[Reader-list] Ways of Life and Transgressions
Rahul Asthana
rahul_capri at yahoo.com
Sat Aug 30 20:42:31 IST 2008
Dear Yousuf,
I think the classic liberal stand of reductionist extrapolation,in which one develops certain set of canonical principles and expects them to govern all discourse on a certain topic, is not necessarily philosophically incorrect from their point of view,but insufficient and improper if we want to live in a tolerant liberal society.I will try to elaborate:
The point is not that Hussein as a Muslim can paint Hindu deities,nude or otherwise or whether his intention was to insult,or not.The point is also not that the his paintings can be artistic and break new grounds of expression etc.Neither is it the point that he should have the freedom of expression to paint whatever he wants.The point is also not that the people who attacked him were wrong.
The point that I have been trying to make is that all the above things are true;but still a painting that he has made can be offensive to many people.Now,the classic reductionist line here is that,offense is subjective.Obviously,we can't be bothered about every person who takes offense at any random stuff, can we?To that I would say, using our own personal judgment,depending upon our interactions with people, we can make out most of the times if something is truly offensive to a large group of people or not.If we can't,we should talk to people.IMHO,I don't think I should take the easy way out of hiding behind the principles of freedom of expression and visual metaphors etc.We should always support freedom of expression,but if we can surmise that a particular act of art was done,when it was probably apparent that it would hurt the sensibilities of a large group of people,we should call it for "bad taste".
If we have respect for and engage in dialog with the moderates of groups we may not have to deal with the extremists.
Dear Shuddha,
I think you mentioned earlier how religious people offend the sensitivities of atheists.Could you please elaborate?
Thanks
Rahul
--- On Sat, 8/30/08, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
> From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Ways of Life and Transgressions
> To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com
> Cc: "Sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 2:44 AM
> Dear Yousuf, dear all,
>
> thank you very much, Yousuf for your mail. I really
> appreciate your
> point of drawing attention to the available vocabularies of
> visual
> representation and the way in which they determine or
> influence the
> universe of visual repsesentatiation, if only to underline
> the fact
> that no visual artist is ever divorced from the context tat
> they are
> born into. I have nowhere written about why Husain does
> not choose
> to represent themes from the Islamic canon, and I totally
> agree with
> you that he does not do so because they are not available
> to him in
> his cultural miieu,
>
> As for apparently transgressive cases like Husain or Dillu
> Ram
> Kausari, I cannnot see why they should not b celebrated.
> Hindus
> should honour Husain and Muslims should honour Dillu Ram.
> In this way
> they would ensure that acts of 'road crossing' need
> not necessarily
> end in lethal accidents,
>
> warm regards, and hoping for many more road crossings,
>
> Shuddha
>
>
>
>
>
> On 29-Aug-08, at 8:25 PM, Yousuf Saeed wrote:
>
> > Dear Shuddha, others
> > I really appreciate your highlighting of the fact that
> Hussain's
> > intention may not be of insulting the Hindus by
> drawing the deities
> > in the nude or otherwise. I am not a defender of
> Hussain, but would
> > like to put across a few points. Many people (on this
> list and
> > elsewhere) have pointed out that Hussain never drew
> any Muslim
> > character (such as the Prophet) in this manner, and
> therefore his
> > intention must be to insult the Hindus. They also say
> that such an
> > act by any artist in a Muslim country (like Saudi
> Arabia) would
> > result in death penalty, and so on. But maybe Hussain
> did not draw
> > an Islamic character in an "immodest"
> posture simply because such
> > an image or icon doesn’t exist in the Islam's
> visual cultural
> > tradition. If he does it, then that would be
> deliberately
> > provocative (although I am not saying it shouldn't
> be done). But he
> > could draw a Hindu deity in the nude because such a
> tradition
> > exists in our Indian visual culture. I doubt if he
> avoids
> > the depiction of Muslim themes because he is scared
> of the
> > Islamists. Maybe he simply can't relate to it as
> an Indian.
> >
> > If I as an artist cannot express my certain feelings
> in the
> > language that has been taught to be me by my parents,
> and I
> > suddenly discover a new language that allows me to
> express that
> > peculiar feeling in a much better way than what my
> mother tongue
> > did, I would be happy to use the new language. There
> are thousands
> > of poets and artists who found a new way of expression
> in a
> > language which every one in their midst had found
> "inferior" – I am
> > talking for example of the tradition of Persian poets
> of South Asia
> > who also wrote verses in Hindi or Hinduvi. While poets
> such as
> > Masud Sa'd Salman, Amir Khusrau, Abdurrahim
> Khane-khana, Ghalib, or
> > Iqbal became famous for their exquisite verse in
> Persian, their
> > heart pours out better in their Hinduvi, Urdu or Braj
> poetry where
> > they can come down to the earth from the lofty royal
> palaces. We
> > often say, "Unki Hindi shayeri mein mitti ki
> khushbu aati hai" (one
> > can smell the earth in their vernacular poetry). And I
> > think Hussain is no different from them. He cannot
> draw an Islamic
> > character in the nude because it's probably not in
> his palette, or
> > doesn't touch his heart. (And we cannot force him
> to do it to
> > become more politically correct).
> >
> > You may say that a lot of semi-pornographic scenes
> have been drawn
> > in Mughal or Persian miniatures, and he could have
> followed that.
> > But that's not the point. Hindu deities are
> flexible enough for us
> > to turn them around the way we wish, to express a
> certain feeling
> > that cannot be expressed any other way. So why not
> appreciate and
> > celebrate that fact. (I know sucha statement from me
> might raise
> > some eyebrows). I maybe a Muslim but I appreciate the
> fact that you
> > can literally play with many Hindu deities. Just the
> other day I
> > heard Pandit Jasraj sing a khayal in which the lyrics
> repeatedly
> > referred to Krishna as a chor (thief). Does that
> insult a Hindu? Or
> > would it insult a Hindu if this khayal was sung by
> Ustad Amir Khan?
> > (Incidentally, a large number of traditional Hindu
> devotional
> > lyrics sung in classical music have reached us via
> Muslim gharana
> > musicians, and much of devotional Hindu visual
> mythology has come
> > to us via patwa artists of Bengal who are
> > all Muslim. Can M.F.Hussain be detached from that
> continuity?)
> > Much of the popular calendar and poster art of 20th
> century showing
> > Hindu deities was drawn by an artist called Hasan Raza
> Raja of
> > Meerut. And the manner in which most Hindu deities are
> visualized
> > today comes from the pioneering work of Raja Ravi
> Varma who was
> > clearly inspired by western style of art where human
> models were
> > used to visualize the gods and goddesses. So, does all
> this insult
> > the Hindus? And what is the "original" Hindu
> way of imagining the
> > deities any way?
> >
> > I liked your quoting from Kausari who is among many
> Hindu poets who
> > have written/announced their emotive affiliation with
> Prophet
> > Mohammad in the same way as say with Krishna. I doubt
> if such
> > actions in the past may have met with much resistance
> (as you have
> > mentioned) – such examples were a norm. There are
> many Hindu poets
> > who have written marsiyas full of pathos for Imam
> Hussain's
> > martyrdom, and many Muslim poets who composed adorable
> songs for
> > Krishna. I don't think it was too hard to cross
> the road in those
> > days. So, why are we busy throwing stones onto each
> other from the
> > two sides of a road? I could imagine that at least an
> online forum
> > like Sarai could act like a subway or a walk-over
> bridge to cross
> > the busy highway. But currently it seems more like a
> road-block.
> > And we are all paying the toll.
> >
> > Yousuf
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Fri, 8/29/08, Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> <shuddha at sarai.net>
> >> Subject: [Reader-list] Ways of Life and
> Transgressions
> >> To: "Sarai list"
> <reader-list at sarai.net>
> >> Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 1:31 PM
> >> Dear All,
> >>
> >> I have been intrigued by the exchange on the list
> of late
> >> that has
> >> preferred to jettison the term 'religion'
> and
> >> prefer in its stead the
> >> euphimistic phrase - 'ways of life'. I am
> referring
> >> to the exchange
> >> between Chanchal Malviya and Jeebesh Bagchi,
> arising out of
> >> the
> >> heated correspondence on the disruption of a small
> >> exhibition devoted
> >> to M.F.Husain.
> >>
> >> i am quite convinced that the term
> 'religion'
> >> which derives from the
> >> latin root of the word religio (bond) and religare
> (the
> >> verb form of
> >> 'to bind') remains for me a useful word to
> name the
> >> act of committing
> >> oneself in any form. In this sense, atheists and
> agnostics
> >> are just
> >> as religious (in their commitment to doubt) as are
> those
> >> blessed with
> >> faith. I would describe my religious commitment as
> >> agnosticism - a
> >> commitment to doubt everything, (including the
> value of
> >> doubt) and a
> >> certainty that we cannot speak certainly of
> anything at
> >> all, because
> >> there are always counterfactuals, and hitherto
> unimagined,
> >> or unknown
> >> possibilities, that goad us on to yet newer
> possibilities,
> >> or to
> >> return to some very old ones. This is just to say
> that it
> >> would be a
> >> mistake to assume, as is often done with some
> arrogance on
> >> the part
> >> of the more pronouncedly 'faithful', that
> atheists
> >> and agnostics have
> >> no 'spiritual' quests. They do, and they
> dont, just
> >> as those who are
> >> ostentatiously 'religious' do, and dont,
> or do only
> >> in as much as it
> >> allows them to burn a few churches as they go
> questing. If
> >> Hindu
> >> fundamentalists have chosen to renounce the ties
> that bind
> >> (religio)
> >> them to life, who would I be to object, because, I
> am not a
> >> Hindu.
> >> But I have no quarrel with the term 'ways of
> life'.
> >> The more words we
> >> have, the better.
> >>
> >> This discussion arose out of a rage felt by some
> that a
> >> group of
> >> zealots had broken and disrupted an exhibition
> that
> >> featured some
> >> images of and by Husain, and the counter rage felt
> by
> >> others that the
> >> zealots had no right to be criticised because they
> were
> >> acting to
> >> protect the honour of the Hindu deities that they
> felt
> >> Husain had
> >> insulted.
> >>
> >> The second case is as follows - what right has
> Husain, a
> >> Muslim to
> >> insult Hindu deities by portraying them in a
> manner that is
> >> offensive
> >> to the sentiments of many Hindus. (Husain's
> >> motivations, or the
> >> aesthetic merit of his images are not the issue
> here, what
> >> is at
> >> issue is the insult seen to have occurred when a
> non-Hindu
> >> 'touches'
> >> a sacred Hindu icon with his 'insulting'
> >> imagination. Those so
> >> enraged, also throw the following challenge, has
> the
> >> opposite ever
> >> occurred?
> >>
> >> I am not here to make a case for Husain. (As I
> have said
> >> before I do
> >> not have a very high opinion of his work as an
> artist). I
> >> am here to
> >> make a case for what is considered to be
> transgression. No
> >> one can be
> >> sure when they have transgressed. Because
> transgression can
> >> be seen
> >> to occur even when the motives of the person
> concerned are
> >> far from
> >> transgression. Husain can say in his defence, and
> indeed
> >> has on
> >> occasion said that his paintings are an index of
> his
> >> appreciation of
> >> Indic culture and its diversity of expressions, of
> his
> >> closeness
> >> (since early childhood) to forms of iconic imagery
> in
> >> popular Hinduism.
> >>
> >> Here his intent is clearly not to insult, on the
> contrary,
> >> it is to
> >> declare his appreciation for the beauty of the
> iconography
> >> of popular
> >> Hinduism, a charge for which he would be equally
> hated by
> >> both Hindu
> >> as well as Muslim fundamentalists.
> >>
> >> It has not been noticed that no Muslim
> fundamentalist or
> >> even Muslim
> >> religious figure has come out in defence of
> Husain. They
> >> are in fact
> >> in tacit agreement with their Hindu peers. A
> Muslim making
> >> images,
> >> and that too of Hindu goddesses, because he is
> drawn to
> >> them, can
> >> only be seen as blasphemy in their eyes. On this,
> like on
> >> so many
> >> other issues, Hindu and Muslim fundamentalists are
> in total
> >> agreement.
> >>
> >> Let me come now to an interesting counterfactual
> argument.
> >> I refer to
> >> the life an work of a little known late nineteenth
> century
> >> and early
> >> twentieth century Urdu poet of Delhi called Dillu
> Ram
> >> Kausari. Now as
> >> his name suggests, Dillu Ram was a Hindu. The
> trouble is,
> >> throughout
> >> his life he composed deliriously passionate
> elegies
> >> (na'at) to the
> >> Prophet Muhammad.
> >>
> >> One of his quatrains went as follows
> >>
> >> Kuch ‘ishq e Muhammad mein nahin shart e
> Musulman!
> >> Hai Kausari Hindu bhii talabgaar e Muhammad!
> >> Allah re! kyaa raunaq e bazaar e Muhammad
> >> Ke Ma’bood e Jahan bhi hai kharidaar e Muhammad!
> >>
> >> Being a Muslim is not a condition for loving
> Muhammad!
> >> Kausari, the Hindu, is also a seeker of Muhammad!
> >> By Allah! How delightful is the bazaar of Muhammad
> >> For the Lord of the Worlds is also a buyer of
> Muhammad!
> >>
> >> This kind of sentiment shocked both Hindus and
> Muslims.
> >> Hindus,
> >> because how could a Hindu sing what amounted to
> love songs
> >> to a
> >> Muslim prophet, and Muslims, for the same reason.
> Both felt
> >> slighted
> >> and insulted by the transgressive way in which the
> >> imagination of the
> >> poet had 'touched' the body of what was
> sacred for
> >> one, and not, for
> >> the other.
> >>
> >> Another poem, which proved to be even more
> controversial,
> >> went like
> >> this -
> >>
> >> Rahmatulilalamin kay Hashar mein maana’ khulay
> >> Khalq saari Shaafa e Roz e Jaza kay saath hai
> >> Laykay Dillu Raam ko jannat mein jab Hazrat gaye
> >> Ma’loom huwa kay Hindu bhi Mahboob e Khuda kay
> saath hai!
> >>
> >> The meaning of “Mercy unto the Worlds” became
> apparent
> >> on Judgement Day:
> >> The whole creation is with the Intercessor of The
> Day of
> >> Acquittal
> >> When the Prophet took Dillu Ram with him into
> Paradise
> >> It was known that this Hindu too is with the
> Beloved of
> >> God!
> >>
> >> This poem, especially scandalized Muslim
> orthodoxy, because
> >> it dared
> >> to suggest that the prophet himself would
> intercede on
> >> behalf of an
> >> unbeliever on the day of judgement.
> >>
> >> It is interesting to note that Dillu Ram never
> became a
> >> Muslim, at
> >> least not in his lifetime. An article in the
> interesting
> >> web portal
> >> Chowk http://www.chowk.com/articles/12692 by one
> Asif
> >> Naqshbandi says
> >>
> >> "It is also said that Dillu Ram, delirious
> with his
> >> love, would
> >> sometimes stand in the middle of the bazaar in
> Delhi, put
> >> chains
> >> around his neck and feet and shout at the top of
> his voice
> >> to all
> >> passers-by, “Muhammad! Muhammad! Muhammad! Yes!
> Muhammad
> >> is the
> >> Beloved of God! Muhammad is the first and only
> Beloved of
> >> God! If God
> >> loves you, He loves you because of His Beloved!”
> Some
> >> people even
> >> stoned him and he would often come home covered in
> blood
> >> but he was
> >> totally lost in his love of the Prophet (peace and
> >> blessings be upon
> >> him!)"
> >>
> >> There is an apocryphal story of how on his
> deathbed Dillu
> >> Ram Kausari
> >> had a vision of the Prophet himself, who came to
> him, and
> >> that he
> >> read the Kalima with him. But as this vision is
> reported to
> >> have
> >> appeared only to him, as he lay dying, and as he
> is no
> >> longer with us
> >> to either confirm or deny this deathbed
> conversion, we can
> >> only
> >> surmise that it was a generous, but somewhat
> disingenuous
> >> method of
> >> having Dillu Ram's somewhat unorthodox Muslim
> >> apologists claim him
> >> for themselves.
> >>
> >> As far as we are concerned, Dillu Ram Kausari,
> caused grave
> >> offence,
> >> by his love for the Prophet, both to Hindu as well
> as to
> >> Muslim
> >> zealots, as long as he lived.
> >>
> >> If, the things we call religions are 'ways of
> life'
> >> then we can
> >> always determine for ourselves whether we want to
> walk on a
> >> one way
> >> street that runs into a dead end, or to cross many
> paths,
> >> walking
> >> down one way, for one purpose, down another way
> for
> >> another, and
> >> sometimes just standing in between paths, figuring
> out our
> >> journey,
> >> as we go about our lives.
> >>
> >> I find cases like Husain and Dillu Ram Kausari
> interesting
> >> not
> >> because of what they paint of what they say, but
> because
> >> they seem to
> >> cause such prolonged traffic jams on the 'ways
> of
> >> life'. And all they
> >> were doing was crossing the road.
> >>
> >> thanks and regards,
> >>
> >> Shuddha
> >>
> >> -----
> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> >>
> >> _________________________________________
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> the city.
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> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________
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> city.
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>
> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> The Sarai Programme at CSDS
> Raqs Media Collective
> shuddha at sarai.net
> www.sarai.net
> www.raqsmediacollective.net
>
>
> _________________________________________
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