[Reader-list] Oranges won't work anymore

[Pawan Durani]

And there are people like me who are not registered with Government as
"migrants" .
  On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Kshmendra Kaul
<kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>
> Dear Sonia
>
> You MUST be a Kashmiri Pandit pretending to be of some other ethnicity.
>
> OR Maybe you too are an "Agent" of the Govt. of India. You could also be
> from the Hindutva cadre of BJP or VHP or Bajrang Dal. Heavans forbid.
>
> These are shots in the darkness of SARAI caused by postings that are at
> most times filled with bias, prejudice and presumptions with added liberal
> (pun not intended) doses of ignorance and misrepresentations.
>
> Whatever else you are, you come across to me as an independent thinker who
> is not a bandwagon-person nor is tempted into taking fashionable 'liberal'
> positions on issues (pun intended). That does not mean that you and I think
> alike on all subjects.
>
> 1.  It is reported in August 2002 that 11 polling stations have been
> reserved for KPs (migrants) for the about to come elections. 8 in Jammu, 2
> in Udhampur and 1 in Delhi.
>
> The report also says that 150,000 KPs (migrants) in "other" parts of the
> country could cast their votes by postal ballot. This is as per an Election
> Commission official.
>
> This would mean that apart from the majority of  KPs (migrants) who had
> landed in Jammu, Udhampur and Delhi there were some 150,000 KPs (migrants)
> more who had moved to places other than Jammu, Udhampur and Delhi.
>
> 2.  A June 2007 report about one of the Prime Minister's Working Groups
> headed by Hamid Ansari quotes figures from this WG to say:
>
>  " ..........the total population of Kashmiri Pandits in the valley before
> migration was about 3.5 lakh. While a majority migrated to Jammu and other
> parts of the country, about 18,000 stayed back as of 1997."
>
> The report also quotes another set of figures (note that these are figures
> for Jammu alone) to say:
>
> "As many as 30,206 Hindu families, 2,120 Muslim families and 1,749 Sikhs
> are registered as migrants with the state government and are now living in
> Jammu."
>
> 3. The official website of J&K Govt in an August 2000 report mentions:
>
> "According to the Koul Report, there were 56,689 families (migrants of all
> communities) in Jammu and elsewhere in the country in 1997. Of them 31,490
> families were in Jammu alone and 19,339 families in New Delhi."
>
> It might be pertinent to point out that "families" were not registered as
> "nuclear families" but covered the direct lineage (excluding girls married
> out and including girls married into the family). Most cross-references for
> registration were linked to the "residence" in Kashmir before the
> 'migration'. In most cases there were 3 generations who had been living
> together and who were registered as a "family".
>
> 4. CIA's "The World Factbook" mentions 600,000 IDPs in India anbd says that
> about half of those are Kashmiri Pandits from Jammu and Kashmir.
>
> 5. The Geneva based (mandated by United Nations) Internal Displacement
> Monitoring Cell (IDMC)  notes that the lowest number of Kashmir Pandit IDPs
> found from sources was 56,246 families. It translates that into the number
> 250,000 and credits GOI with being the source.
>
> IDMC notes that the Highest estimates  of (Kashmiri Pandit) IDPs found from
> sources was QUOTE "Maybe as many as" 450,000 UNQUOTE. It credits U.S
> Committee for Refugees (USCR) as the source.
>
>
> Kshmendra
>
> PS.
> There is another aspect of Migration/Displacement of Kashmiri Pandits which
> never gets highlighted.
>
> If one may call the post 1988 displacement an 'exodus', between 1947 and
> 1988 also there was an outflow of Kashmir Pandits from Kashmir for various
> reasons that had nothing much to do with being terrorised, even if they
> faced intimidation.
>
> This was because of 'lack of opportunities' in Kashmir. This 'lack of
> opportunities' became a 'fait accompli' forced upon the KPs when admission
> to professional educational institutions  (read Medical and Engineering)
> started taking place on the basis of religious ratio-proportions. (I think
> only 10% or maybe 20% of the admissions were on 'competitive' basis). This
> was followed by "recruitments" and "promotions" also following the same
> principle though this might be difficult to substantiate though there was
> such an "Executive Order" for "promotions" after a specified level.
>
> This understandably led to a constant year after year diaspora out of
> Kashmir towards Educational Institutions and Jobs. They were not migrating
> out, strictly speaking, because the "permanent residence" continued to be in
> Kashmir with major part of the immediate family also left behind. So
> children studying 'out' had their parents back in Kashmir. Those who had
> taken up Jobs outside also had their parents in kashmir and in many cases
> also the spouse and children.
>
> If this is understood, it might be easier for some to appreciate that the
> Internal Displacement of Kashmiri Pandits that occured as an exodus out of
> Kashmir post 1988 was not confined to those numbers who physically moved out
> of Kashmir but also those who used to but now could not go back. Many were
> 'forced out' by the situation. Many had to 'stay out' because of the
> situation.
>
> Census figures and numbers from Electoral Rolls could never give the full
> picture of the Internal Displacement.
>
>
>
>
> --- On Mon, 8/25/08, S. Jabbar <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: S. Jabbar <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oranges won't work anymore
> To: "Kashmir Affairs" <kashaffairs at yahoo.co.uk>, "Sarai" <
> reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 2:41 PM
>
> Dear Murtaza,
>
> The official figures of GoI put the Pandit refugees or internally displaced
> persons (not migrants) at 100,000.  The Pandit organisations dispute that
> and claim a higher number.
>
> You put the numbers of Muslims massacred in Jammu in 1947 as 250,000.  The
> Statesman correspondent in '47 had reported 60,000 dead.  Since I found
> this
> a very high figure even when compared to massacres in the Punjab (because
> the killings in Jammu happened within a much shorter period) I had
> interviewed old-timers of Jammu who were witness to the times and
> specifically asked about this figure.  Each had felt the figure highly
> exaggerated-- including Ved Bhasin, Balraj Puri and others who have
> otherwise opposed communalism all their lives.
>
> You also quote the number of Kashmiri refugees post-1990 in Pakistan as
> 100,000.  This is again an inflated figure.  The official Pakistani figure
> is 15,000.  When I met with Kashmiri youth in Rawalpindi 2 years ago and
> they had asked me to do something to enable them to return, they had put
> their figures at 30,000.  I would guess it's somewhere in the middle.
>
> In times of crisis some feel the need to inflate figures.  If there are 6
> rapes it's not good enough, it has to be the whole village of women.  If
> 2,000 are killed it seems insignificant when other sites of horror like
> Cambodia, Vietnam, the battlefields of the First World War, the
> concentration camps of the Second can claim millions dead.
>
> Can we pause for a moment and see what it is we are doing?
>
>
> On 8/25/08 1:39 PM, "Kashmir Affairs" <kashaffairs at yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > Pawan,
> - There is by no way, I repeat no way, more than 100,000 Kashmiri
> > Pandits as migrants. And this number is almost same as those Kashmiri
> Muslims
> > who were forced to migrate to Muzzaffarabad. While I am not trivilizing
> > migration (without any prejudice to the stated cause) I think it is
> important
> > that when we talk about migration - we have to talk about both. In
> addition,
> > two million Kashmiri migrants living in various Pakistani cities have to
> be
> > included into it as there is at least half a million of them who would
> like to
> > come back.
>
> in solidarity,
> Murtaza
>
> --- On Mon, 25/8/08, Pawan Durani
> > <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Pawan Durani
> > <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oranges won't work
> > anymore
> To: kashaffairs at yahoo.co.uk
> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net, "Aditya Raj
> > Kaul" <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
> Date: Monday, 25 August, 2008, 5:48
> > AM
>
> Murtazas figures seem to be as good as his "impartial" understanding
> of
> > Kashmir. What a figure ? 1,00,000 KP's migrated out of Kashmir !
> I wonder how
> > many marks Murtaza got in mathematics , unless he was very good only at
> > divisions.
>
> Pawan
>
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 3:48 AM, Kashmir Affairs
> > <kashaffairs at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Wonderful. Indian 'democracy' has only one
> > policy prescription in Kashmir - whole scale murder. A friend who has
> been
> at
> > very top post in IB recently wrote back to me that 'those who
> don't want to
> > live in India should migrate'. It seems had they not attacked the LoC
> March
> > whole Kashmir would have gone to the otherside. Not a bad proposition in
> my
> > view - life is more precious than land.
>
>
> In 1947 - quarter a million were
> > massacred in Jammu and two million forced to migrate.
>
> In 1990 - 100,000
> > Pandits had to leave and similar number of Kashmiri Muslims from villages
> > along the LoC migrated to Muzzaffarabad.
>
> In 2008 - thousands of Muslim
> > families have been forced to leave Jammu and adjoining Hindu majority
> > areas.
>
> - 'Democracy' is just getting better. And what a wonderful way of
> > scapegoating - anti-nationls, terrorists.
>
> Welcome to Rene Gerrard's world -
> > Mimesis and Violence.
>
>
>
> Murtaza Shibli
>
> www.kashmiraffairs.org
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On
> > Sun, 24/8/08, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Aditya
> > Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
>
> Subject: [Reader-list] Oranges won't work
> > anymore
>
> To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>
> Date: Sunday, 24 August,
> > 2008, 7:16 PM
>
>
>
>   *Oranges won't work anymore*
>
>
>
> By Joginder Singh,
> > Ex-Director CBI
>
>
>
>
>
>  The CRPF Inspector-General was transferred from Srinagar
> > on August 13 after
>
> an uproar in the Kashmir Valley, led by terrorists and
> > their supporters, who
>
> alleged excesses by the Central paramilitary force. He
> > was also denied the
>
> President's police medal for fear of controversy and
> > wider protests. There
>
> is nothing new in this kind of approach as the
> > decision-makers are far
>
> removed from reality. Meanwhile, it is the police and
> > the security forces
>
> that continue to face life-and-death situations, standing
> > between chaos and
>
> order.
>
>
>
>  In 1990s, the then Governor of Jammu & Kashmir
> > lost his job for taking a
>
> tough stand against anti-nationalist elements. That
> > did not help the
>
> situation, nor will the recent transfer of the CRPF
> > Inspector-General
>
> restore peace. On the contrary, it will embolden
> > separatists and terrorists
>
> who will now think that they can get away with
> > anything.
>
>
>
>  Wherever the Government of the day has pursued the policy of
> > appeasement
>
> and has compromised on basic values, it has invited trouble.
> > Terrorism in
>
> the Valley flourishes in direct proportion to the political will
> > to deal
>
> with the same. It commenced with the kidnapping of Ms Mehbooba Mufti,
> > the
>
> daughter of Mufti Mohammed Sayed, former Home Minister, who is now a
> > former
>
> Chief Minister of Jammu & Kashmir. To secure her release, the
> > then
>
> Government had freed five dreaded terrorists. This emboldened
> > the
>
> separatists and the terrorists, and was enough to start a series of
> > chain
>
> reactions in the Valley from 1988 onwards. I am an eyewitness to
> > these
>
> events as I was the InspectorGeneralof the CRPF in Srinagar at the
> > time.
>
>
>
>  The Government's tendency to sweep such incidents under the carpet
> > has
>
> today resulted in terrorists openly dictating terms to the people;
> > enforcing
>
> the *purdah* system for women, closing down beauty parlours and
> > cinema
>
> houses, etc. The Prime Minister, like many before him, gave a
> > laudable
>
> speech from the ramparts of the Red Fort on Independence day this
> > year as he
>
> appealed to the masses to shun communalism.
>
>
>
>  But unfortunately,
> > the whole agitation in the Kashmir Valley is based on a
>
> communal ideology.
> > The truth is, communalism in one community generates
>
> communalism in others.
> > Otherwise, how could hordes of people led by
>
> terrorists start a rally with
> > the declared aim of crossing the LoC into
>
> Muzaffarabad? The Government should
> > have responded that those who cross the
>
> LoC illegally will not be allowed
> > back into the country.
>
>
>
>  A series of misconceived policies, or the so-called
> > people-to-people
>
> contact, have brought about this situation. Otherwise, how
> > could a
>
> mainstream political party demand that Pakistani currency be declared
> > legal
>
> tender in Jammu & Kashmir? It would be wrong to say
> > that
>
> 'transferring' 97
>
> acres of forest land to the Sri Amarnath Shrine Board
> > has led to the present
>
> crisis. The separatists and terrorists have been going
> > all-out to create
>
> disturbances and problems as per the following report of
> > the Jammu &
>
> Kashmir
>
> Government:
>
>
>
>  "A total of 42,147 people, including
> > 20,647 militants and 5,024 security
>
> personnel were killed in the State
> > between January 1990 and the middle of
>
> February 2007... Violence left 33,885
> > people, including 12,124 security
>
> personnel and 21,659 civilians injured
> > during the same period in the
>
> State... 11,221 civilians were killed by
> > militants and another 1,678 lost
>
> their lives in grenade and Improvised
> > Explosive Device explosions, while 173
>
> civilians were killed when they were
> > caught in clashes between militants. A
>
> total of 3,404 civilians were killed
> > in cross-firing incidents between
>
> security forces and militants... The
> > highest number of 1,438 civilians were
>
> killed in 1996, the year elections
> > were held after a gap of seven year,
>
> while the highest number of 3,602 Army
> > and other paramilitary personnel lost
>
> their lives fighting militants in the
> > same year. Jammu and Kashmir Police
>
> lost 537 personnel since January 1990. As
> > many as 438 Special Police
>
> Officers engaged by the police in
> > counter-insurgency operations were killed.
>
> 127 Village Defence Committee
> > members were killed fighting militants in the
>
> State. 613 security personnel
> > were killed in a single year in 2001, which
>
> was again the highest."
>
>
>
>  Now,
> > the question arises as to what can be done. Also whether what is being
>
> done
> > is sufficient. In 1990, the midnight protests were sparked by the call
>
> given
> > by 1,100 mosques, which had installed loudspeakers to call the
>
> faithful to
> > prayer. Loudspeakers in Kashmir's mosques, then as now, are
>
> used
>
> to give
> > calls for anti-national activities, asking the people to gather in
>
> the
> > streets or at a particular spot to stage demonstrations. The then
>
> Governor
> > had ordered the disconnection of these loudspeakers, which itself
>
> led to
> > protests.
>
>
>
>  It is a fact that many terrorists take shelter in places of
> > worship. During
>
> my recent visit to the US I was told that the police had,
> > with the
>
> co-operation of the Muslim community and their religious leaders,
> > installed
>
> CCTV cameras in mosques to monitor any criminal activity. In a
> > situation
>
> like that which prevails in the Kashmir Valley, which has been
> > highly
>
> communalised, it is impossible to get any kind of evidence to
> > prove
>
> anti-national activities as no witness will be willing to come forth
> > to
>
> depose. Mrs Margaret Thatcher used to say publicity is the oxygen
> > of
>
> terrorism. Any publicity which eulogises terrorism should be discouraged,
> > if
>
> not completely banned.
>
>
>
>  Terrorist leaders, their supporters and
> > sympathisers should be immobilised
>
> by using the present laws and detained
> > outside Jammu & Kashmir. The
>
> Government has announced financial assistance
> > for the families of terrorists
>
> on the grounds that it is not their fault if
> > the only earning member of
>
> their family becomes a militant. This approach is
> > fraught with danger and
>
> the sooner it is given up the better. It should not
> > become a scheme to help
>
> traitors.
>
>
>
>  Many so-called intellectuals talk about
> > a referendum in the Valley. With
>
> Pakistan having hijacked the anti-India
> > movement, any referendum or election
>
> will be irrelevant at this point of
> > time. The first priority is to drive the
>
> Pakistani terrorists out of the
> > Valley and send them to the country of their
>
> origin. The Government should
> > stop all dialogue with these militants who are
>
> nothing more than agents of
> > Pakistan. Only a tough approach will send the
>
> right signal that the
> > Government means
> > business.
>
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