, Tapas, Radhikarajen, and everyone else,
> > >
> > > Many thanks Sonia, for bringing our attention to the Tata versus
> > > Turtle question. I share all your concerns about the hype around the
> > > Nano, and Tata diesel guzzlers in general. I think they (and other
> > > corporations, including those based in India, or with an Indian
> > > history) need to be recognized for their high level of Corporate
> > > Irresponsibility and contribution to the sharpening of the lethal
> > > edge of global capitalism.
> > >
> > > I have been a fan of the Reva for a while, and have always wondered
> > > why more of them are not around. And why they attract neither
> > > support, nor subsidies. Is it because 'Reva' is another name for the
> > > river 'Narmada' - a name that is no longer uttered in polite circles
> > > in Delhi and Mumbai, in case you were branded some kind of luddite,
> > > anti-national, terrorist.
> > >
> > > Apparently, in a city like London, the quietly humming engineering
> > > success that is the Reva is not such an embarassment. London has a
> > > thriving Reva market.  London has a 'congestion charge' aimed at
> > > discouraging people from driving cars into the city and using more
> > > public transport. The Reva (marketed successfully in London as
> > the G-
> > > Wiz) is one of the vehicles exempt from the very high congestion
> > > charge. Also, from the spring of this year, London will have many
> > > 'charging points' where Revas can be conveniently 'charged' up. Now
> > > think, if, instead the pornographic excess that surrounds the launch
> > > of new cars in india, there would be some sensible and rational
> > > attention to alternatives like the Reva, which are inexpensive, safe
> > > (at city driving speeds) and green. How would that be? There
> > could be
> > > incentives passed on to the consumer if they drove Revas in the form
> > > of tax cuts, lesser parking charges, (or exemption from
> > cumpolsory -
> > > 'off road' rules for certain days of the week, by rotation, - which
> > > could be then applied on to diesel and petrol guzzlers).
> > >
> > > But, do we hear, or see, as much about the Reva, as we do about the
> > > Nano. Does Barkha Dutt drool at the mouth interviewing the Bangalore
> > > based engineers who dreamed up the Reva in the same way as she does
> > > when she sits face to face with Ratan Tata? Not likely.
> > >
> > > That is not the way things crumble. Powerful automobile industry
> > > lobbies, which include the Tatas, have the government, every
> > > political party, and the media in their pockets, in India, and
> > run a
> > > well oiled PR machine. I noticed, some time ago, that when the Nanon
> > > was launched, within a few days, gushing and holier than thou,
> > op ed
> > > pieces appeared in several newspapers, defending the 'little
> > > Indian's' right to an cchota-sa car of their own against what was
> > > called the 'elitist' calumny of green activists. The interesting
> > > thing is, no one had actually said anything against the Nano. Which
> > > means, the car-lobby had press releases, op-eds and first person
> > > defences of the little car all ready, in case there was aopposition.
> > > It was all timed to be unleashed, a few days after the launch of the
> > > car. The launch happened, there was no criticism, but the somewhat
> > > pointless counter-attack in defence of the Nano was unleashed
> > anyway,> exposing the workings of a well oiled machine.
> > >
> > > As India's dependence on the diesel and petrol powered automobiles
> > > increases, the demand for this kind of polluting energy will also
> > > increase. If all those who will buy the Nano, have to drive the
> > Nano,> there will be a demand for a lot more gas, and at
> > affordable prices,
> > > the industry that propels this demand will grow greedy. It will
> > > demand access to more energy, more fuel, just as it does in the US,
> > > or France, or Japan. It will push India into aggressive acquisitions
> > > of energy assets elsewhwere in the world. The gas guzzling car is
> > > already tied into a logic of nationalism intoxicated with
> > itself. It
> > > may not take long for this intoxication to thicken into the first
> > > Indian Imperialist misadventures, as Indian troops go marching to
> > > keep the Tata-Mittal machine running.
> > >
> > > You read it first, here.
> > >
> > > best
> > >
> > > Shuddha
> > >
> > >
> > > On 22-Apr-08, at 12:07 PM, radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > >  the releases regarding the ridley turtles, Tatas' adventures with
> > > > port and integreted steel plant and port, then misadventure at
> > > > Singur made any citizens think of the lengths the industrial
> > barons> > go to enrich themselves.
> > > >
> > > >   While huble REVA is good electricity powered vehicle is finding
> > > > it difficult to make itself affordable, electircally charged
> > > > scootys and two wheelers are trying their best to find market, the
> > > > hyped one lakh car manufactured over the hungry bellies of poor
> > > > farmers and farm labour at Singur is the new tryst with
> > destiny in
> > > > the nation, the capitalism makes rich make more of wealth with
> > > > unequal distribution of wealth, socialism has one unique feature,
> > > > it distributes poverty uniformaly.
> > > >
> > > >   Tatas for all practical purposes got the land at throw away
> > > > prices combined with state oppression and undisguised force to
> > > > equip themselves of the lands, this mini car again will be
> > > > richmens' toy when it comes in to market. The emission levels of
> > > > tata vehicles are so high, that no authority seems to have courage
> > > > to see the smoke bellowing out of the exhausts of the diesel
> > > > vehicles. !
> > > >
> > > >  Regards,
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "S. Jabbar" <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com>
> > > > Date: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:53 am
> > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Olive Ridley turtles
> > > > To: Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>, sarai list <reader-
> > > > list at sarai.net>
> > > >
> > > >> Tapas,
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks for your mail detailing Tata's Gopalpur activities. I
> > > >> really think
> > > >> the large corporations who go to town advertising their corporate
> > > >> responsibility ought to be exposed for what they are.
> > > >>
> > > >> I was really excited about Tata BP solar at first when I
> > > >> discovered they had
> > > >> many products oriented towards the individual consumer.  I wanted
> > > >> to install
> > > >> a solar powered inverter in my apartment this summer.  Try
> > finding an
> > > >> outlet— it was near impossible.  So I got in touch with them
> > > >> through their
> > > >> website. No response. So I wrote off an angry email and finally
> > > >> someone sent
> > > >> me a number of a distributor. I called him.  The price was
> > > >> exorbitant, at
> > > >> least 20,000 Rs. more than a regular inverter! I rapidly lost
> > > >> interest. He
> > > >> was a nice guy so we had a long chat about the ridiculousness
> > of the
> > > >> situation, how things were overpriced and there was no govt.
> > > >> subsidy for the
> > > >> urban consumer and no Tata subsidy either.  Surely if they priced
> > > >> themselvesreasonably they would have enough demand for the
> > product> >> to be profitable in
> > > >> the long run.  Surely they know this, so why don't they do it?
> > > >>
> > > >> My other grouse is about their smoke belching diesel
> > vehicles.  My
> > > >> love of
> > > >> the mountains often takes me to places like Ladakh, Lahaul and
> > > >> Spiti.  Next
> > > >> time you are there remember to look at the hillsides along the
> > > >> highways,particularly on corners.  Because there is no vegetation
> > > >> it is easy to see
> > > >> the effect of Diesel trucks.  The rocks are black with deposits.
> > > >> It is
> > > >> disgusting that companies like the Tatas have been allowed to
> > > >> continue to
> > > >> produce sub-standard engines in their trucks and buses .  Why
> > > >> aren't they
> > > >> subjected to emission norms?  They really ought to be taxed
> > > >> heavily when
> > > >> entering the high Himalayas with their very fragile eco systems
> > > >> and  made to
> > > >> clean up the rock faces at the very least.
> > > >>
> > > >> And then the much touted one lakh Nano.  How I would have
> > rejoiced> >> if all
> > > >> the R&D had gone into producing a one lakh electric car!  BTW
> > poor> >> REVA,  I
> > > >> believe they don't get any support from the Go I.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Best
> > > >> sj
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 4/21/08 8:16 PM, "Tapas Ray" <tapasrayx at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Sonia,
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks for forwarding this release. I agree with you that one
> > need> >>> not
> > > >> go starry-eyed about Tata. Look at the way it has steamrolled
> > over a
> > > >> large
> > > >>> section of people unwilling to give up their land in Singur
> > > >> (West Bengal),
> > > >>> helped by an obliging state government and CPI(M).
> > > >>
> > > >> A little over a decade
> > > >>> ago, as a journalist, I covered the popular
> > > >> opposition it was encountering in
> > > >>> Gopalpur-on-Sea (Orissa) for its
> > > >> plan to set up an integrated steel plant,
> > > >>> take over the small local
> > > >> port and turn it into a large one, etc. Predictably,
> > > >>> the state
> > > >> government (of Orissa) was bending over backwards, sending in
> > > >>> police,
> > > >> to carry out its wishes. There were clashes, roads were dug up,
> > > >>> etc.
> > > >>
> > > >> I believe the company has had - or is going to have - its way
> > > >>> despite
> > > >> all that resistance ... perhaps more than it had bargained
> > for at
> > > >>> that
> > > >> time, because later there was talk of an SEZ. As we know,
> > these SEZs
> > > >> are
> > > >>> nothing but militarised outposts - considering the way their
> > > >> administrative
> > > >>> structure has been planned - of global capitalism, on
> > > >> whose block Tata is now
> > > >>> the new kid, and is duly revered for this by
> > > >> state governments and political
> > > >>> parties across the spectrum in India,
> > > >> from Gujarat to West Bengal.
> > > >>
> > > >> I used to
> > > >>> think that the Tata group is an enlightened one, but have
> > > >> been rather unsure
> > > >>> of that since I saw what they were up to in
> > > >> Gopalpur.
> > > >>
> > > >> A side note - there is
> > > >>> a parallel between our SEZs and Shanghai. My
> > > >> suggestion to the state and
> > > >>> central governments in India: if you want
> > > >> to emulate China, don't beat about
> > > >>> the bush; just turn the whole
> > > >> country into one big Shanghai.
> > > >>
> > > >> Another side
> > > >>> note, this one about Greenpeace: Some months ago, in one
> > > >> of their newsletters,
> > > >>> they were talking about "green Apple". A couple
> > > >> of months later, they realised
> > > >>> that Apple wasn't that green after all.
> > > >> I think they need to be more careful
> > > >>>with their assessment of
> > > >> corporations and governments.
> > > >>
> > > >> Tapas
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 21/04/2008,
> > > >>> S. Jabbar <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> From the Greenpeace campaign for
> > > >>> the Olive Ridley Turtles.  Not that I find
> > > >>>  the TATA environmental record
> > > >>> that great...
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>  Why Save the turtles?
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>  Consider thisŠ Olive Ridley
> > > >>> turtles rely on an inexplicable, in-built
> > > >>>  navigation system that guides
> > > >>> them, when it¹s time for them to reproduce,
> > > >>>  back to the precise coast on
> > > >>> which they were born.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>  Now consider something elseŠ The proposed Tata port
> > > >>> at Dhamra threatens a
> > > >>>  nesting site that is amongst the last honeymoon
> > > >>> suites for the remaining
> > > >>>  Olive Ridleys, a highly-endangered species that
> > > >>> swims all the way here from
> > > >>>  places as far away as Australia and the
> > > >>> Philippines.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>  When you consider these two facts together, it seems only
> > > >>> logical that Tata
> > > >>>  would reconsider its decision to build the port at
> > > >>> Dhamra, and build it in
> > > >>>  an area that¹s less ecologically sensitive. It
> > > >>> seems especially logical when
> > > >>>  it¹s Tata we¹re talking about.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>  After
> > > >>> all, Tata has grown from a national giant into an international
> > > >>>  player,
> > > >>> while constantly stating its commitment to the principles of
> > social> >>>
> > > >>> upliftment, environmental justice and sustainable development.
> > > >> The Tata
> > > >>>
> > > >>> brand is ubiquitous, present in hundreds of products that have
> > > >> genuinely>
> > > >>> improved the lives of generations of Indians; from the Tata salt
> > > >> that>
> > > >>> flavours our daily bread, the Tata BP solar geyser that warms
> > > >> our winter
> > > >>>
> > > >>> baths, the Tata Telecom that manages our communications, to the
> > > >> Tata cars>
> > > >>> that Œdrive a billion dreams.¹
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>  And yet, in Orissa, we¹re witnessing a
> > > >>> different side to the same Tata. A
> > > >>>  Tata that shuts its ears to reason. A
> > > >>> Tata that looks the other way when
> > > >>>  confronted with evidence. A Tata that
> > > >>> cares nothing for the community, and
> > > >>>  even less for nature.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>  The port
> > > >>> Tata is proposing to build in Dhamra will directly affect
> > the Olive
> > > >>>  Ridley
> > > >>> turtles. With 150,000 to 350,000 Olive Ridley turtles
> > nesting in the
> > > >>>
> > > >>> vicinity, the average number of hatchlings is believed to range
> > > >> from 15
> > > >>>
> > > >>> million to 35 million.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>  When confronted by Greenpeace Tata promised
> > > >>> concerned citizens that it would
> > > >>>  abandon the port Œif evidence of turtle
> > > >>> presence and the ecological
> > > >>>  significance of the area were ever
> > > >>> unearthed.¹
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>  The evidence was submitted , but this promise wasn¹t kept.
> > > >>> The perfunctory
> > > >>>  EIA carried out in this area isn't worth the paper it's
> > > >>> printed on. Another
> > > >>>  nesting season has passed us by, with turtle mortality
> > > >>> from mechanized
> > > >>>  fishing agonizingly high. Coming in addition to this annual
> > > >>> death toll, the
> > > >>>  Tata port could be the final nail in the turtle¹s coffin,
> > > >>> ensuring that this
> > > >>>  area is never safe for turtles again.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>  Will this
> > > >>> willful destruction be the legacy that Tata leaves behind in
> > > >>>  Orissa?
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Not if you can help it.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>  Please do what I've done. Write directly to Ratan
> > > >>> by clicking here
> > > >>>
> > > >>> <http://www.greenpeace.org/india/turtles/write-to-tata>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _________________________________________
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