[Reader-list] Gun Salutes for August 15

[Aditya Raj Kaul]

Dear R.Chaudhuri,



  Thanks for your reply. I never told you to only read these old newspapers
again (that is if you have really read them at the first place); I just
asked all in a humble way to think with a different perspective for a
change.



I'll narrate something to you on this; which I got to know from someone
on this episode. A few days back a senior official of Food Cooperation of
India called up his J&K Counterpart to verify on this media hype of
"Economic Blockade". The person from the other side said, "Yes sir, Economic
Blockade hai". FCI official asked, "How come?". How can you say that?". The
man further replied "Jenab, har kahin shor hai ki economic blockade hai"



This is what has happened. It is a cry over something, which never
really happened. Later, a journalist friend from Delhi called up many
Traders in Delhi's Aazad Pur Mandi, asking about the same. The Traders said
that all trucks were coming; and it was a season of brisk business.



Army on the other hand has ensured that all trucks to Kashmir valley ply
safely; but on the other hand Jammu city and neighboring areas have been
totally cut off with supplies for almost 40 days. I bet you never had a
thought about it. I request you to personally visit the Lakhanpur - Jammu -
Srinagar Highway and see what the ground reality is. It is just too amusing
to see posts and also those few people, screaming on news channels about
unavailability of "Baby Milk, Food, etc etc". They have stooped really low
this time around to gain publicity and world sympathy. A perfect PR
Strategy.



I can't believe that farmers + orchard owners in the valley are poor. Not
only because I belong to the valley and know the worth of these multi-crore
orchards; because I've interacted with few of them.



On the second part of your post; let me tell you that the President of Jammu
Resident Doctors Association is a Muslim named Dr. Arshad. And, he was the
one who gave a call for full support to the Sanghash Samiti. Need I say more
?



I'm sure even by mistake you must have caught images of people jumping into
the Tawi river as a mark of protest (innovative indeed!). It wasn't just
your RSS/BJP. Those people were led by Sikhs and majority of people were
Gujjars+Muslims and of course Hindus; holding the tricolor high in the air;
and also a symbol of Lord Shiva - The Trishul. Its again unfortunate for
people who accuse Hindus of having arms (Trishuls). I think they high time
need to study history of religions. Isn't AK47 which was used by Terrorist
Yasin Malik to kill Hindus and of course even his own people; a weapon?



Jammu has been the best example of Hindu-Muslim-Sikh unity in these 46 days
of protest. Unfortunately, in Kashmir we see communal slogans; Hindu
Truckers and at times even Amaranth Pilgrims being attacked. Not to say,
disinformation campaign is in its peak.



Now, people can better judge; who adds fuel into the fire....



Regards
Aditya Raj Kaul

On 8/15/08, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
>
>  Dear Aditya Raj Kaul, Dear Sonia Jabbar,
>
>
> Many thanks for your responses to my post earlier today. And apologies in
> advance for what is going to be a longish posting. So those not interested
> in the Amarnath row, or Jammu and Kashmir, may please skip this post.
>
>
> It is difficult to put all one's points across in a single posting,
> (without making it unwieldy) and so I am grateful that your responses have
> given me an opportunity to make some necessary elaborations.
>
>
> First of all, let me categorically state that Sonia, by pointing towards
> the violence that farmers faced in Greater Noida yesterday, and by referring
> to the histories of the Narmada agitation, and the Nandigram issue has
> helped me clarify some of my own thinking.
>
>
> This process of clarification does not require me to revise what I had
> written in relation to the current climate in the state of Jammu & Kashmir,
> on the contrary, it actually allows me to extend and develop my argument. I
> will come to this later, but first, there are some other issues that I need
> to deal with.
>
>
> When I had referred to the two kinds of treatment meted out to two
> different kinds of protest, I had not in fact thought in 'Hindu' and
> 'Muslim' terms, and after reading Sonia's response, I re-read my post
> carefully to see if there was any suggestion that I was referring to a
> difference in the state's response that could be attributed to the religious
> composition of the two different protesting crowds. I did not find the words
> 'Hindu' or 'Muslim' anywhere in my post. And while I do agree with Soina
> that when Jammu and Kashmir Police personnel open fire on protesting crowds
> in the Kashmir valley, what we witness is nominally 'Muslim' policemen,
> firing on nominally 'Muslim' protesters. The same Jammu and Kashmir police
> personnel firing on protesters in Jammu are likely to be a mix of nominally
> 'Hindu' and 'Muslim' personnel firing on a similarly mixed crowd of
> protesters (if that is, we agree with the assertion that the SASS protests
> have featured the participation of 'Jammu Muslims'). This fact may or may
> not be true, but let us for the sake of the argument, assume that this is
> so.
>
>
> Similarly, the caste/identity composition of western UP policemen is not
> likely to be very different from crowds of protesting western UP farmers in
> the unhappy place that is Greater Noida. It is a well known fact that the
> most brutal torture in the detention centres and interrogation centres in
> the Kashmir valley is meted out by STF (Special Task Force) personnel
> attatched to the state police. Almost invariably, these enforcers of the
> sharp edge of the Indian states marks on Kashmiri bodies tend to be
> Kashmiri, and Muslim.
>
>
> One clarification here though, the bulk of firing in the Kashmir valley has
> been undertaken by CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force) personnel, and the
> bulk of public anger has been, in this case against, the CRPF bullets, and
> CRPF sticks that smashed so many windows last night in downtown Srinagar.
> Now, anyone who has been to Srinagar knows, that the scared and vulnerable
> and aggressive faces that man CRPF bunkers are not Kashmiri. Their bodies
> (more often than not) come from hotter places in the plains and plateaus of
> the Indian hearland. And I see their deplyoment in a war zone like Kashmir
> as unfortunate, as saddening
>
>
> Sonia has referred to Kashmiri protesting crowds 'baying for blood' during
> the last few days during the mass gatherings that took place on the road to
> Muzaffarabad, and in Srinagar and other towns. I have been speaking to
> friends in the Kashmir valley today, and they told me that the slogans that
> were raised during the protests
>
> on the road to Muzaffarabad were as follows (in order of frequency)
>
>
> 1. 'Hum Kya Chahtey, Azaadi' (What do we want, Freedom), The staple full
> throated cry that rings out, and has rung out in most protests in the
> Kashmir valley for the last two decades.
>
>
> 2. 'Fruit to bahaana hai, Muzaffarabad jaana hai' (Fruit is an excuse, we
> want to go to Muzaffarabad). This has been chanted, not by the truckers
> carrying fruit, but by the accompanying marchers.
>
>
> 3. 'Aadhi Roti Khayenge, Sar nahin Jhukayenge'. (We can eat half a piece of
> bread, but won't bow our heads')
>
>
> 3. 'Jeeve, Jeeve, Pakistan' (Long live, Long live, Pakistan)
>
>
> Now, whatever these slognas may or may not imply, none of these slogans,
> bayed for anyone's blood. Not only did the marchers refrain from raising any
> slogans that can be construed as calls to violence, the 'separatist'
> political leadership that had aligned itself with the mass protests also
> repeatedly called for peaceful protests, using all available channels,
> including those afforded to them by the mainstream media. I have seen the
> Mirwaiz calling repeatedly for protests to be peaceful. If this leadership
> had wanted to queer the pitch by asking for violence, I am sure it would
> have been heeded by some sections in a very angry crowd. No such call was
> made, and no policeman, or paramilitary force personnel were attacked. In
> some instances, CRPF bunkers were torn down (and this happenned after the
> incidents of firing) but the demobilization of offensive fortifications on
> the street can be hardly called a violent act. In my book, it is an act of
> disarming the infrastructure of occupation, without causing any injury or
> violence to the occupiers themselves.
>
>
> Once the bodies of people killed by the CRPF started to make themselves
> visible in funeral processions, many young people started shouting 'Khoon ke
> badle Khoon' (blood for blood). But this 'baying' if it can be called that,
> occurred once blood had been spilt, and not, as I may point out, by the
> bayers.
>
>
> On the contrary, I have seen Dr. Praveen Togadia (who has endorsed the SASS
> agitation in Jammu by calling mass protests in other cities in India)
> declare on television 'agar maange nahin poori ki gayi to sangharsh aur bhi
> ugra roop lega' ('if the demands are not met, the agitation will take on
> even more extreme forms'). We have heard crowds in Jammu chant, 'Jaan denge,
> par baba Amarnath ki Zamin vapas lenge'  (we will give up our lives, but
> will not give up on  Baba Amarnath's land) and variations thereof. In fact,
> two 'jaans/lives' have been tragically offered as suicides. For me, this is
> just as shocking, just as violent, as any other kind of call to violence.
> These crowds have set Gujjar huts on fire. And setting shepherds huts on
> fire is not exactly the same thing as tearing down the sandbags of a CRPF
> bunker. So any attempt at 'equating' the degree of violence in these two
> instances needs to be read as disingenuous.
>
>
> As for the fact that in one instance (in Jammu) the crowds carried the
> Indian flag, and shouted pro-India slogans, and that in the other instance
> (in Kashmir) the crowds carried Pakistani flags and that some (or many)
> shouted pro-Pakistan slogans does not say anything about the violent
> intentions or tenor of either of the two protesting crowds.
>
>
> As someone who carries no brief, for any form of nationalism, (Indian,
> Pakistani or Kashmiri) I am not willing to judge a crowd on the basis of
> which kind of nationalism they choose to profess. What interests me is the
> fact that given two crowds, with two different kinds of behaviour, one of
> which carries an Indian flag, and another which carries a Pakistani flag,
> black flags, or no flags at all - the Indian state chooses to fire on the
> second crowd, even though the second crowd, which may be greater in numbers,
> is not indicating that it is anything but a peaceful assembly of people
> intent on going from 'A' to 'B'. That they choose not to go to 'C' (the
> Srinagar-Leh-Manali road that Sonia refers to) cannot be a criterion on
> which we can evaluate the merits or demerits of the state's decision to fire
> into this amassed crowd.
>
>
> Notwithstanding the multitude of links supplied by Aditya Raj Kaul in his
> response to my posting. Facts, remain, facts. Three casualties of police
> firing in one instance (in a very militant protest in Jammu) and now thirty
> casualties (and likely to mount) in police and CRPF firing in the other
> instance (in Kashmir) including instances where CRPF personnel fired on
> ambulances ferrying the wounded to hospital, and inside hospitals. These
> instances of violence against ambulances, the injured and doctors and nurses
> attending to them must go down in the history of the Indian state as
> examples of the very worst forms of state brutality.
>
>
> For more details - see -
>
>
> This needs to be seen also in the context of the fact that the opening of
> the "Srinagar-Muzaffarabad' road is a long standing demand of several
> sections of political opinion (not all of them separatist) and that in fact
> predates the current troubles in the valley (from 1989) by several decades.
> It needs also to be seen in the light of the fact that what the people on
> the highways in the Kashmir valley were demanding had already been agreed to
> in principle by the governments of India and Pakistan. If anything, the
> current situation was an opportunity for the governments of the state of
> Jammu and Kashmir (currently represented by the Governor, a representative
> of the Union of India) and the Union of India to display a modicum of vision
> and sagacity by opening the line of control, especially when the people of
> the valley were voting with their feet, and their bodies for this to be
> done.
>
>
> Even those who wish the Indian state well in its continuing occupation of
> the Kashmir valley would no doubt see this turn of events as a tragically
> wasted opportunity.
>
>
> Let me now turn to the second important question that has arisen from this
> discussion. The question of what might enable us to think about the
> situations of the Greater Noida farmers and the protesting masses in the
> Kashmir valley (and elsewhere, in Nandigram, and in the Kashmir valley).
>
>
> Sonia has pointed out in her posting that  as far as the transfer of land
> to the Amarnath Shrine Board is concerned, "Of the 100 acres in
>
> question,  only 5 acres belongs to the forest department and the rest is
>
> private property belonging to several locals."
>
>
> If this is indeed the case, then the extent of the anger against the move
> to effect a  transfer of land to the Amarnath Shrine Board is all the more
> understandable. (I do not doubt that it would be understandable even if this
> were not the case, but that is another matter. )
>
>
> Land is a highly emotive issue in all parts of South Asia, and in many
> parts of the world where it is tied to livelihood and to survival. The
> desire to acquire land (usually with the mediation of the state) for
> purposes other than those relevant to the livelihood and survival of the
> customary owners, users and custodians of land is what gives the common
> sharp edge to the question of the arbitrary acquisition of land by state or
> state backed agencies, whether in Kashmir, or in the Narmada valley, or in
> Nandigram is what is clearly evident. In Kashmir, (in the absence of any
> other viable form of sustainable economic activity, barring tourism, land is
> all that people can fall back on. And we need to remember that some of the
> capital that the National Conference still falls back on when its naked
> collusion with the occupation comes to the fore, is the vivid, yet fading
> memory of land reforms in the early fifties.
>
>
> So, then, what is the story about land, in the Kashmir valley.
>
>
> "In 2003 Abdul Rashid, Member of Parliament was told in Rajya Sabha that
> the army and the Central Para-Military Forces (CPMFs) have 41,594.767 acres
> (332760 kanals) in J&K. This comes to about 170 sq kms for which records
> exist. But an equal amount, if not more, is under illegal occupation,
> according to The Economic Times [December 6, 2006]. The most recent figures
> being circulated suggests that 6,81,839 kanals are under the armed forces'
> possession. Of this 3,10,184 kanals is unauthorized possession. In Srinagar
> officially, the defence establishment have 45,080 kanals of land located at
> Badamibagh, Rangreth, Danodhar Karewa, Sharifabad, Tatoo and Militia
> Grounds. In 2006, it has been reported that the Indian Army's Northern
> Command has acquired 8000 kanals in Awantipora. There have also been reports
> of Indian Air Force wanting land for a new air base in Mansbal and in the
> same area 3Rashtriya Rifles (RR) has submitted a request to acquire nearly
> 1500 kanals adjoining its garrison. Manasbal also highlights another feature
> of this 'land grab'. Villagers complain that since the irrigation canal
> passes through land which the 3RR wants, thousands of kanals of land would
> be denied irrigation. So widespread is the concern in J&K over land under
> security forces occupation that even the pro-Indian Peoples Democratic
> Party, led by Mufti Mohammed Saeed, in a resolution adopted on February 11,
> 2007 states "with distress… that over the last 15 years thousands of acres
> of orchards and agricultural land have been acquired in the state
> particularly in Kashmir Valley, districts of Rajouri, Poonch and Doda by the
> Armed Forces." The resolution also says that "many institutional buildings
> including hospitals and schools have been occupied by the armed forces." A
> conservative estimate suggests that 35,000 ha of such land is under the
> control of the Indian Army alone.
>
>
> Take deployment in just one tehsil; Pattan in Baramulla, to appreciate its
> significance. This tehsil has 92 villages. Amongst these 92 villages there
> are 4 army brigade headquarters and 12 checkposts. Pattan plus Babateng also
> hosts camps of Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), Border Security Force
> (BSF) and Special Operations Group (SOG).  There are three police stations
> in the tehsil; at Pattan, Mirgund and Kreeri. Each check post has anywhere
> between 100-150 soldiers although there are few which have much larger
> numbers in excess of 300. Thus roughly a cluster of nine villages come under
> one check post. And one brigade is available for operations covering 23
> villages whereas one police station caters to 30-31 villages. Thus all
> movement to and from the village to fields, market, town is monitored and
> accompanied by regular patrolling. Thus, the margin for normal human
> 'errors', such as stepping out for a smoke after dark, or a stroll can
> result in death. On top of this, the extent of deployment of troops and the
> land under their occupation acts as a brake on people's own capacity to
> propel growth. It also results in difficulties in getting easy access to
> markets for commodity export because of delay in transportation due to
> security drills, slowdown on highways because of military convoys carrying
> troops, material and weaponry etc, and relatively higher fuel and labour
> costs due to all this."
>
>
> Were this land to be freed of occupation it would contribute immensely to
> increasing agricultural/fruit production and generation of revenue and cut
> back on net outflow from J&K.
>
>
> If this is true (and the statement recorded in the minutes of the Rajya
> Sabha do have official sanction) then, the armed forces and paramilitaries
> of the Indian state, together occupied 41,594.767 acres, and since the
> majority of force deployment in J&K is in the Kashmir valley, then the
> majority of this land would logically be seen to lie in the Kashmir valley.
>
>
> The net area under fruit cultivation in the State of J&K is  174,000 ha are
> under fresh fruits (orchards). 174,000 ha is equal to 4,29,963 acres. If we
> compare this figure against the reliable estimate of land under direct
> occupation my armed forces of the Indian state (41,594.767 acres) we get the
> following figures. The armed forces occupy land that is roughly equivalent
> to what would amount to 10 % of the land under fruit cultivation. In crude
> terms, one in every ten orchards is not an orchard, it is a fortress.
>
>
> All figures are sourced from the Fifth Economic Census [published by the
> Central Statistical Organisation together with Directorate of Economics and
> Statistics J&K, 2005]  and  Economic Survey 2006-07 for Jammu & Kashmir (ES
> 2006-07) [The Directorate of Economics and Statistics, Government of Jammu
> and Kashmir, 2007]as cited in 'Understanding the J&K Economy' by Gautam
> Navlakha, Kashmir Affairs, Volume 2, No.2, April-June 2007
>
> http://www.kashmiraffairs.org
>
> Gautam_Navlakha_understanding_J&K_economy.html
>
>
> [And before anyone jumps on me for citing a source that comes by way of
> Gautam Navlakha, let me state that Navlakha may not have read the
> Rajtarangini with great care, but he certainly does take the time to read
> the Economic Survey 2006-2007 for J&K, and other official documents with a
> certain degree of care. And the figures under question here are not his
> opinions, but notes in these same official documents.]
>
>
> In a situation of direct occupation of a resource as precious as land in
> Kashmir, the arbitrary decision to appropriate even just 100 more acres of
> land by an unrepresentative body (the office of the governor) for whatever
> purpose cannot but be seen as a deliberate affront to a population stretched
> to the very limits of its patience by the violence of a continuing
> occupation. I fail to see, why the anger of fruit growers, denied markets,
> smarting under the knowledge that their orchards have in many cases been
> taken over by the Indian state, should look upon any act of land acquisition
> with kindness.
>
>
> Look for instance at a news item in the Kashmir Times of Friday, April 18,
> 2008
>
>
> Rental hikes by Army may adversely affect fruit production in Jammu and
> kashmir
>
> With fruit production in Kashmir static, the Kashmiri growers have asked
> the state and central government not to acquire horticulture land for any
> official purposes. They are also not satisfied with recent rent hike by the
> defence ministry.
>
>
> The growers fear that acquiring of the horticulture land for official
> purposes will reduce the fruit production in the state. Jammu and Kashmir is
> the only state in India that has around 2.75 lakh hectares of land under the
> horticulture.The major portion of this land is used for the cultivation of
> fresh fruits especially apples.
>
>
> President, Kashmir Fruit Growers and Dealers Association, Ghulam Rasool
> Bhat told Kashmir Times that, "The government should come up with a law for
> banning the use of horticulture land for any official purpose." He said that
> in Western countries, the government has already banned use of horticulture
> land for any official purposes, he said, adding similar ban should be
> imposed in Jammu Kashmir as well. "If steps are not taken, time will come
> when we will lose major portion of our orchards."
>
>
> How deep this connection between orchards and armed bases runs is evident
> from another source, this time a more subjective account. Which bears being
> read through right to the end.
>
>
> There are no Djinns in Anantnag, they don't scare us anymore'
>
> http://bluekashmir.blogspot.com/
>
> Uzma Mohsin
>
> Originally published in the Personal Histories section of the Tehelka
> weekly; July 28, 2007 issue. I thank Uzma Mohsin for the sketch.
>
>
> "...Relations between the townspeople and the army were tense. Early each
> morning, as the town came alive with the azaans from its many mosques, the
> army would switch on huge loudspeakers on three sides of the hill, and Hindi
> songs and bhajans would blare out of them for hours on end. It was some kind
> of a unilateral, undeclared war; we all lived in terror of the day this war
> would come down the slopes in heavy muddy boots and trample on us like ants.
> It stopped only in the late 90s, when I left Kashmir at age 16.
>
>
> THE TOWN had become very gloomy — by six in the evening, the streets wore a
> deserted look. Lights were kept low, curtains were always drawn. People made
> guesses about the origins of distant gunshots. Scary stories for children no
> longer had any tasrupdars, djinns or haputs in them — there was no need for
> them, they didn't scare us any more. Only the snow surprised us when, after
> a perfectly clear day, we would wake up to find bright snow covering
> everything open to the sky. In the distance, the snow-covered hill would
> merge with the whiteness of the surrounding town, and become almost
> invisible. These were perhaps the only happy moments for me at that time.
>
>
> One apple season, many years later, we found the courage to go up the hill
> to pick apples. A new, utterly strange city had sprung to life on the flat
> plateau. It was such a contrast to the choked, dying town below. There was
> an elaborate army infrastructure, with its own buildings, streets, armoured
> vehicles and helicopters. There were families living there, families of army
> men. There were many shops too. Not many people in the town knew what was
> going on here, for it was happening on the hill's invisible side.
>
>
> To our dismay, we found many orchards had been torn down; our best apple
> trees were dying for want of care. The army, we heard, was planning to build
> an airstrip there. Years later, when I came to study in a northern Indian
> university, I realised that the army city on the hill that overlooked my
> town had a peculiarly North Indian town feel to it. I have been living away
> from home for the last nine years, as have so many of my other childhood
> friends. I hear stories from my parents about the killings and injuries of
> some friends who stayed behind..."
>
>
> I could go on. But this has been a long enough post already. In the end, we
> need to look a little less at questions of faith and a little more at
> questions of land, and here we need to look at the question of what happened
> to the land left behind by Kashmiri Pandits, just as much as anything else.
> Some of this land was of course appropriated by greedy neighbours, some of
> it is in the occupation of the armed forces, which pay paltry rent (if they
> pay) and some of it is cared for by diligent neigbours who wait for the
> return of those who left.
>
>
> We need to realize that when it comes to the alienation of land, we touch
> one of the most emotive chords there can be, and this is in the end about
> Kashmir, but it is about something much bigger than Kashmir. It is about
> connivance and corporate greed, wherever it occurs.
>
>
> In a recent report by Sravan Sukla from Kushinagar in Uttar Pradesh in the
> Tehelka of 9 August 2008, the correspondent draws a sadly familiar picture
> of arbitrary state action by the BSP government in Uttar Pradesh to
> arbitrarily grab land for a complex to host a grandiose statue of the
> Maitreya Buddha (the ostentation of which would have made the Buddha weep,
> not smile).
>
>
> Will Buddha Smile over Ryots Tears
>
>
> http://www.tehelka.org/story_main40.asp?filename=Ne090808willbuddha_smile.asp
>
>
> It is interesting to read a quote from this article -
>
>
> "Among others, around a hundred Dalit families have been affected by the
> land acquisition. Interestingly, a Dalit farmer is leading the agitation
> against Mayawati. Forty-five year old Govardhan Gond, a semi-literate Dalit
> farmer and president of the Bhoomi Bachao Sangharsh Samiti, says that "there
> is no question of
>
> surrendering our land so long as we are alive".
>
>
> "I will slit their throats if they come to take possession of my land. It
> is my only source of livelihood," declares Kamli Devi of Siswa village. A
> forty-year-old mother of six, she is leading a band of woman farmers against
> the acquisition to save her 50 bighas of land.
>
>
> Apart from the land, about 400 houses, half a dozen schools, including the
> area's only graduate institution, the Radha Krishna Inter College, a canal
> and about a dozen link roads are also falling prey to the acquisition.
> "Where will our children study after these schools have been closed," asks
> Dasai Gond of Dumri village.
>
>
> Significantly, a few Buddhist monks are also lending silent support to the
> farmers' cause. "The government should try to refrain from displacing poor
> farmers for the project. Buddhism is based on non-violence and it does not
> allow causing pain to anyone. A project based on the woes of farmers will
> haunt us in future," rues B. Gyaneshwar, the sangh nayak, or head, of the
> All-India Buddhist Monk Association."
>
>
> It would have been equally interesting had those who are leading the
> agitation for the transfer of land to the Amarnath Shrine Board and their
> sympathisers displayed even a fraction of the sensitivity that has been
> deplayed by the head of the All India Buddhist Monk Association when it
> comes to the acquisition of land for apparently religious purposes.
>
>
> Then, they (the partisans of the SASS agitation) would have matched the
> restraint and neighbourly feelings displayed by their Kashmiri counterparts
> towards the Amarnath pilgrims who have time and again stated that their
> fight is not against pilgrims or Hindus but against the move to acquire
> land.
>
>
> In fact, this year has had a record number of pilgrims travel to Amarnath,
> both by new and old routes, and the pilgrimage has continued, peacefully.
>
>
> Thank you all for the opportunity for this clarification, and apologies for
> what has been an overlong post,
>
>
> regards
>
>
> Shuddha
>
>
>
>
>
>
>