[Reader-list] Gun Salutes for August 15

S. Jabbar sonia.jabbar at gmail.com
Wed Aug 20 18:59:03 IST 2008 

Dear Shuddha,

Though I virulently disagree with young Aditya Raj Kaul's politics I have to
say in his defence that he wasn't lying about the 'Inshallah!'
There was an elderly man, I don't know who he was, who had earlier quite
correctly thanked the BJP for doing what the militants had been unable to do
thus far, vitiated the atmosphere to the degree that every Kashmiri loathed
the idea of India.  It was he who cried, Inshallah!

Something strange happens with the lapel mikes in the NDTV studio. Every
mike is not on all the time.  I've had that happen to me before where I
thought I had been able to hit back at Ravishankar Prasad but when I saw the
program later, no such thing happened. It wasn't in the editing because all
that he was saying was being heard perfectly, so it's not that they just cut
those bits out.  I think the mikes are controlled by the producers who let
some of the cacophony in, not all.

Best
sj


On 8/17/08 11:44 PM, "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:

> Dear Aditya Raj Kaul,

I watched the debate, and it was carried live, and I
> did not hear
anyone saying Inshallah, Surely if they had 'screamed'
> Inshallah,
given that every other shouting voice was heard, we would have
> heard it.
Since there were several Kashmiri muslims in the studio this
> evening,
some of whom had lapel mikes, if they had all (or even several of
>
them) screamed 'Inshallah.' surely, we would have heard. For
instance,
> there was a young man, identified as Kashmiri muslim, who
was sitting right
> next to you. I did not hear him say Inshallah, I
did not hear Sajjad Lone,
> or Muzaffar Beig, say Inshallah. What I did
hear was Mr. Khajuria saying
> that he would lead marchers towards
Baltal, (now, after the pilgrimage
> period is over, so he would not be
leading a party of pilgrims), which I
> surely consider provocative,
and a deliberate raising of the pitch of
> tension. I do hope that no
Kashmiri is misled by this provocation to try and
> confront this
'proposed' march. As that is the deliberate intention. It
> would be
terrible if the peaceful nature of the protests in Kashmir were to
> be
destroyed by provocative statements from a BJP politician. It should
be
> ignored.

We also heard (at the tail end of the programme)  a man who had been
>
a yatri, who has done seva at the Amarnath shrine, saying that he has
had
> no problems. If Kashmiri muslims are (all, without exception) as
communal as
> you seem to suggest, then surely, he would have faced
some problems. We also
> heard a young Kashmiri pandit who lives in
Srinagar, studies in Kashmir
> university, who expressed sentiments
that did not align with yours, so
> clearly, neither Kashmiri Muslims,
nor Kashmiri Pandits, speak in a set of
> binary voices without any
internal variation.

Incidentally, your
> contribution, though brief ( I sincerely hope it
was not edited away, and it
> did not seem to be, as it was a live
programme) had nothing of consequence
> to offer by way of a way
forward, all you could speak of was the fact that
> Amarnath is the
'last Hindu structure in Kashmir' which is factually
> incorrect. The
kheer bhawani temple ,and several others, continue to be
> active, and
actually have been having pilgrims and worshippers coming to
> them.

I think you should reflect on the fact that you went out on a major
>
news channel, live and said something factually incorrect. I am
willing to
> think that you might have said this in the heat of the
moment, without
> thought or pause, but do consider the fact that it
does go out as a
> significant distortion of the truth.

regards

Shuddha





On 17-Aug-08, at
> 10:50 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote:

> An interesting thing just happened.
>
>
> I'm returning from a NDTV debate (If i can take the liberty to call
> it
> one)
> on the current developments in J&K. The Panelists included a wide
>
> range of
> opinions from valley, Jammu and also from here in New Delhi; among
>
> them
> Abhishek Manu Singhvi, Swapan Das Gupta, Muzafar Baig, Sajad Lone,
>
> Ashok
> Khajuria, Omar Abdulalh and my friend Sonia Jabbar were the few
>
> voices.
>
> It was as expected a very heated debate and matters became worse
>
> when Sajad
> Lone challenged Jammu Samiti and Kashmiri Pandits to claim
> their
> right on
> the Baltal Land.
>
> At almost the end of the show, BJP's
> voice from Jammu Ashok
> Khajuria rightly
> said, "Kashmiri Separatists and
> vested interests want to create a
> Nizam-e-Mustafa" in the valley. To which,
> the Kashmiri Muslims in
> the studio
> screamed, "Inshallah".
>
> Now, thats
> what speaks for their Secularism !!! An Islamic State....
>
>
> On 8/17/08,
> Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्
> <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>>
>> You obviously
> understand that that statement is rhetorical, and you
>> know what it is
> trying to say. If only you could go past your ow
>> rhetoric...
>>
>> On
> 8/17/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्
>> <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>>> :)
>>>
>>>
> On 8/17/08, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Yes , they are .
> For once they are telling a truth...for a change
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug
> 17, 2008 at 9:35 PM, Shivam Vij शिवम्
>>>> विज् <
>>
> mail at shivamvij.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Say that in Srinagar to a shikawala or a
> taxi driver or a
>>>>> shopkeeper
>>>>> and you know what you will
> hear?
>>>>>
>>>>> "We are all terorrists here."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> best
>>>>> shivam
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/17/08, Pawan Durani
> <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Yeah ...i agree .Geelani is a
> terrorist.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Shivam Vij
>
>>>>>> शिवम् विज्
>>>> <mail at shivamvij.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Pawan bhai,
> you might want to read my reply again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While Geelani's Pak
> inclinations are well known, he is not the
>> only
>>>>>>> leader, his is not
> he only view. Even he has been forced to tone
>> hem
>>>>>>> down over the
> years because public sentiment is for azadi.
>>>>>>> And if
>> you
>>>>>>>
> talk to people in Srinagar, they will often tell you that the
>>
> Pakistan
>>>>>>> bogey is often an act of provocation, and for various
> reasons
>> most
>>>>>>> Kashmiris don't trust Pakistan, don't see that as an
> option.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Okay, let's stop debating this how about a
> referendum?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And the Kashmir azadi movement has its share of
> communal
>>>>>>> elements
>> but
>>>>>>> to equate Geelani with Advani or
> Modi is a bit too much. I am
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> getting into the chap act
> of body counts...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>
> shivam
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/17/08, Pawan Durani
> <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Shivam,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Make no
> mistake , that Kashmir "Azadi" agitation is no less
>>>> dangerous
>>>>>>
> than
>>>>>>>> an Al Qaida or a Talibani Movement.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do
> you mean by "Pakitsan Se rishta Kya...la illa illa laa
>> "
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
> And Geelani saying "Jeeve Jeeve Pakistan"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kashmir so called
> Azaadi struggle has been the most dangerous
>> and
>>>>>> communal
>>>>>>>>
> movement which has effected even the world super powers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For
> more info log on www.ikashmir.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
> Pawan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Shivam Vij
>
>>>>>>>> शिवम् विज्
>>>>>> <mail at shivamvij.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
> Dear Sonia,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is not the first time you are equating
> the azadi
>> movement in
>>>>>>>>> Kashmir with the Hindutva movement. While
> Shuddha has already
>>>> laboured
>>>>>>>>> over the diference in the two
> cases, I want to add that this
>> is a
>>>>>>>>> dangerously sweeping
> comparison, and that you can go only so
>> far
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> it. This
> generalised comparison helps you label the entire
>> azadi
>>>>>>>>> sruggle
> as cmmunal, as being mtivated by Hindu/Mulsim
>> concerns.
>>>>
> While
>>>>>>>>> I don't deny the absence of this, do you admit that the
>>
> Kashmiri
>>>>>>>>> Muslims mainly want independence from India - not Hindus?
> If
>> it
>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> about the Hindu-Muslim, Hindutva-Jehad binaries,
> wouldn't the
>>>> majority
>>>>>>>>> demand be for Pakistan rather than an
> independent
>> nation-state?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Warmly,
>>>>>>>>>
> Shivam
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/08, S. Jabbar
> <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Shuddha,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A
> quick & hopefully short reply to some of the points you
>> have
>>>>>>
> raised.
>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>> may not have named it as such but the feeling
> in the valley
>> is
>>>> very
>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>> about a Hindu state
> resorting to greater violence against
>> Muslim
>>>>>> Kashmir
>>>>>>>>>> than
> Hindu Jammu. While it is easy to arrive at this
>> conclusion
>>>>>>
> given
>>>>>>>>>> India¹s history of communal violence, I was merely trying
>>
> to
>>>> point
>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> in Kashmir the situation was
> slightly different, and
>> obviously
>>>> not
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>
> accuse
>>>>>>>>>> you of communal thinking.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I read with
> some surprise your taking issue with my use of
>> the
>>>>>>
> phrase,
>>>>>>>>>> Œbaying for blood¹ and your accompanying list of slogans
>>
> used
>>>> during
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> protests.  It is incomplete and I could
> add a few more but
>> I
>>>> really
>>>>>>>> don¹t
>>>>>>>>>> want to vitiate
> and already horrible situation.  I¹m sure
>> you
>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>
> 1989
>>>>>>>>>> and the slogan ŒJai Sri Ram.¹  Advani had used a similar
>>>>
> argument
>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>> challenged.  He said something like, what is
> communal or
>>>> provocative
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> taking God¹s name?
> What, indeed, except when there is a
>>>> thousand
>>>>>> strong
>>>>>>>>
> mob
>>>>>>>>>> screaming God¹s name and marching towards Muslim localities
>>
> as
>>>> they
>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> Œ92 and Œ93.  I would describe
> that as baying for blood.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, here¹s a report
> in the HT on the Police vs.
>> CRPF
>>>>>>>> culpability:
>>>>>>>>>>
> -----------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> THE KASHMIR
> situation has taken a new turn with police
>> becoming
>>>> the
>>>>>>
> main
>>>>>>>>>> target of protesters.
>>>>>>>>>> There have also been calls
> for their social boycott.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The local population is angry
> for the police's "brutal
>> conduct
>>>>>> against
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>
> own people".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> State police has been active alongside the
> CRPF to crush
>>>> protests in
>>>>>>>> Kashmir
>>>>>>>>>> over the past four
> days, which left 23 dead and around 200
>>>> injured.
>>>>>>>>>> Incidentally,
> the contingent that fired on the "cross-LOC"
>>>> marchers
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>
> Uri
>>>>>>>>>> on August 10 was led by a local Khursheed Khan, station
>>
> house
>>>>>> officer of
>>>>>>>>>> Sheeri police station. Senior Hurriyat
> leader Shaikh Aziz
>> and
>>>> two
>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>> were killed in the
> incident. Mirwaiz Ummer Faroog said "it
>> was a
>>>>>> target
>>>>>>>>>>
> killing".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hundreds of people attacked Khan's residence
> in Baramullah
>> and
>>>>>> torched
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>> They also torched
> Sheeri police station. Several such
>> incidents
>>>> have
>>>>>>>>
> been
>>>>>>>>>> reported across the Valley People at Handwara have called
>>
> for a
>>>>>> social
>>>>>>>>>> boycott of cops and their relatives. Residents
> of
>> Srinagar's Raj
>>>>>> Bagh
>>>>>>>>>> locality took out a protest march
> on Wednesday, asking the
>>>> police
>>>>>>>> "whether
>>>>>>>>>> they stand
> for India or for their people in Kashmir". This
>> is in
>>>>>>
> stark
>>>>>>>>>> contrast to 1990, when militancy erupted. Police then were
>>
> seen
>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>> "friendly". Hundreds of cops had resigned and
> joined
>> militancy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
> --------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> National Highway -
> http://shivamvij.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> National Highway -
> http://shivamvij.com/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> National Highway
> - http://shivamvij.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> National Highway -
> http://shivamvij.com/
>> _________________________________________
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Shuddhabrata Sengupta
The
> Sarai Programme at CSDS
Raqs Media
> Collective
shuddha at sarai.net
www.sarai.net
www.raqsmediacollective.net


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