[Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 61, Issue 127

[Aditya Raj Kaul]

Am I smelling a bit of Limousine Liberal somewhere ? Venom .... has been
their weapon; and at least not mine.

Maybe, Freud helps you with introspection Champ and mature understanding
too.


On 8/27/08, Aarti Sethi <aarti.sethi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> freud had a wonderful term for this aditya which you would do well to
> reflect on: the narcissim of minor difference he called it. unfortunately
> the subtle nuanced difference between dhatri's bakwas and chanchal's
> nonsense escapes me, but of course you are the prime aesthetician of rabid
> right-wing venom :)
>
> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> You are so right for a change. Its just you. So, time a check up is done ?
>> :)
>>
>> On 8/27/08, Aarti Sethi <aarti.sethi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > is it just me or is everyone getting a strange sense of deja
>> vous?.....like
>> > the old hindi film line goes "Ji aapka chehra kuch jaana pehchaana sa
>> lagta
>> > hai"....does chanchal not sound like our old friend dhatri (who
>> > incidentally
>> > we have not heard a sqeak out of for some time now)? who sounds like
>> > prabhakar, who sometimes sounds like radhikarajen, who for a time we
>> > thought
>> > was vedavati....
>> >
>> > Is it a computer programme? Or a cloning initiative by the RSS?
>> > Fascinating!
>> >
>> > A
>> >
>> > On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 11:33 AM, chanchal malviya <
>> > chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > And this is what is to be understood by Hindus...
>> > > M.F.Hussain being a Muslim has every right to do anything to Hindu
>> > > Religion..
>> > > But Hindus do not have any right to say anything about Islam..
>> > > This is not the way to talk... Talk sense and discuss.. or else please
>> do
>> > > not visit the topic...
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message ----
>> > > From: Kuhu Tanvir <kuhutanvir at gmail.com>
>> > > To: reader-list at sarai.net
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:59:56 AM
>> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 61, Issue 127
>> > >
>> > > Husain Exhibition Attacked in Delhi
>> > > Re: Chanchal
>> > > Please, please get yourself some help, and also read a few history
>> books
>> > > and
>> > > the Hindu texts you supposedly base yourself on. And please don't be
>> > naive
>> > > enough to say things like in Christianity sex and love are equal and
>> that
>> > > Muslims are allowed to have as many marriages. You have no right to
>> make
>> > > unnecessary and sorry to say this but utterly illiterate comments like
>> > > this.
>> > > You know nothing about Hinduism, Islam or Christianity, so please
>> don't
>> > > waste your time or the patience of others.
>> > > Funnily enough, it is ok for you to make these hurtful remarks about
>> > other
>> > > religions, and you roam around scott-free while an artist of the
>> stature
>> > of
>> > > Hussain is not allowed to paint what he likes. It is shameful that we
>> > have
>> > > to hear the voices of the likes of you.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 10:40 AM, <reader-list-request at sarai.net>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to
>> > > >        reader-list at sarai.net
>> > > >
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>> > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>> > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > > > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..."
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Today's Topics:
>> > > >
>> > > >   1. Re: Husain Exhibition Attacked in Delhi (Vedavati Jogi)
>> > > >   2. Re: 15 Hindu families migrate from Dhalera to Poonch
>> > > >      (chanchal malviya)
>> > > >   3. Re: 15 Hindu families migrate from Dhalera to Poonch
>> > > >      (chanchal malviya)
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > >
>> > > > Message: 1
>> > > > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:35:26 -0700 (PDT)
>> > > > From: Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
>> > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Husain Exhibition Attacked in Delhi
>> > > > To: vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com
>> > > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
>> > > > Message-ID: <682394.87182.qm at web57705.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
>> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > beautiful piece of writing chanchal!
>> > > > accept my hearty congratulations for that.
>> > > > i find these liberals, secularists etc. more dangerous than muslim
>> > > > extremists.
>> > > > and i am very happy that nowadays many 'communal' voices are being
>> > heard
>> > > on
>> > > > readers list which was once dominated by 'seculars'
>> > > >
>> > > > vedavati
>> > > >
>> > > > --- On Wed, 8/27/08, chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > From: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
>> > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Husain Exhibition Attacked in Delhi
>> > > > To: "A Khanna" <A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk>, "Prabhakar Singh" <
>> > > > prabhakardelhi at yahoo.com>
>> > > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
>> > > > Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 12:03 PM
>> > > >
>> > > > Dear Khanna,
>> > > >
>> > > > 1. There are people in this world who are not ready to take the
>> > positive
>> > > > side
>> > > > of their own identity. There are people who would love to rape their
>> > own
>> > > > mother
>> > > > and motherland. And there are some people who even protect their
>> > > intention
>> > > > as
>> > > > personal attitude. Great. Not to say anything to them.
>> > > > 2. You telling that motherland is a metaphor and nothing else
>> explains
>> > in
>> > > > itself what you feel about India. I am sure such person also feel
>> the
>> > > same
>> > > > for
>> > > > their own mother and sister. And I have written earlier that such
>> > person
>> > > > would
>> > > > not come to protect their mother also, what to say about the broader
>> > > > concept of
>> > > > motherland.
>> > > > 3. As far as Hinduism is concerned, it has to be recognized through
>> the
>> > > > text
>> > > > only. It cannot be recognized at least now by actions of people.
>> > Because
>> > > > India
>> > > > is more Islamic and Christianized than a Hindu country. Of course,
>> > people
>> > > > like
>> > > > you are a part of it. Hinduism is a mere subject of attack in India.
>> > What
>> > > I
>> > > > told
>> > > > about Hinduism is exactly what is HInduism. And why Hinduism, this
>> word
>> > > > came
>> > > > into existence only when other Religions forced it upon the people
>> of
>> > > > Sanatan
>> > > > Dharma.
>> > > >
>> > > > I know you will not be able to understand the difference between
>> Dharma
>> > > and
>> > > > Religion. For you and Gandhiji both are same. But Dharma means
>> > Righteous
>> > > > duty
>> > > > and Religion is what you all are talking about. Hinduism is science
>> and
>> > > > teaches
>> > > > righteous duty in scientific manner. World outside India is
>> recognizing
>> > > > this,
>> > > > but our Indians will understand it only when a 'Gora' will come and
>> say
>> > > > and that also when he is ruling us. Sorry.
>> > > >
>> > > > Sex is a power of nature that is to be won by human through various
>> > > > methodologies described in Hindu text. And that is an important step
>> > > > towards
>> > > > Self-Realization. Attempt is that only. Women taking bath nude
>> didn't
>> > > cover
>> > > > their body when Sukdeva (son of Veda Vyas) crossed them, because
>> they
>> > > knew
>> > > > that
>> > > > he is a child in his nature on this matter. But they immediately
>> took
>> > > cover
>> > > > when
>> > > > Veda Vyas crossed.
>> > > > There are many stories where Saints are being enticed by Apsaras for
>> > sex.
>> > > > And
>> > > > the theme of all story is same - sex is a very powerful natural
>> factor.
>> > > And
>> > > > winning over it is the biggest win in life.
>> > > > If sex would have been so prominent in Hindus, we would have found
>> > Hindu
>> > > > society also marrying multitude of women.
>> > > > Please do not try to put Hinduism under charge, for this.
>> > > > I have already told you the meaning of Deities, and yet you do not
>> > > > understand
>> > > > and ask me stupid questions.
>> > > >
>> > > > Unlike Islam, where one is allowed to marry as many as they like as
>> per
>> > > > their
>> > > > capacity and in addition keep as many women as their right hand
>> posses
>> > > > (Hindu
>> > > > women) for sex. It is unlike Christian where sex and love are the
>> same
>> > > > thing.
>> > > >
>> > > > M.F.Hussain is a gift of Islam. So, he will see even his motherland
>> > only
>> > > > with
>> > > > his Madhuri attitude. No, he is seeing India nude with his Islamic
>> > > > attitude. He
>> > > > has seen Madhuri also with his Islamic attitude, though film stars
>> have
>> > a
>> > > > different life style and we may not be protective of them in this
>> > matter.
>> > > >
>> > > > It is so simple, if M.F.Hussain is so clean, let him paint his
>> mother.
>> > Or
>> > > > if
>> > > > you or the protector of M.F.Hussain has so large heart, please send
>> a
>> > > > photograph
>> > > > of your mother to him and ask him to paint her nude. Let me see, how
>> > many
>> > > > of you
>> > > > are not of double standard.
>> > > > Either you all are in favor of Darul-Islam, or you are abusing your
>> own
>> > > > motherland by supporting bloody Hussain.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message ----
>> > > > From: A Khanna <A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk>
>> > > > To: Prabhakar Singh <prabhakardelhi at yahoo.com>
>> > > > Cc: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>; inder salim
>> > > > <indersalim at gmail.com>; reader-list at sarai.net
>> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 3:36:56 AM
>> > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Husain Exhibition Attacked in Delhi
>> > > >
>> > > > chanchal, prabhakar, Everyone Else,
>> > > >
>> > > > there are three issues i'd like to reflect on in light of your
>> rather
>> > > > rabid postings on the issues of the attack on M.F. Husain's
>> > > > exhibition. Apologies for the rather long posting, i do hope some of
>> > > > you will find it interesting.
>> > > >
>> > > > First, a rather obvious contestation relating to Chanchal's
>> gratuitous
>> > > > offer to speak the 'truth' of 'Hinudism', and more broadly, the
>> > > >
>> > > > aggressive claim of Hindutva forces of a monopoly of what the terms
>> > > > 'Hindu' and 'Hinduism' may mean. More particularly, this is a
>> > > > contestation of the place of sexualness and eroticism in them. What
>> > > > makes it possible for the claim to be made that 'sex is not erotic
>> in
>> > > > hinduism' on the one hand, and the demeaning of artists who brought
>> > > > out erotics in sex as 'failed' Hindus? What exactly is the fear of
>> the
>> > > >
>> > > > erotic? Why are these strange people trying to cleave eroticism away
>> > > > from the lives of 'Hindus'??
>> > > >
>> > > > Surely you are aware that there is a diversity of practices,
>> > > > festivals, mythologies, political economies, cosmologies if you
>> like,
>> > > > in different parts of the country and in different communities in
>> the
>> > > > same regions, that may lay claim to the name 'Hindu'. This is even
>> in
>> > > > the face of colonial, and more recent hindu fundamentalist, attempts
>> > > > to reduce this diversity into a rather boring, often  textual,
>> > > > normative frame. Chanchal offers, in other words, one peculiar
>> vision
>> > > > of some 'pure' or 'original' 'Hinduism' as though it
>> > > > exists in texts
>> > > > (particular ones that by perhaps little more than historical
>> > > > serendipity, and sex anxious coloniality, came to be seen as
>> > > > containing the 'truth' of 'Hindu culture'), rather than in the
>> > > >
>> > > > embodiment and practices of people. chanchal's vision, of a "faith
>> > > > (not religion) that talks about winning over the senses
>> (particularly
>> > > > sex)" is one that, for the large part, stands miles away from
>> various
>> > > > realities, practices and beliefs of those who consider themselves
>> > > > 'Hindu'.
>> > > >
>> > > > In my travels around India researching sexualness and eroticism I
>> > > > encountered a confounding multiplicity of festivals, rituals,
>> > > > identities and idioms in which eroticism, desire and sexualness are
>> > > > central. Way too many of these take place in temples, way too many
>> of
>> > > > these are central to local religious practices, and the logics and
>> > > > experiences of faith, way too many of these lay claim to being
>> > > > 'Hindu', for me to accept chanchal's description of Hinduism as an
>> > > >
>> > > > achievement over sex. Or of the Lingam as light. (is it just me or
>> > > > does this sounds closer to a Victorian Christianity? – a reading of
>> > > > colonial anxieties around sex race and gender into the truth of the
>> > > > self?)  So chanchal, unfortunately yours is one peculiar vision of
>> > > > 'hindu', and a pathetically unimaginative one at that. It sounds to
>> me
>> > > >
>> > > > like the collective voice of a masculinist upper caste that is yet
>> to
>> > > > come to terms with (or even recognise) the damage done to it through
>> > > > the colonial experience and one which clings to rather fragile
>> stories
>> > > > of the self. And it is unfortunate that the political economy of
>> > > > Hindutva allows such a vision so much importance today. (Let me
>> > > > clarify that i am not particularly invested or interested in
>> > > > reclaiming Hindu from the bare teeth of the aggressive masculinist
>> > > > claimants. But i do want to point to the right of others to do so.)
>> > > >
>> > > > The second interesting point in the postings is the tension around
>> > > > nudity. Nakedness. Such a beautiful experience. Do you not love the
>> > > > human body? Do you not love your own selves? Is it a fear or disgust
>> > > > with the self or some other trauma that brings about such anxiety
>> > > > around nakedness? But ofcourse this is not just the representation
>> of
>> > > > the naked human body that seems to have caused this anxiety – it
>> seems
>> > > > to be, more precisely, that you necessarily see sexualness and
>> > > > eroticism in the naked human body. But hold on, it is not just
>> > > > sexualness and eroticism of the naked human body that has caused
>> this
>> > > > anxiety, it is a very particular nakedness – the nakedness of
>> > > > 'Motherland India'. Because, the problem with 'perverted
>> > > > Husain' is
>> > > > that to him "Mother Indian and Madhuri are the same" – therefore,
>> > > > actually its alright for him to paint Madhuri, in fact you probably
>> > > > sat at the edge of your seat, enthralled as many of us were, as
>> > > > Madhuri oh so sensuously thrust her beautiful breasts forward,
>> > > > inviting you to a world of phantasmic pleasure, nevermind the
>> > > > performance of outrage at the LYRICS of Choli Ke Peechhe (and i'm
>> not
>> > > > talking merely of pleasure for the male gaze of Masculine Men. I for
>> > > > one, wanted to be Madhuri). Its the nakedness of Mother India, or
>> > > > Motherland India that caused anxiety. So lets face this ponderous
>> > > > image of a naked, sexualised Mother India head on. There are two
>> > > > things that i find fascinating here.
>> > > >
>> > > > First, the Motherland is a metaphor. A very powerful metaphor
>> > > > admittedly. But a metaphor nonetheless. India is experienced as many
>> > > > things, and through many metaphors – a place, sometimes a 'people',
>> a
>> > > >
>> > > > postcolonial nation state, a geographical entity with multiple and
>> > > > complex cartographic existences, a cricket team, a zone of intense
>> > > > gastronomic density, a colonising force, an a series of competing
>> and
>> > > > collaborating political economies...But India is not simply a woman.
>> > > > And Kashmir is not the head of this woman (as we were unfortunately
>> > > > taught in school in the 80s). The power of this metaphor is truly
>> > > > fascinating.
>> > > >
>> > > > But how does one strip a metaphor?? This must be one hell of a
>> > > > brilliant painting! (on which note, are there any weblinks to images
>> > > > of this painting? If someone knows a link i implore you, please
>> share
>> > > > it on this list). If it is true that this painting has managed to
>> > > > actually bring this metaphor into an embodiment, and then brought
>> out
>> > > > an eroticism in it (rather than what it seems like, the attackers
>> not
>> > > > having even really seen and experienced the the painting) then what
>> it
>> > > > has done is expose Mother India as a metaphor, and weakened the
>> power
>> > > > that 'she' wields. Brilliant. The second thing is of course that
>> once
>> > > > we see Mother India as a metaphor into which we are constantly
>> > > > investing a sense of reality, the metaphor becomes a contested
>> space.
>> > > > And perhaps this is what is creating anxiety for the likes of
>> > > > prabhakar and chanchal?
>> > > >
>> > > > So lets look at what it is about the stripping of this metaphor that
>> > > > has gotten them, and the attackers of the exhibition so aggressive?
>> > > > What is the power of this metaphor? One of prabhakar's email hits
>> the
>> > > > nail on the head. "If some artist in the name of art paints your
>> > > > mother nude and displays it in art galleries and exhibitions to
>> public
>> > > > how would you feel and how would you react?", s/he asks. A similar
>> > > > point is made by chanchal when s/he says "I am sure, a person who
>> > > > paints his motherland nude, must have done much more nonesense (sic)
>> > > > to his mother and sister". This leads me to understand that the
>> > > > anxiety over the depiction of Mother India in such a way that she
>> may
>> > > > be seen to be sexualised, as erotic, is actually an anxiety around
>> the
>> > > > possibility that heris mother is sexual, or has an erotic side to
>> her.
>> > > > Is it scary, prabhakar, chanchal, for you to imagine that your
>> mother
>> > > > may be a sexual being with erotic desires, and with a body that is
>> her
>> > > > own, and which can be naked? Is it a fear of this possibility that
>> > > > evokes in you, such strong emotions when you see (or perhaps hear
>> of)
>> > > > what some artist has done on a piece of canvas with paint? Is it
>> this
>> > > > fear that you will allow to dominate your very imagination of the
>> > > > Nation of India? Freudian psychobabble, in other words, offers
>> itself
>> > > > up tantalisingly here. Is their Hindu nation structured around an
>> > > > Oedipal anxiety over desire for the mother? (ugh!)
>> > > >
>> > > > The troubling effect of this is of course the denial in nationalist
>> > > > discourse of sexualness or rather the right to sexualness of women,
>> as
>> > > > after all, the big obligation on the good woman is to become the
>> > > > mother of (male) children. This justifies mechanisms of regulation
>> > > > over women's sexualness, and the meting out of punishment and
>> > > > exclusion to those who fail to live within these boundaries, or
>> > > > transgress them at will. The protests against the film Fire being a
>> > > > case in point. But how does a woman become a mother (over and over
>> > > > again, atleast until she begets a Son), when she is bereft of
>> > > > sexualness? Is this an imagination of immaculate conception, or, a
>> > > > belief that the only form of legitimate sex is heterosexual rape?
>> The
>> > > > point here is that if the metaphor of the Motherland and the lives
>> of
>> > > > women must feed into each other, the demand for the recognition of
>> > > > sexualness and women's right to sexuality must also address the
>> > > > sexualness of the metaphor of Mother India.
>> > > >
>> > > > This brings me to my last point. I was brought up with a sense of
>> > > > patriotism, stories of the freedom struggle, stories of the success
>> of
>> > > > Big Nehruvian development and images of Mother India. In fact i
>> > > > sometimes still experience a sense of nostalgia for that heady
>> emotion
>> > > > of being part of that particular 'something bigger'. (yes, i cried
>> > > > when i watched Rang De Basanti). I have, in other words, experienced
>> > > > the power of Mother India, and surely all that investment by the
>> state
>> > > > into making sure that this experience marks my psyche forever
>> entails
>> > > > me to owning the metaphor. I claim the right, in other words to
>> invest
>> > > > this metaphor with things. If i bring my travels around India to
>> bear
>> > > > on this, i'd say 'Mother India', to me, is one hell of beautiful,
>> > > > sensual, sexual, erotic figure, a polymorphous queer body, who
>> laughs,
>> > > > flirts, makes love, has soul-baring intense sex. Oh, and, sigh, S/he
>> > > > also makes steel.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Love,
>> > > >
>> > > > akshay
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
>> > > > Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > _________________________________________
>> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
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>> > > > subscribe in
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>> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ------------------------------
>> > > >
>> > > > Message: 2
>> > > > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:56:55 -0700 (PDT)
>> > > > From: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
>> > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 15 Hindu families migrate from Dhalera to
>> > > >        Poonch
>> > > > To: Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>,  sarai list
>> > > >        <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > > > Message-ID: <697866.75450.qm at web90407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> > > >
>> > > > Hindu families from Kashmir can shift from Kashmir to Jammu.... But
>> my
>> > > dear
>> > > > friends where will you shift if there are all Kashmirs around...
>> > > > This is the not the true face of Islam... This is the only face of
>> > > Islam...
>> > > > Islam will not accept any other Religion... Gilani told clearly that
>> > > > whether it was secularist of nationalist, all are anti-Islam if they
>> > are
>> > > > non-Muslims...
>> > > > After all Quran tells the Muslims that Allah hates non-Muslims and
>> > Allah
>> > > > has prepared fire for them and it is the duty of Muslims to throw
>> > > > non-Muslims into that fire...
>> > > > Our Hindu secularists will not understand this... They will not read
>> > > Quran
>> > > > and they will follow another person, Mr. Gandhi, who also didn't
>> read
>> > > > Quran...
>> > > >
>> > > > Either you learn from history or you learn from what happened with
>> > you...
>> > > > Dear Mahatma Gandhi learned from  neither...
>> > > > All invaders in their official chronicles (like Baburnama,
>> Akbarnama,
>> > > etc)
>> > > > have accepted with pride that they massacred 3thousand, 4 thousands
>> > > Infidels
>> > > > and prepared a tower of their head...  But we will not learn from
>> > History
>> > > > what is meant by Infidels in Islam..
>> > > > Gandhiji offered Khilafat to Ali brothers in exchange of support to
>> > > > Non-Cooperation movement (because Muslims didn't fight Independence
>> war
>> > > till
>> > > > then), but in exchange 10s of thousands of Hindus were massacred by
>> > > Muslims
>> > > > - known as Mopla rebellion..
>> > > >
>> > > > But Gandhiji learnt from none and declared 'Sarva Dharma
>> Sambhava'...
>> > > > Great.. he neither understood Geeta where Dharma means duty.. not
>> > learnt
>> > > > Koran or Christian where Dharma means hardcore Religion of
>> > hatred...  And
>> > > we
>> > > > call him 'Father of the Nation'...
>> > > >
>> > > > Hindus are nearly eliminated from all Muslim countries.. In India
>> also
>> > > > HIndus are reducing drastically... But our Hindus are shouting
>> > > Secularism...
>> > > > Arey bhai - secularism walo - thoda Quran bhi padho...
>> > > >
>> > > > I have a question to Muslims... I don't know, why they do not
>> answer...
>> > > >
>> > > > If GOD is one (monotheism), then how can any worship of this world
>> > point
>> > > to
>> > > > some other GOD or few more GODS (polytheism) when they do not exist
>> at
>> > > all..
>> > > >  If Allah is the correct name, then was GOD nameless prior to
>> Islam...
>> > Or
>> > > > GOD keeps on changing his name.. and his latest favorite name is
>> > Allah...
>> > > > Why is GOD so powerless that he cannot himself finish off other GODs
>> > and
>> > > > asks instead his followers to massacre the followers of other
>> GODs...
>> > > same
>> > > > story is with Christians also....
>> > > > It is Hinduism alone that says that GOD is within us first and
>> outside
>> > > > later... It is Hinduism alone that emphasizes on seeing GOD in every
>> > > > creature.. and thus it is Hinduism alone that surpasses the boundary
>> of
>> > > all
>> > > > other Religion which are mere superstitions about GOD... and asks
>> human
>> > > to
>> > > > expand their thought over life and GOD... Let us be proud to be a
>> Hindu
>> > > and
>> > > > let us tell the world that they are HIndus too IF:
>> > > > - they are faithful to their parents, because Hindu dharma is matri
>> > devo,
>> > > > pitra devo..
>> > > > - they are faithful to their job, because Bhagwad Geeta teaches
>> > selfless
>> > > > duty
>> > > > - they are loving animals and birds and not eating them, as Sattvika
>> is
>> > > the
>> > > > approach
>> > > > - they are waking early and following a disciplined life, as that is
>> > the
>> > > > culture of HIndus
>> > > > and so many things...
>> > > > This is all of Hinduism.. and anyone doing these things are Hindus..
>> > > though
>> > > > they may be by Religion Muslim or Christian... Muslims or
>> Christians,
>> > if
>> > > > they are not Hindus, must not do above things..
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message ----
>> > > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
>> > > > To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:12:14 PM
>> > > > Subject: [Reader-list] 15 Hindu families migrate from Dhalera to
>> Poonch
>> > > >
>> > > >  *   15 Hindu families migrate from Dhalera to Poonch
>> > > > <http://www.theshadow.in/theshadow/newsdet.aspx?q=4271>  Hindus
>> > > > of Surankote asked to quit or face
>> > > > consequences*<http://www.theshadow.in/theshadow/newsdet.aspx?q=4271
>> >
>> > > >     8/26/2008 2:37:15 AMLink -
>> > > > http://www.theshadow.in/theshadow/newsdet.aspx?4271
>> > > >
>> > > > King C Bharati
>> > > > Jammu, Aug 25: The worst fears have come true and Poonch has started
>> > its
>> > > > process of becoming another Kashmir with 15 families of Hindus
>> > migrating
>> > > > from Dhalera and Bhench area of Poonch where 2 shops and one house
>> > > > belonging
>> > > > to Pammy Bali were burnt late last night while Hindus in Surankote
>> have
>> > > > been
>> > > > asked to quit or face the consequences.
>> > > > Most of the families residing in Dhalera and Bhench area have
>> finally
>> > > > migrated to Poonch late last night after huge crowds of Muslims
>> > attacked
>> > > > them and started burning their houses even as administration
>> remained
>> > > > crippled for the fourth consecutive day in Poonch.
>> > > > With the imposition of curfew and army taking over the city the
>> > district
>> > > > administration seems to have gone in deep slumber with little
>> concern
>> > for
>> > > > the crying Hindu population of nearby areas of Poonch where
>> hooligans
>> > are
>> > > > openly burning their shops and house which included some government
>> > > > employees in presence of police.
>> > > > The separatist hooligans are raising pro-Pak slogans and unfurling
>> > > > Pakistani
>> > > > flags with the PDP leaders of the area taking lead in fanning the
>> worst
>> > > > ever
>> > > > communal violence in this border district.
>> > > > The Vohra administration which is busy appeasing the Kashmiris seems
>> to
>> > > > have
>> > > > no time for this remote district even as the local administration
>> has
>> > > > already positioned itself in Hands-up situation.,
>> > > > According to reports emanating from Poonch district besides our
>> > > > correspondent Anibhav Misri's dispatches the Bhench and Dhalera
>> areas
>> > are
>> > > > the worst hit at present with entire Hindu population having
>> migrated
>> > > from
>> > > > both the areas late last night after their shops and houses were
>> burnt.
>> > > > Poonch residents continued their frantic calls to Jammu media
>> seeking
>> > > help
>> > > > and put the number of migrated families to 15.
>> > > > The residents said that the local DSP DR and two Sub-inspectors were
>> > mute
>> > > > spectators during the arson and communal violence yesterday adding
>> the
>> > > > administration seemed hand in glove with the separatist hooligans
>> who
>> > > > continue to raise pro-Azadi, Pro-Pakistan and anti-India slogans
>> > besides
>> > > > unfurling Pakistani flags in the area.
>> > > > Meanwhile reports from Surankote are also disturbing where sources
>> said
>> > > > that
>> > > > around 12000 people assembled in Surankote bus stand shouting
>> > anti-India
>> > > > and
>> > > > Pro-Pakistan slogans and warned Hindus of the area to quit or face
>> > > serious
>> > > > consequences.
>> > > > The protestors had earlier pasted posters in this regard which were
>> > > removed
>> > > > by army as police was subjected to severe stone pelting after they
>> > tried
>> > > to
>> > > > remove the posters.
>> > > > There were also reports that Muslims have given a Poonch Challo call
>> > > which
>> > > > was however not confirmed till the last reports came in.
>> > > > The over all situation in Poonch seems volatile and administration
>> > > crippled
>> > > > while Hindus are facing the brunt and with the start of migration
>> > Poonch
>> > > is
>> > > > actually fast becoming another Kashmir within Jammu.
>> > > > _________________________________________
>> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > > > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > > > subscribe in the subject header.
>> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ------------------------------
>> > > >
>> > > > Message: 3
>> > > > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
>> > > > From: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
>> > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 15 Hindu families migrate from Dhalera to
>> > > >        Poonch
>> > > > To: Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>,  sarai list
>> > > >        <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > > > Message-ID: <956827.12997.qm at web90402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> > > >
>> > > > Dear Aditya,
>> > > >
>> > > > You must understand that our Media, Politicians, Law, Human Rights,
>> and
>> > > > Secularism all mean that Hindus are bull shits, and they must be
>> > removed.
>> > > > So, it is happening and it will happen. There is no option - we
>> Hindus
>> > > will
>> > > > have to fight for our survival ourselves... No one is going to come
>> for
>> > > > us...
>> > > > At the same time, we have to remember that while we fight, we will
>> be
>> > > told
>> > > > terrorists... People who bomb the country are people of GOD, and
>> people
>> > > who
>> > > > oppose it are terrorists...
>> > > > So, be prepared or prepare your children to either bear a beard
>> without
>> > a
>> > > > moustache and cover your females with black veil... or make them
>> Arjun
>> > to
>> > > > fight the Adharma...
>> > > >
>> > > > You know a secret...
>> > > > Which is the sacred day of Muslims - Friday - Shukrawar...
>> > > > Who was the Guru of Rakshasas (Adharma) - Shukracharya..
>> > > > You can understand rest of the things....
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message ----
>> > > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
>> > > > To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:12:14 PM
>> > > > Subject: [Reader-list] 15 Hindu families migrate from Dhalera to
>> Poonch
>> > > >
>> > > >  *   15 Hindu families migrate from Dhalera to Poonch
>> > > > <http://www.theshadow.in/theshadow/newsdet.aspx?q=4271>  Hindus
>> > > > of Surankote asked to quit or face
>> > > > consequences*<http://www.theshadow.in/theshadow/newsdet.aspx?q=4271
>> >
>> > > >     8/26/2008 2:37:15 AMLink -
>> > > > http://www.theshadow.in/theshadow/newsdet.aspx?4271
>> > > >
>> > > > King C Bharati
>> > > > Jammu, Aug 25: The worst fears have come true and Poonch has started
>> > its
>> > > > process of becoming another Kashmir with 15 families of Hindus
>> > migrating
>> > > > from Dhalera and Bhench area of Poonch where 2 shops and one house
>> > > > belonging
>> > > > to Pammy Bali were burnt late last night while Hindus in Surankote
>> have
>> > > > been
>> > > > asked to quit or face the consequences.
>> > > > Most of the families residing in Dhalera and Bhench area have
>> finally
>> > > > migrated to Poonch late last night after huge crowds of Muslims
>> > attacked
>> > > > them and started burning their houses even as administration
>> remained
>> > > > crippled for the fourth consecutive day in Poonch.
>> > > > With the imposition of curfew and army taking over the city the
>> > district
>> > > > administration seems to have gone in deep slumber with little
>> concern
>> > for
>> > > > the crying Hindu population of nearby areas of Poonch where
>> hooligans
>> > are
>> > > > openly burning their shops and house which included some government
>> > > > employees in presence of police.
>> > > > The separatist hooligans are raising pro-Pak slogans and unfurling
>> > > > Pakistani
>> > > > flags with the PDP leaders of the area taking lead in fanning the
>> worst
>> > > > ever
>> > > > communal violence in this border district.
>> > > > The Vohra administration which is busy appeasing the Kashmiris seems
>> to
>> > > > have
>> > > > no time for this remote district even as the local administration
>> has
>> > > > already positioned itself in Hands-up situation.,
>> > > > According to reports emanating from Poonch district besides our
>> > > > correspondent Anibhav Misri's dispatches the Bhench and Dhalera
>> areas
>> > are
>> > > > the worst hit at present with entire Hindu population having
>> migrated
>> > > from
>> > > > both the areas late last night after their shops and houses were
>> burnt.
>> > > > Poonch residents continued their frantic calls to Jammu media
>> seeking
>> > > help
>> > > > and put the number of migrated families to 15.
>> > > > The residents said that the local DSP DR and two Sub-inspectors were
>> > mute
>> > > > spectators during the arson and communal violence yesterday adding
>> the
>> > > > administration seemed hand in glove with the separatist hooligans
>> who
>> > > > continue to raise pro-Azadi, Pro-Pakistan and anti-India slogans
>> > besides
>> > > > unfurling Pakistani flags in the area.
>> > > > Meanwhile reports from Surankote are also disturbing where sources
>> said
>> > > > that
>> > > > around 12000 people assembled in Surankote bus stand shouting
>> > anti-India
>> > > > and
>> > > > Pro-Pakistan slogans and warned Hindus of the area to quit or face
>> > > serious
>> > > > consequences.
>> > > > The protestors had earlier pasted posters in this regard which were
>> > > removed
>> > > > by army as police was subjected to severe stone pelting after they
>> > tried
>> > > to
>> > > > remove the posters.
>> > > > There were also reports that Muslims have given a Poonch Challo call
>> > > which
>> > > > was however not confirmed till the last reports came in.
>> > > > The over all situation in Poonch seems volatile and administration
>> > > crippled
>> > > > while Hindus are facing the brunt and with the start of migration
>> > Poonch
>> > > is
>> > > > actually fast becoming another Kashmir within Jammu.
>> > > > _________________________________________
>> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > > > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > > > subscribe in the subject header.
>> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ------------------------------
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > reader-list mailing list
>> > > > reader-list at sarai.net
>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 61, Issue 127
>> > > > ********************************************
>> > > >
>> > > _________________________________________
>> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > > subscribe in the subject header.
>> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _________________________________________
>> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > > subscribe in the subject header.
>> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> > >
>> > _________________________________________
>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > subscribe in the subject header.
>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>
>> > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in the subject header.
>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>
>> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>
>
>