[Reader-list] Gun Salutes for August 15

[radhikarajen at vsnl.net]

A community which can not, and do not want to identify, isolate and let the law take care of the deviant behaviour of fanatic individuals, has to respond only in those words. A community which has individuals who create a NGO to defend, provide logistical support for fasadi activities, has lawyers who for hefty fee have no hesitation to sheltor, support and defend the criminals for being friends of fasadis, have no choice of different words.

  Just compare this with hindus who have no hesitation to condemn their even "saints" and togadias, if they talk of violent means for the faith.!

 regards.

----- Original Message -----
From: Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, August 17, 2008 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gun Salutes for August 15
To: Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <mail at shivamvij.com>
Cc: Sarai <reader-list at sarai.net>, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net>

> Yes , they are . For once they are telling a truth...for a change
> 
> On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:35 PM, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्
> <mail at shivamvij.com>wrote:
> 
> > Say that in Srinagar to a shikawala or a taxi driver or a shopkeeper
> > and you know what you will hear?
> >
> > "We are al terorrists here."
> >
> > best
> > shivam
> >
> > On 8/17/08, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Yeah ...i agree .Geelani is a terrorist.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <
> > mail at shivamvij.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Pawan bhai, you might want to read my reply again.
> > > >
> > > > While Geelani's Pak inclinations are well known, he is not 
> the only
> > > > leader, his is not he only view. Even he has been forced to 
> tone hem
> > > > down over the years because public sentiment is for azadi. 
> And if you
> > > > talk to people in Srinagar, they will often tell you that 
> the Pakistan
> > > > bogey is often an act of provocation, and for various 
> reasons most
> > > > Kashmiris don't trust Pakistan, don't see that as an option.
> > > >
> > > > Okay, let's stop debating this how about a referendum?
> > > >
> > > > And the Kashmir azadi movement has its share of communal 
> elements but
> > > > to equate Geelani with Advani or Modi is a bit too much. I 
> am not
> > > > getting into the chap act of body counts...
> > > >
> > > > best
> > > > shivam
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 8/17/08, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Shivam,
> > > > >
> > > > > Make no mistake , that Kashmir "Azadi" agitation is no 
> less dangerous
> > > than
> > > > > an Al Qaida or a Talibani Movement.
> > > > >
> > > > > What do you mean by "Pakitsan Se rishta Kya...la illa illa 
> laa "
> > > > >
> > > > > And Geelani saying "Jeeve Jeeve Pakistan"
> > > > >
> > > > > Kashmir so called Azaadi struggle has been the most 
> dangerous and
> > > communal
> > > > > movement which has effected even the world super powers.
> > > > >
> > > > > For more info log on www.ikashmir.net
> > > > >
> > > > > Pawan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्
> > > <mail at shivamvij.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Dear Sonia,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is not the first time you are equating the azadi 
> movement in
> > > > > > Kashmir with the Hindutva movement. While Shuddha has 
> already> laboured
> > > > > > over the diference in the two cases, I want to add that 
> this is a
> > > > > > dangerously sweeping comparison, and that you can go 
> only so far
> > with
> > > > > > it. This generalised comparison helps you label the 
> entire azadi
> > > > > > sruggle as cmmunal, as being mtivated by Hindu/Mulsim 
> concerns.> While
> > > > > > I don't deny the absence of this, do you admit that the 
> Kashmiri> > > > > Muslims mainly want independence from India - 
> not Hindus? If it was
> > > > > > about the Hindu-Muslim, Hindutva-Jehad binaries, 
> wouldn't the
> > majority
> > > > > > demand be for Pakistan rather than an independent nation-
> state?> > > > >
> > > > > > Warmly,
> > > > > > Shivam
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 8/16/08, S. Jabbar <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi Shuddha,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A quick & hopefully short reply to some of the points 
> you have
> > > raised.
> > > > > You
> > > > > > > may not have named it as such but the feeling in the 
> valley is
> > very
> > > much
> > > > > > > about a Hindu state resorting to greater violence 
> against Muslim
> > > Kashmir
> > > > > > > than Hindu Jammu. While it is easy to arrive at this 
> conclusion> > given
> > > > > > > India¹s history of communal violence, I was merely 
> trying to
> > point
> > > out
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > in Kashmir the situation was slightly different, and 
=3E obviously> not
> > > to
> > > > > accuse
> > > > > > > you of communal thinking.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I read with some surprise your taking issue with my 
> use of the
> > > phrase,
> > > > > > > Œbaying for blood¹ and your accompanying list of 
> slogans used
> > during
> > > the
> > > > > > > protests.  It is incomplete and I could add a few more 
> but I
> > really
> > > > > don¹t
> > > > > > > want to vitiate and already horrible situation.  I¹m 
> sure you
> > > remember
> > > > > 1989
> > > > > > > and the slogan ŒJai Sri Ram.¹  Advani had used a 
> similar argument
> > > when
> > > > > > > challenged.  He said something like, what is communal or
> > provocative
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > taking God¹s name?  What, indeed, except when there is 
> a thousand
> > > strong
> > > > > mob
> > > > > > > screaming God¹s name and marching towards Muslim 
> localities as
> > they
> > > did
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > Œ92 and Œ93.  I would describe that as baying for blood.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Incidentally, here¹s a report in the HT on the Police 
> vs. CRPF
> > > > > culpability:
> > > > > > > -----------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > THE KASHMIR situation has taken a new turn with police 
> becoming> the
> > > main
> > > > > > > target of protesters.
> > > > > > > There have also been calls for their social boycott.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The local population is angry for the police's "brutal 
> conduct> > against
> > > > > their
> > > > > > > own people".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > State police has been active alongside the CRPF to 
> crush protests
> > in
> > > > > Kashmir
> > > > > > > over the past four days, which left 23 dead and around 200
> > injured.
> > > > > > > Incidentally, the contingent that fired on the "cross-LOC"
> > marchers
> > > in
> > > > > Uri
> > > > > > > on August 10 was led by a local Khursheed Khan, 
> station house
> > > officer of
> > > > > > > Sheeri police station. Senior Hurriyat leader Shaikh 
> Aziz and two
> > > others
> > > > > > > were killed in the incident. Mirwaiz Ummer Faroog said 
> "it was a
> > > target
> > > > > > > killing".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hundreds of people attacked Khan's residence in 
> Baramullah and
> > > torched
> > > > > it.
> > > > > > > They also torched Sheeri police station. Several such 
> incidents> have
> > > > > been
> > > > > > > reported across the Valley People at Handwara have 
> called for a
> > > social
> > > > > > > boycott of cops and their relatives. Residents of 
> Srinagar's Raj
> > > Bagh
> > > > > > > locality took out a protest march on Wednesday, asking 
> the police
> > > > > "whether
> > > > > > > they stand for India or for their people in Kashmir". 
> This is in
> > > stark
> > > > > > > contrast to 1990, when militancy erupted. Police then 
> were seen
> > as
> > > > > > > "friendly". Hundreds of cops had resigned and joined 
> militancy.> > > > > >
> > > > > > > --------------------------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > National Highway - http://shivamvij.com/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > National Highway - http://shivamvij.com/
> >
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