[Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 61, Issue 130

[Kshmendra Kaul]

Dear Chanchal
 
I would like to reproduce what I had written to you, requested you on 26/12/2007
 
Re: [Reader-list] Idol worship
[ Mailinglist ] by reader @ 26.12.2007 13:37 CEST
Via: Kshmendra Kaul

Dear Chanchal

This Reader List is not meant for the comparative study of religions. My advice and request would be to avoid religious discourses especially of the kind "my religion is better than yours"

Religion does influence and interfere into political and sociological matters. That cannot be ignored but any comment/analysis needs to have specificity to a situation/issue.

Chanchal, I belong to what is generally known as "Hinduism". Yet, the "Dharmik" precepts that are dear to me and that fascinate me are quite a distance from what "Hinduism" has become.

My point is that just as I could find many things to criticise in Islam or amongst Muslims. I could also pick many things to criticise about Hinduism and Hindus.

Muslims and Christians are as much a part of India as a Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Jain, Agnostic, Atheist... etc etc. We should look for the affirmatives (as well as negations) that would consolidate each ones contribution to a healthier India.

Criticising the word or action of one who seeks to damage India is as much applicable to a Hindu as it is to a Muslim or Christian or any other one.

Kshmendra Kaul


--- On Wed, 8/27/08, chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 61, Issue 130
To: "Kuhu Tanvir" <kuhutanvir at gmail.com>, reader-list at sarai.net
Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 2:46 PM

He..he.. does it matter... you marry four or as many as possible... four is from
your own religion.. and the rest is that your Right hand possesses... Isn't
it enough to close the debate about women here...
Where in Islam there any room for women...

Let me tell you... Hinduism is more natural Faith than any other... Hinduism is
not Religion.. not bounded... What you see today is Islamized and Christianized
Hinduism... 
But pure Hinduism deals very positively about women and sex...

If men are asked to be treated as God by women, women are treated as Goddess by
men... Hinduism doesn't say that God lives somewhere in the sky and your job
is to carry his hatred on earth... Hinduism says, if God is to be reached it has
to start from you, by inculcating Godly qualities first in you, by treating
every creation with respect to the height of worship.. 

Sex is worshippable, Sex is not eroticism, Sex is not about physical pleasure
in Hinduism.. Sex is about purity of relationship that becomes the basis of
continuity of life, basis of creation... And Sex is not seen as dirty thing in
Hinduism..  But it is surely said that if sex is practiced in dirty manner it is
devastating for individual... 
How can you compare the theory of Hinduism with any other Religion... not at
all... 

You thought I am talking about Islam or Christianity without reading Quran or
Bible... nope... I have many lines of Quran ready again to be thrown about women
which clearly says what is meant by women held by Right hand... but I was
waiting for your reply on the first set itself... 

Can you tell publicly now that Islam prohibits Muslims to take friendships
outside their Religion... Can you publicly say that Islam do not advocate hatred
and massacre against other Religions... Throughout Quran the verses repeatedly
say that Non-Believers has a place in Fire of Hell... Every Surah teaches
hatred... I can start quoted Surah after Surah... and you say this is Religion..
God teaches hatred and their people has created havoc in this world... Anyway, I
do not want to bring such harsh truth... you provoked me to quote... or else I
would have been abstract in my talk...

If some christian will object my statement I will quote Bible also... But my
question is simple... Was God dumb to create Sanatan Dharma from millions of
years and suddenly he got intelligence that he created Islam...  Was he dumb
that he said his creations are respectable and suddenly he becomes aggressive
and asks Muslims to kill anything that is not Islam and not human... 

If Islam thinks God is some different entity then also it should understand
that... A painter is not respected unless his paintings are preserved with
dignity... A painters respect is worship of his painting... 

However... let us focus on non-religion and only nation... M.F.Hussain has
painted India nude.. and that is what the concern is... he should not be
pardoned... People in Kashmir piss on Indian flag and that is not pardonable...
Gilani says that Secularists of Nationalists are all enemies of Islam and
Bukhari says that all Terrorists and Simi activists must be released or else
Muslims will impose a bigger Kranti than 1947 and this is not tolerable...

India has to take a stand today or tomorrow to deal with separatists...




----- Original Message ----
From: Kuhu Tanvir <kuhutanvir at gmail.com>
To: reader-list at sarai.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 11:46:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 61, Issue 130

Where does your quotation say that you are allowed to marry as many as
'your
capacity' as you earlier claimed? And the position on women in any
religious
text is a completely different issue, which has room for debate, but that is
not what you said earlier. Is it?

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 11:34 AM, <reader-list-request at sarai.net> wrote:

> Send reader-list mailing list submissions to
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> than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..."
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: reader-list Digest, Vol 61, Issue 127 (chanchal malviya)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:03:59 -0700 (PDT)
> From: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 61, Issue 127
> To: Kuhu Tanvir <kuhutanvir at gmail.com>, reader-list at sarai.net
> Message-ID: <762848.52529.qm at web90404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> And this is what is to be understood by Hindus...
> M.F.Hussain being a Muslim has every right to do anything to Hindu
> Religion..
> But Hindus do not have any right to say anything about Islam..
> This is not the way to talk... Talk sense and discuss.. or else please do
> not visit the topic...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Kuhu Tanvir <kuhutanvir at gmail.com>
> To: reader-list at sarai.net
> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:59:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 61, Issue 127
>
> Husain Exhibition Attacked in Delhi
> Re: Chanchal
> Please, please get yourself some help, and also read a few history books
> and
> the Hindu texts you supposedly base yourself on. And please don't be
naive
> enough to say things like in Christianity sex and love are equal and that
> Muslims are allowed to have as many marriages. You have no right to make
> unnecessary and sorry to say this but utterly illiterate comments like
> this.
> You know nothing about Hinduism, Islam or Christianity, so please
don't
> waste your time or the patience of others.
> Funnily enough, it is ok for you to make these hurtful remarks about other
> religions, and you roam around scott-free while an artist of the stature
of
> Hussain is not allowed to paint what he likes. It is shameful that we have
> to hear the voices of the likes of you.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 10:40 AM, <reader-list-request at sarai.net>
wrote:
>
> > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to
> >        reader-list at sarai.net
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >        https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >        reader-list-request at sarai.net
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >        reader-list-owner at sarai.net
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re: Husain Exhibition Attacked in Delhi (Vedavati Jogi)
> >   2. Re: 15 Hindu families migrate from Dhalera to Poonch
> >      (chanchal malviya)
> >   3. Re: 15 Hindu families migrate from Dhalera to Poonch
> >      (chanchal malviya)
> >
> >
> >
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:35:26 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Husain Exhibition Attacked in Delhi
> > To: vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com
> > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> > Message-ID: <682394.87182.qm at web57705.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > beautiful piece of writing chanchal!
> > accept my hearty congratulations for that.
> > i find these liberals, secularists etc. more dangerous than muslim
> > extremists.
> > and i am very happy that nowadays many 'communal' voices are
being heard
> on
> > readers list which was once dominated by 'seculars'
> >
> > vedavati
> >
> > --- On Wed, 8/27/08, chanchal malviya
<chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > From: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Husain Exhibition Attacked in Delhi
> > To: "A Khanna" <A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk>,
"Prabhakar Singh" <
> > prabhakardelhi at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> > Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 12:03 PM
> >
> > Dear Khanna,
> >
> > 1. There are people in this world who are not ready to take the
positive
> > side
> > of their own identity. There are people who would love to rape their
own
> > mother
> > and motherland. And there are some people who even protect their
> intention
> > as
> > personal attitude. Great. Not to say anything to them.
> > 2. You telling that motherland is a metaphor and nothing else
explains in
> > itself what you feel about India. I am sure such person also feel the
> same
> > for
> > their own mother and sister. And I have written earlier that such
person
> > would
> > not come to protect their mother also, what to say about the broader
> > concept of
> > motherland.
> > 3. As far as Hinduism is concerned, it has to be recognized through
the
> > text
> > only. It cannot be recognized at least now by actions of people.
Because
> > India
> > is more Islamic and Christianized than a Hindu country. Of course,
people
> > like
> > you are a part of it. Hinduism is a mere subject of attack in India.
What
> I
> > told
> > about Hinduism is exactly what is HInduism. And why Hinduism, this
word
> > came
> > into existence only when other Religions forced it upon the people of
> > Sanatan
> > Dharma.
> >
> > I know you will not be able to understand the difference between
Dharma
> and
> > Religion. For you and Gandhiji both are same. But Dharma means
Righteous
> > duty
> > and Religion is what you all are talking about. Hinduism is science
and
> > teaches
> > righteous duty in scientific manner. World outside India is
recognizing
> > this,
> > but our Indians will understand it only when a 'Gora' will
come and say
> > and that also when he is ruling us. Sorry.
> >
> > Sex is a power of nature that is to be won by human through various
> > methodologies described in Hindu text. And that is an important step
> > towards
> > Self-Realization. Attempt is that only. Women taking bath nude
didn't
> cover
> > their body when Sukdeva (son of Veda Vyas) crossed them, because they
> knew
> > that
> > he is a child in his nature on this matter. But they immediately took
> cover
> > when
> > Veda Vyas crossed.
> > There are many stories where Saints are being enticed by Apsaras for
sex.
> > And
> > the theme of all story is same - sex is a very powerful natural
factor.
> And
> > winning over it is the biggest win in life.
> > If sex would have been so prominent in Hindus, we would have found
Hindu
> > society also marrying multitude of women.
> > Please do not try to put Hinduism under charge, for this.
> > I have already told you the meaning of Deities, and yet you do not
> > understand
> > and ask me stupid questions.
> >
> > Unlike Islam, where one is allowed to marry as many as they like as
per
> > their
> > capacity and in addition keep as many women as their right hand
posses
> > (Hindu
> > women) for sex. It is unlike Christian where sex and love are the
same
> > thing.
> >
> > M.F.Hussain is a gift of Islam. So, he will see even his motherland
only
> > with
> > his Madhuri attitude. No, he is seeing India nude with his Islamic
> > attitude. He
> > has seen Madhuri also with his Islamic attitude, though film stars
have a
> > different life style and we may not be protective of them in this
matter.
> >
> > It is so simple, if M.F.Hussain is so clean, let him paint his
mother. Or
> > if
> > you or the protector of M.F.Hussain has so large heart, please send a
> > photograph
> > of your mother to him and ask him to paint her nude. Let me see, how
many
> > of you
> > are not of double standard.
> > Either you all are in favor of Darul-Islam, or you are abusing your
own
> > motherland by supporting bloody Hussain.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: A Khanna <A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk>
> > To: Prabhakar Singh <prabhakardelhi at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>; inder salim
> > <indersalim at gmail.com>; reader-list at sarai.net
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 3:36:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Husain Exhibition Attacked in Delhi
> >
> > chanchal, prabhakar, Everyone Else,
> >
> > there are three issues i'd like to reflect on in light of your
rather
> > rabid postings on the issues of the attack on M.F. Husain's
> > exhibition. Apologies for the rather long posting, i do hope some of
> > you will find it interesting.
> >
> > First, a rather obvious contestation relating to Chanchal's
gratuitous
> > offer to speak the 'truth' of 'Hinudism', and more
broadly, the
> >
> > aggressive claim of Hindutva forces of a monopoly of what the terms
> > 'Hindu' and 'Hinduism' may mean. More particularly,
this is a
> > contestation of the place of sexualness and eroticism in them. What
> > makes it possible for the claim to be made that 'sex is not
erotic in
> > hinduism' on the one hand, and the demeaning of artists who
brought
> > out erotics in sex as 'failed' Hindus? What exactly is the
fear of the
> >
> > erotic? Why are these strange people trying to cleave eroticism away
> > from the lives of 'Hindus'??
> >
> > Surely you are aware that there is a diversity of practices,
> > festivals, mythologies, political economies, cosmologies if you like,
> > in different parts of the country and in different communities in the
> > same regions, that may lay claim to the name 'Hindu'. This is
even in
> > the face of colonial, and more recent hindu fundamentalist, attempts
> > to reduce this diversity into a rather boring, often  textual,
> > normative frame. Chanchal offers, in other words, one peculiar vision
> > of some 'pure' or 'original' 'Hinduism' as
though it
> > exists in texts
> > (particular ones that by perhaps little more than historical
> > serendipity, and sex anxious coloniality, came to be seen as
> > containing the 'truth' of 'Hindu culture'), rather
than in the
> >
> > embodiment and practices of people. chanchal's vision, of a
"faith
> > (not religion) that talks about winning over the senses (particularly
> > sex)" is one that, for the large part, stands miles away from
various
> > realities, practices and beliefs of those who consider themselves
> > 'Hindu'.
> >
> > In my travels around India researching sexualness and eroticism I
> > encountered a confounding multiplicity of festivals, rituals,
> > identities and idioms in which eroticism, desire and sexualness are
> > central. Way too many of these take place in temples, way too many of
> > these are central to local religious practices, and the logics and
> > experiences of faith, way too many of these lay claim to being
> > 'Hindu', for me to accept chanchal's description of
Hinduism as an
> >
> > achievement over sex. Or of the Lingam as light. (is it just me or
> > does this sounds closer to a Victorian Christianity? – a reading of
> > colonial anxieties around sex race and gender into the truth of the
> > self?)  So chanchal, unfortunately yours is one peculiar vision of
> > 'hindu', and a pathetically unimaginative one at that. It
sounds to me
> >
> > like the collective voice of a masculinist upper caste that is yet to
> > come to terms with (or even recognise) the damage done to it through
> > the colonial experience and one which clings to rather fragile
stories
> > of the self. And it is unfortunate that the political economy of
> > Hindutva allows such a vision so much importance today. (Let me
> > clarify that i am not particularly invested or interested in
> > reclaiming Hindu from the bare teeth of the aggressive masculinist
> > claimants. But i do want to point to the right of others to do so.)
> >
> > The second interesting point in the postings is the tension around
> > nudity. Nakedness. Such a beautiful experience. Do you not love the
> > human body? Do you not love your own selves? Is it a fear or disgust
> > with the self or some other trauma that brings about such anxiety
> > around nakedness? But ofcourse this is not just the representation of
> > the naked human body that seems to have caused this anxiety – it
seems
> > to be, more precisely, that you necessarily see sexualness and
> > eroticism in the naked human body. But hold on, it is not just
> > sexualness and eroticism of the naked human body that has caused this
> > anxiety, it is a very particular nakedness – the nakedness of
> > 'Motherland India'. Because, the problem with 'perverted
> > Husain' is
> > that to him "Mother Indian and Madhuri are the same" –
therefore,
> > actually its alright for him to paint Madhuri, in fact you probably
> > sat at the edge of your seat, enthralled as many of us were, as
> > Madhuri oh so sensuously thrust her beautiful breasts forward,
> > inviting you to a world of phantasmic pleasure, nevermind the
> > performance of outrage at the LYRICS of Choli Ke Peechhe (and i'm
not
> > talking merely of pleasure for the male gaze of Masculine Men. I for
> > one, wanted to be Madhuri). Its the nakedness of Mother India, or
> > Motherland India that caused anxiety. So lets face this ponderous
> > image of a naked, sexualised Mother India head on. There are two
> > things that i find fascinating here.
> >
> > First, the Motherland is a metaphor. A very powerful metaphor
> > admittedly. But a metaphor nonetheless. India is experienced as many
> > things, and through many metaphors – a place, sometimes a
'people', a
> >
> > postcolonial nation state, a geographical entity with multiple and
> > complex cartographic existences, a cricket team, a zone of intense
> > gastronomic density, a colonising force, an a series of competing and
> > collaborating political economies...But India is not simply a woman.
> > And Kashmir is not the head of this woman (as we were unfortunately
> > taught in school in the 80s). The power of this metaphor is truly
> > fascinating.
> >
> > But how does one strip a metaphor?? This must be one hell of a
> > brilliant painting! (on which note, are there any weblinks to images
> > of this painting? If someone knows a link i implore you, please share
> > it on this list). If it is true that this painting has managed to
> > actually bring this metaphor into an embodiment, and then brought out
> > an eroticism in it (rather than what it seems like, the attackers not
> > having even really seen and experienced the the painting) then what
it
> > has done is expose Mother India as a metaphor, and weakened the power
> > that 'she' wields. Brilliant. The second thing is of course
that once
> > we see Mother India as a metaphor into which we are constantly
> > investing a sense of reality, the metaphor becomes a contested space.
> > And perhaps this is what is creating anxiety for the likes of
> > prabhakar and chanchal?
> >
> > So lets look at what it is about the stripping of this metaphor that
> > has gotten them, and the attackers of the exhibition so aggressive?
> > What is the power of this metaphor? One of prabhakar's email hits
the
> > nail on the head. "If some artist in the name of art paints your
> > mother nude and displays it in art galleries and exhibitions to
public
> > how would you feel and how would you react?", s/he asks. A
similar
> > point is made by chanchal when s/he says "I am sure, a person
who
> > paints his motherland nude, must have done much more nonesense (sic)
> > to his mother and sister". This leads me to understand that the
> > anxiety over the depiction of Mother India in such a way that she may
> > be seen to be sexualised, as erotic, is actually an anxiety around
the
> > possibility that heris mother is sexual, or has an erotic side to
her.
> > Is it scary, prabhakar, chanchal, for you to imagine that your mother
> > may be a sexual being with erotic desires, and with a body that is
her
> > own, and which can be naked? Is it a fear of this possibility that
> > evokes in you, such strong emotions when you see (or perhaps hear of)
> > what some artist has done on a piece of canvas with paint? Is it this
> > fear that you will allow to dominate your very imagination of the
> > Nation of India? Freudian psychobabble, in other words, offers itself
> > up tantalisingly here. Is their Hindu nation structured around an
> > Oedipal anxiety over desire for the mother? (ugh!)
> >
> > The troubling effect of this is of course the denial in nationalist
> > discourse of sexualness or rather the right to sexualness of women,
as
> > after all, the big obligation on the good woman is to become the
> > mother of (male) children. This justifies mechanisms of regulation
> > over women's sexualness, and the meting out of punishment and
> > exclusion to those who fail to live within these boundaries, or
> > transgress them at will. The protests against the film Fire being a
> > case in point. But how does a woman become a mother (over and over
> > again, atleast until she begets a Son), when she is bereft of
> > sexualness? Is this an imagination of immaculate conception, or, a
> > belief that the only form of legitimate sex is heterosexual rape? The
> > point here is that if the metaphor of the Motherland and the lives of
> > women must feed into each other, the demand for the recognition of
> > sexualness and women's right to sexuality must also address the
> > sexualness of the metaphor of Mother India.
> >
> > This brings me to my last point. I was brought up with a sense of
> > patriotism, stories of the freedom struggle, stories of the success
of
> > Big Nehruvian development and images of Mother India. In fact i
> > sometimes still experience a sense of nostalgia for that heady
emotion
> > of being part of that particular 'something bigger'. (yes, i
cried
> > when i watched Rang De Basanti). I have, in other words, experienced
> > the power of Mother India, and surely all that investment by the
state
> > into making sure that this experience marks my psyche forever entails
> > me to owning the metaphor. I claim the right, in other words to
invest
> > this metaphor with things. If i bring my travels around India to bear
> > on this, i'd say 'Mother India', to me, is one hell of
beautiful,
> > sensual, sexual, erotic figure, a polymorphous queer body, who
laughs,
> > flirts, makes love, has soul-baring intense sex. Oh, and, sigh, S/he
> > also makes steel.
> >
> >
> > Love,
> >
> > akshay
> >
> > --
> > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> > Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > subscribe in
> > the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive:
&lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:56:55 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 15 Hindu families migrate from Dhalera to
> >        Poonch
> > To: Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>,  sarai list
> >        <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Message-ID: <697866.75450.qm at web90407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Hindu families from Kashmir can shift from Kashmir to Jammu.... But
my
> dear
> > friends where will you shift if there are all Kashmirs around...
> > This is the not the true face of Islam... This is the only face of
> Islam...
> > Islam will not accept any other Religion... Gilani told clearly that
> > whether it was secularist of nationalist, all are anti-Islam if they
are
> > non-Muslims...
> > After all Quran tells the Muslims that Allah hates non-Muslims and
Allah
> > has prepared fire for them and it is the duty of Muslims to throw
> > non-Muslims into that fire...
> > Our Hindu secularists will not understand this... They will not read
> Quran
> > and they will follow another person, Mr. Gandhi, who also didn't
read
> > Quran...
> >
> > Either you learn from history or you learn from what happened with
you...
> > Dear Mahatma Gandhi learned from  neither...
> > All invaders in their official chronicles (like Baburnama, Akbarnama,
> etc)
> > have accepted with pride that they massacred 3thousand, 4 thousands
> Infidels
> > and prepared a tower of their head...  But we will not learn from
History
> > what is meant by Infidels in Islam..
> > Gandhiji offered Khilafat to Ali brothers in exchange of support to
> > Non-Cooperation movement (because Muslims didn't fight
Independence war
> till
> > then), but in exchange 10s of thousands of Hindus were massacred by
> Muslims
> > - known as Mopla rebellion..
> >
> > But Gandhiji learnt from none and declared 'Sarva Dharma
Sambhava'...
> > Great.. he neither understood Geeta where Dharma means duty.. not
learnt
> > Koran or Christian where Dharma means hardcore Religion of hatred... 
And
> we
> > call him 'Father of the Nation'...
> >
> > Hindus are nearly eliminated from all Muslim countries.. In India
also
> > HIndus are reducing drastically... But our Hindus are shouting
> Secularism...
> > Arey bhai - secularism walo - thoda Quran bhi padho...
> >
> > I have a question to Muslims... I don't know, why they do not
answer...
> >
> > If GOD is one (monotheism), then how can any worship of this world
point
> to
> > some other GOD or few more GODS (polytheism) when they do not exist
at
> all..
> >  If Allah is the correct name, then was GOD nameless prior to
Islam... Or
> > GOD keeps on changing his name.. and his latest favorite name is
Allah...
> > Why is GOD so powerless that he cannot himself finish off other GODs
and
> > asks instead his followers to massacre the followers of other GODs...
> same
> > story is with Christians also....
> > It is Hinduism alone that says that GOD is within us first and
outside
> > later... It is Hinduism alone that emphasizes on seeing GOD in every
> > creature.. and thus it is Hinduism alone that surpasses the boundary
of
> all
> > other Religion which are mere superstitions about GOD... and asks
human
> to
> > expand their thought over life and GOD... Let us be proud to be a
Hindu
> and
> > let us tell the world that they are HIndus too IF:
> > - they are faithful to their parents, because Hindu dharma is matri
devo,
> > pitra devo..
> > - they are faithful to their job, because Bhagwad Geeta teaches
selfless
> > duty
> > - they are loving animals and birds and not eating them, as Sattvika
is
> the
> > approach
> > - they are waking early and following a disciplined life, as that is
the
> > culture of HIndus
> > and so many things...
> > This is all of Hinduism.. and anyone doing these things are Hindus..
> though
> > they may be by Religion Muslim or Christian... Muslims or Christians,
if
> > they are not Hindus, must not do above things..
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
> > To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:12:14 PM
> > Subject: [Reader-list] 15 Hindu families migrate from Dhalera to
Poonch
> >
> >  *   15 Hindu families migrate from Dhalera to Poonch
> > <http://www.theshadow.in/theshadow/newsdet.aspx?q=4271>  Hindus
> > of Surankote asked to quit or face
> >
consequences*<http://www.theshadow.in/theshadow/newsdet.aspx?q=4271>
> >     8/26/2008 2:37:15 AMLink -
> > http://www.theshadow.in/theshadow/newsdet.aspx?4271
> >
> > King C Bharati
> > Jammu, Aug 25: The worst fears have come true and Poonch has started
its
> > process of becoming another Kashmir with 15 families of Hindus
migrating
> > from Dhalera and Bhench area of Poonch where 2 shops and one house
> > belonging
> > to Pammy Bali were burnt late last night while Hindus in Surankote
have
> > been
> > asked to quit or face the consequences.
> > Most of the families residing in Dhalera and Bhench area have finally
> > migrated to Poonch late last night after huge crowds of Muslims
attacked
> > them and started burning their houses even as administration remained
> > crippled for the fourth consecutive day in Poonch.
> > With the imposition of curfew and army taking over the city the
district
> > administration seems to have gone in deep slumber with little concern
for
> > the crying Hindu population of nearby areas of Poonch where hooligans
are
> > openly burning their shops and house which included some government
> > employees in presence of police.
> > The separatist hooligans are raising pro-Pak slogans and unfurling
> > Pakistani
> > flags with the PDP leaders of the area taking lead in fanning the
worst
> > ever
> > communal violence in this border district.
> > The Vohra administration which is busy appeasing the Kashmiris seems
to
> > have
> > no time for this remote district even as the local administration has
> > already positioned itself in Hands-up situation.,
> > According to reports emanating from Poonch district besides our
> > correspondent Anibhav Misri's dispatches the Bhench and Dhalera
areas are
> > the worst hit at present with entire Hindu population having migrated
> from
> > both the areas late last night after their shops and houses were
burnt.
> > Poonch residents continued their frantic calls to Jammu media seeking
> help
> > and put the number of migrated families to 15.
> > The residents said that the local DSP DR and two Sub-inspectors were
mute
> > spectators during the arson and communal violence yesterday adding
the
> > administration seemed hand in glove with the separatist hooligans who
> > continue to raise pro-Azadi, Pro-Pakistan and anti-India slogans
besides
> > unfurling Pakistani flags in the area.
> > Meanwhile reports from Surankote are also disturbing where sources
said
> > that
> > around 12000 people assembled in Surankote bus stand shouting
anti-India
> > and
> > Pro-Pakistan slogans and warned Hindus of the area to quit or face
> serious
> > consequences.
> > The protestors had earlier pasted posters in this regard which were
> removed
> > by army as police was subjected to severe stone pelting after they
tried
> to
> > remove the posters.
> > There were also reports that Muslims have given a Poonch Challo call
> which
> > was however not confirmed till the last reports came in.
> > The over all situation in Poonch seems volatile and administration
> crippled
> > while Hindus are facing the brunt and with the start of migration
Poonch
> is
> > actually fast becoming another Kashmir within Jammu.
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive:
&lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 15 Hindu families migrate from Dhalera to
> >        Poonch
> > To: Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>,  sarai list
> >        <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Message-ID: <956827.12997.qm at web90402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Dear Aditya,
> >
> > You must understand that our Media, Politicians, Law, Human Rights,
and
> > Secularism all mean that Hindus are bull shits, and they must be
removed.
> > So, it is happening and it will happen. There is no option - we
Hindus
> will
> > have to fight for our survival ourselves... No one is going to come
for
> > us...
> > At the same time, we have to remember that while we fight, we will be
> told
> > terrorists... People who bomb the country are people of GOD, and
people
> who
> > oppose it are terrorists...
> > So, be prepared or prepare your children to either bear a beard
without a
> > moustache and cover your females with black veil... or make them
Arjun to
> > fight the Adharma...
> >
> > You know a secret...
> > Which is the sacred day of Muslims - Friday - Shukrawar...
> > Who was the Guru of Rakshasas (Adharma) - Shukracharya..
> > You can understand rest of the things....
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
> > To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:12:14 PM
> > Subject: [Reader-list] 15 Hindu families migrate from Dhalera to
Poonch
> >
> >  *   15 Hindu families migrate from Dhalera to Poonch
> > <http://www.theshadow.in/theshadow/newsdet.aspx?q=4271>  Hindus
> > of Surankote asked to quit or face
> >
consequences*<http://www.theshadow.in/theshadow/newsdet.aspx?q=4271>
> >     8/26/2008 2:37:15 AMLink -
> > http://www.theshadow.in/theshadow/newsdet.aspx?4271
> >
> > King C Bharati
> > Jammu, Aug 25: The worst fears have come true and Poonch has started
its
> > process of becoming another Kashmir with 15 families of Hindus
migrating
> > from Dhalera and Bhench area of Poonch where 2 shops and one house
> > belonging
> > to Pammy Bali were burnt late last night while Hindus in Surankote
have
> > been
> > asked to quit or face the consequences.
> > Most of the families residing in Dhalera and Bhench area have finally
> > migrated to Poonch late last night after huge crowds of Muslims
attacked
> > them and started burning their houses even as administration remained
> > crippled for the fourth consecutive day in Poonch.
> > With the imposition of curfew and army taking over the city the
district
> > administration seems to have gone in deep slumber with little concern
for
> > the crying Hindu population of nearby areas of Poonch where hooligans
are
> > openly burning their shops and house which included some government
> > employees in presence of police.
> > The separatist hooligans are raising pro-Pak slogans and unfurling
> > Pakistani
> > flags with the PDP leaders of the area taking lead in fanning the
worst
> > ever
> > communal violence in this border district.
> > The Vohra administration which is busy appeasing the Kashmiris seems
to
> > have
> > no time for this remote district even as the local administration has
> > already positioned itself in Hands-up situation.,
> > According to reports emanating from Poonch district besides our
> > correspondent Anibhav Misri's dispatches the Bhench and Dhalera
areas are
> > the worst hit at present with entire Hindu population having migrated
> from
> > both the areas late last night after their shops and houses were
burnt.
> > Poonch residents continued their frantic calls to Jammu media seeking
> help
> > and put the number of migrated families to 15.
> > The residents said that the local DSP DR and two Sub-inspectors were
mute
> > spectators during the arson and communal violence yesterday adding
the
> > administration seemed hand in glove with the separatist hooligans who
> > continue to raise pro-Azadi, Pro-Pakistan and anti-India slogans
besides
> > unfurling Pakistani flags in the area.
> > Meanwhile reports from Surankote are also disturbing where sources
said
> > that
> > around 12000 people assembled in Surankote bus stand shouting
anti-India
> > and
> > Pro-Pakistan slogans and warned Hindus of the area to quit or face
> serious
> > consequences.
> > The protestors had earlier pasted posters in this regard which were
> removed
> > by army as police was subjected to severe stone pelting after they
tried
> to
> > remove the posters.
> > There were also reports that Muslims have given a Poonch Challo call
> which
> > was however not confirmed till the last reports came in.
> > The over all situation in Poonch seems volatile and administration
> crippled
> > while Hindus are facing the brunt and with the start of migration
Poonch
> is
> > actually fast becoming another Kashmir within Jammu.
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive:
&lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > reader-list mailing list
> > reader-list at sarai.net
> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >
> >
> > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 61, Issue 127
> > ********************************************
> >
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> reader-list mailing list
> reader-list at sarai.net
> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>
>
> End of reader-list Digest, Vol 61, Issue 130
> ********************************************
>
_________________________________________
reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
Critiques & Collaborations
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_________________________________________
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Critiques & Collaborations
To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in
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