[Reader-list] Ways of Life and Transgressions
Rahul Asthana
rahul_capri at yahoo.com
Sun Aug 31 23:54:11 IST 2008
Yousuf,
I think i failed in getting my point across.No amount of "education" would make Hussein's art appreciated by some,and those who are offended by Hussein's art are no less "educated" than you or me.
Unless you get rid of your condescension about educating people about what they should or shouldn't get offended by,any discussion about solution to conflicts like this is a non-starter.
I am going to make one last try though.
Say there are two groups A and B,with different value systems.A is offended by an act X and B is not,apparently due to their different value systems. B encourages X and this increases tensions in a society where A and B live together.Lets see what are the possible solutions.
1.Both A and B tell each other to go take a hike and they would do according to how they feel fit.
2.Both A and B are sure that their value systems are superior and they try to convert each other to their own view points through dialog etc.
3.Both A and B recognize that there are irreconcilable differences in their world views.They also recognize that they would respect the differences and try to honor them to the extent possible while also trying to achieve their own goals through whatever means possible.
If liberal fanatics like you will keep on engaging in #2,(which in my opinion is even worse than #1 because #1 does not involve condescension) that you are doing right now,you will always enable religious fanatics from the other side who will try to convert you to their view point.Why is their stand less valid than yours?
If you engage in #3 ,you will enable moderates from the other side who will listen to you if you listen to them.
The big leap of understanding that you need to make is that there can be two internally consistent value systems which will lead to opposing positions on many issues,and both these value systems are equally valid.
Regards
Rahul
--- On Sun, 8/31/08, Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Ways of Life and Transgressions
> To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" <shuddha at sarai.net>, rahul_capri at yahoo.com
> Cc: "Sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Sunday, August 31, 2008, 9:40 AM
> When I mention education, I primarily include media in it.
> But the media is careless and works only on the diktats of
> industry and politicians. So the prime responsibility (of
> making sure that their art is appreciated) falls on the arts
> fraternity itself. At least until we find a better solution.
>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Rahul Asthana
> <rahul_capri at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Ways of Life and
> Transgressions
> > To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta"
> <shuddha at sarai.net>, ysaeed7 at yahoo.com
> > Cc: "Sarai list"
> <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 9:58 PM
> > "They have not been educated to appreciate the
> nuances
> > of the medium or the message."
> > Yousuf, I am sorry but that's condescending.By the
> same
> > token a religious person can say that the artist has
> not
> > been taught the nuances of religious sensibilities.My
> point
> > is that if two groups having different values have to
> > coexist in a society,they have to be tolerant towards
> each
> > other.
> > I do not advocate any limit to the freedom of
> > expression,but there should not be complete
> callousness
> > towards the feelings of groups.Painters like Hussein
> and
> > other heretics would always keep producing works that
> would
> > offend,and perhaps thats necessary too;but if some of
> the
> > people in the media,and I do not mean the media which
> > actually represents these groups, can understand and
> voice
> > their feelings,then emotions would probably not flare
> up to
> > that extent.
> > That is the middle way.
> >
> >
> > --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > From: Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Ways of Life and
> > Transgressions
> > > To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta"
> > <shuddha at sarai.net>, rahul_capri at yahoo.com
> > > Cc: "Sarai list"
> > <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 9:31 PM
> > > Dear Rahul
> > > I had difficulty following your first sentence
> (and a
> > few
> > > others), but yes, to put it in simple language,
> people
> > have
> > > been offended by Hussain's paintings, and
> they are
> > not
> > > always at fault. They have not been educated to
> > appreciate
> > > the nuances of the medium or the message. And the
> art
> > > fraternity doesn't have the urge to go to the
> > people and
> > > explain what they do and why they do. The
> politician
> > of
> > > course is too happy to cash in on the ignorance
> of the
> > > public.
> > >
> > > Incidentally, countless provocative/blasphemous
> art or
> > > statements have been made in the past but not all
> of
> > them
> > > led to a public outcry. Almost all known cases
> where a
> > piece
> > > of art/literature has led to violence, are those
> where
> > > somebody (or some political party) used them to
> spread
> > the
> > > flames. In most cases, the protesters haven't
> seen
> > or
> > > read what they have been protesting against.
> > >
> > > So, should the artists make such provocative
> works
> > only for
> > > themselves or their closest friends, and never
> allow
> > them to
> > > go public. Or should they (and their
> institutions)
> > create an
> > > atmosphere of awareness where the public can
> > appreciate
> > > their art and not tear it apart? I don't find
> a
> > third
> > > alternative.
> > >
> > > Yousuf
> > >
> > > --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Rahul Asthana
> > > <rahul_capri at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Rahul Asthana
> <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Ways of Life and
> > > Transgressions
> > > > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com, "Shuddhabrata
> > > Sengupta" <shuddha at sarai.net>
> > > > Cc: "Sarai list"
> > > <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > > Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 8:42 PM
> > > > Dear Yousuf,
> > > >
> > > > I think the classic liberal stand of
> reductionist
> > > > extrapolation,in which one develops certain
> set
> > of
> > > canonical
> > > > principles and expects them to govern all
> > discourse on
> > > a
> > > > certain topic, is not necessarily
> philosophically
> > > incorrect
> > > > from their point of view,but insufficient
> and
> > improper
> > > if we
> > > > want to live in a tolerant liberal society.I
> will
> > try
> > > to
> > > > elaborate:
> > > > The point is not that Hussein as a Muslim
> can
> > paint
> > > Hindu
> > > > deities,nude or otherwise or whether his
> > intention was
> > > to
> > > > insult,or not.The point is also not that the
> his
> > > paintings
> > > > can be artistic and break new grounds of
> > expression
> > > > etc.Neither is it the point that he should
> have
> > the
> > > freedom
> > > > of expression to paint whatever he wants.The
> > point is
> > > also
> > > > not that the people who attacked him were
> wrong.
> > > >
> > > > The point that I have been trying to make is
> that
> > all
> > > the
> > > > above things are true;but still a painting
> that
> > he has
> > > made
> > > > can be offensive to many people.Now,the
> classic
> > > reductionist
> > > > line here is that,offense is
> > subjective.Obviously,we
> > > > can't be bothered about every person who
> > takes
> > > offense
> > > > at any random stuff, can we?To that I would
> say,
> > using
> > > our
> > > > own personal judgment,depending upon our
> > interactions
> > > with
> > > > people, we can make out most of the times
> if
> > > something is
> > > > truly offensive to a large group of people
> or
> > not.If
> > > we
> > > > can't,we should talk to people.IMHO,I
> > don't
> > > think I
> > > > should take the easy way out of hiding
> behind the
> > > principles
> > > > of freedom of expression and visual
> metaphors
> > etc.We
> > > should
> > > > always support freedom of expression,but if
> we
> > can
> > > surmise
> > > > that a particular act of art was done,when
> it was
> > > probably
> > > > apparent that it would hurt the
> sensibilities of
> > a
> > > large
> > > > group of people,we should call it for
> "bad
> > > taste".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If we have respect for and engage in dialog
> with
> > the
> > > > moderates of groups we may not have to deal
> with
> > the
> > > > extremists.
> > > >
> > > > Dear Shuddha,
> > > >
> > > > I think you mentioned earlier how religious
> > people
> > > offend
> > > > the sensitivities of atheists.Could you
> please
> > > elaborate?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Rahul
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> > > > <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> > > <shuddha at sarai.net>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Ways of Life
> and
> > > > Transgressions
> > > > > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com
> > > > > Cc: "Sarai list"
> > > > <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > > > Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 2:44
> AM
> > > > > Dear Yousuf, dear all,
> > > > >
> > > > > thank you very much, Yousuf for your
> mail. I
> > > really
> > > > > appreciate your
> > > > > point of drawing attention to the
> available
> > > > vocabularies of
> > > > > visual
> > > > > representation and the way in which
> they
> > > determine or
> > > > > influence the
> > > > > universe of visual repsesentatiation,
> if
> > only to
> > > > underline
> > > > > the fact
> > > > > that no visual artist is ever divorced
> from
> > the
> > > > context tat
> > > > > they are
> > > > > born into. I have nowhere written
> about why
> > > Husain
> > > > does
> > > > > not choose
> > > > > to represent themes from the Islamic
> canon,
> > and I
> > > > totally
> > > > > agree with
> > > > > you that he does not do so because they
> are
> > not
> > > > available
> > > > > to him in
> > > > > his cultural miieu,
> > > > >
> > > > > As for apparently transgressive cases
> like
> > > Husain or
> > > > Dillu
> > > > > Ram
> > > > > Kausari, I cannnot see why they should
> not b
> > > > celebrated.
> > > > > Hindus
> > > > > should honour Husain and Muslims should
> > honour
> > > Dillu
> > > > Ram.
> > > > > In this way
> > > > > they would ensure that acts of
> 'road
> > > crossing'
> > > > need
> > > > > not necessarily
> > > > > end in lethal accidents,
> > > > >
> > > > > warm regards, and hoping for many more
> road
> > > crossings,
> > > > >
> > > > > Shuddha
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 29-Aug-08, at 8:25 PM, Yousuf Saeed
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Shuddha, others
> > > > > > I really appreciate your
> highlighting
> > of the
> > > fact
> > > > that
> > > > > Hussain's
> > > > > > intention may not be of insulting
> the
> > Hindus
> > > by
> > > > > drawing the deities
> > > > > > in the nude or otherwise. I am not
> a
> > > defender of
> > > > > Hussain, but would
> > > > > > like to put across a few points.
> Many
> > people
> > > (on
> > > > this
> > > > > list and
> > > > > > elsewhere) have pointed out that
> > Hussain
> > > never
> > > > drew
> > > > > any Muslim
> > > > > > character (such as the Prophet) in
> this
> > > manner,
> > > > and
> > > > > therefore his
> > > > > > intention must be to insult the
> Hindus.
> > They
> > > also
> > > > say
> > > > > that such an
> > > > > > act by any artist in a Muslim
> country
> > (like
> > > Saudi
> > > > > Arabia) would
> > > > > > result in death penalty, and so
> on. But
> > > maybe
> > > > Hussain
> > > > > did not draw
> > > > > > an Islamic character in an
> > > "immodest"
> > > > > posture simply because such
> > > > > > an image or icon doesn’t exist
> in the
> > > > Islam's
> > > > > visual cultural
> > > > > > tradition. If he does it, then
> that
> > would be
> > > > > deliberately
> > > > > > provocative (although I am not
> saying
> > it
> > > > shouldn't
> > > > > be done). But he
> > > > > > could draw a Hindu deity in the
> nude
> > because
> > > such
> > > > a
> > > > > tradition
> > > > > > exists in our Indian visual
> culture. I
> > doubt
> > > if
> > > > he
> > > > > avoids
> > > > > > the depiction of Muslim themes
> because
> > he
> > > is
> > > > scared
> > > > > of the
> > > > > > Islamists. Maybe he simply
> can't
> > relate
> > > to it
> > > > as
> > > > > an Indian.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I as an artist cannot express
> my
> > certain
> > > > feelings
> > > > > in the
> > > > > > language that has been taught to
> be me
> > by my
> > > > parents,
> > > > > and I
> > > > > > suddenly discover a new language
> that
> > allows
> > > me
> > > > to
> > > > > express that
> > > > > > peculiar feeling in a much better
> way
> > than
> > > what
> > > > my
> > > > > mother tongue
> > > > > > did, I would be happy to use the
> new
> > > language.
> > > > There
> > > > > are thousands
> > > > > > of poets and artists who found a
> new
> > way of
> > > > expression
> > > > > in a
> > > > > > language which every one in their
> midst
> > had
> > > found
> > > > > "inferior" – I am
> > > > > > talking for example of the
> tradition of
> > > Persian
> > > > poets
> > > > > of South Asia
> > > > > > who also wrote verses in Hindi or
> > Hinduvi.
> > > While
> > > > poets
> > > > > such as
> > > > > > Masud Sa'd Salman, Amir
> Khusrau,
> > > Abdurrahim
> > > > > Khane-khana, Ghalib, or
> > > > > > Iqbal became famous for their
> exquisite
> > > verse in
> > > > > Persian, their
> > > > > > heart pours out better in their
> > Hinduvi,
> > > Urdu or
> > > > Braj
> > > > > poetry where
> > > > > > they can come down to the earth
> from
> > the
> > > lofty
> > > > royal
> > > > > palaces. We
> > > > > > often say, "Unki Hindi
> shayeri
> > mein
> > > mitti ki
> > > > > khushbu aati hai" (one
> > > > > > can smell the earth in their
> vernacular
> > > poetry).
> > > > And I
> > > > > > think Hussain is no different
> from
> > them. He
> > > > cannot
> > > > > draw an Islamic
> > > > > > character in the nude because
> it's
> > > probably
> > > > not in
> > > > > his palette, or
> > > > > > doesn't touch his heart. (And
> we
> > cannot
> > > force
> > > > him
> > > > > to do it to
> > > > > > become more politically correct).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You may say that a lot of
> > semi-pornographic
> > > > scenes
> > > > > have been drawn
> > > > > > in Mughal or Persian miniatures,
> and he
> > > could
> > > > have
> > > > > followed that.
> > > > > > But that's not the point.
> Hindu
> > deities
> > > are
> > > > > flexible enough for us
> > > > > > to turn them around the way we
> wish, to
> > > express a
> > > > > certain feeling
> > > > > > that cannot be expressed any other
> way.
> > So
> > > why
> > > > not
> > > > > appreciate and
> > > > > > celebrate that fact. (I know such
> a
> > > statement
> > > > from me
> > > > > might raise
> > > > > > some eyebrows). I maybe a Muslim
> but I
> > > appreciate
> > > > the
> > > > > fact that you
> > > > > > can literally play with many Hindu
> > deities.
> > > Just
> > > > the
> > > > > other day I
> > > > > > heard Pandit Jasraj sing a khayal
> in
> > which
> > > the
> > > > lyrics
> > > > > repeatedly
> > > > > > referred to Krishna as a chor
> (thief).
> > Does
> > > that
> > > > > insult a Hindu? Or
> > > > > > would it insult a Hindu if this
> khayal
> > was
> > > sung
> > > > by
> > > > > Ustad Amir Khan?
> > > > > > (Incidentally, a large number of
> > traditional
> > > > Hindu
> > > > > devotional
> > > > > > lyrics sung in classical music
> have
> > reached
> > > us
> > > > via
> > > > > Muslim gharana
> > > > > > musicians, and much of devotional
> Hindu
> > > visual
> > > > > mythology has come
> > > > > > to us via patwa artists of Bengal
> who
> > are
> > > > > > all Muslim. Can M.F.Hussain be
> > detached
> > > from
> > > > that
> > > > > continuity?)
> > > > > > Much of the popular calendar and
> poster
> > art
> > > of
> > > > 20th
> > > > > century showing
> > > > > > Hindu deities was drawn by an
> artist
> > called
> > > Hasan
> > > > Raza
> > > > > Raja of
> > > > > > Meerut. And the manner in which
> most
> > Hindu
> > > > deities are
> > > > > visualized
> > > > > > today comes from the pioneering
> work of
> > Raja
> > > Ravi
> > > > > Varma who was
> > > > > > clearly inspired by western style
> of
> > art
> > > where
> > > > human
> > > > > models were
> > > > > > used to visualize the gods and
> > goddesses.
> > > So,
> > > > does all
> > > > > this insult
> > > > > > the Hindus? And what is the
> > > "original"
> > > > Hindu
> > > > > way of imagining the
> > > > > > deities any way?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I liked your quoting from Kausari
> who
> > is
> > > among
> > > > many
> > > > > Hindu poets who
> > > > > > have written/announced their
> emotive
> > > affiliation
> > > > with
> > > > > Prophet
> > > > > > Mohammad in the same way as say
> with
> > > Krishna. I
> > > > doubt
> > > > > if such
> > > > > > actions in the past may have met
> with
> > much
> > > > resistance
> > > > > (as you have
> > > > > > mentioned) – such examples were
> a
> > norm.
> > > There
> > > > are
> > > > > many Hindu poets
> > > > > > who have written marsiyas full of
> > pathos for
> > > Imam
> > > > > Hussain's
> > > > > > martyrdom, and many Muslim poets
> who
> > > composed
> > > > adorable
> > > > > songs for
> > > > > > Krishna. I don't think it was
> too
> > hard
> > > to
> > > > cross
> > > > > the road in those
> > > > > > days. So, why are we busy throwing
> > stones
> > > onto
> > > > each
> > > > > other from the
> > > > > > two sides of a road? I could
> imagine
> > that at
> > > > least an
> > > > > online forum
> > > > > > like Sarai could act like a subway
> or a
> > > walk-over
> > > > > bridge to cross
> > > > > > the busy highway. But currently it
> > seems
> > > more
> > > > like a
> > > > > road-block.
> > > > > > And we are all paying the toll.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yousuf
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/29/08, Shuddhabrata
> > Sengupta
> > > > > <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> > > > > <shuddha at sarai.net>
> > > > > >> Subject: [Reader-list] Ways of
> Life
> > and
> > > > > Transgressions
> > > > > >> To: "Sarai list"
> > > > > <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > > > >> Date: Friday, August 29, 2008,
> 1:31
> > PM
> > > > > >> Dear All,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I have been intrigued by the
> > exchange on
> > > the
> > > > list
> > > > > of late
> > > > > >> that has
> > > > > >> preferred to jettison the term
> > > > 'religion'
> > > > > and
> > > > > >> prefer in its stead the
> > > > > >> euphimistic phrase - 'ways
> of
> > > life'.
> > > > I am
> > > > > referring
> > > > > >> to the exchange
> > > > > >> between Chanchal Malviya and
> > Jeebesh
> > > Bagchi,
> > > > > arising out of
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> heated correspondence on the
> > disruption
> > > of a
> > > > small
> > > > > >> exhibition devoted
> > > > > >> to M.F.Husain.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> i am quite convinced that the
> term
> > > > > 'religion'
> > > > > >> which derives from the
> > > > > >> latin root of the word religio
> > (bond)
> > > and
> > > > religare
> > > > > (the
> > > > > >> verb form of
> > > > > >> 'to bind') remains for
> me a
> > > useful
> > > > word to
> > > > > name the
> > > > > >> act of committing
> > > > > >> oneself in any form. In this
> sense,
> > > atheists
> > > > and
> > > > > agnostics
> > > > > >> are just
> > > > > >> as religious (in their
> commitment
> > to
> > > doubt)
> > > > as are
> > > > > those
> > > > > >> blessed with
> > > > > >> faith. I would describe my
> > religious
> > > > commitment as
> > > > > >> agnosticism - a
> > > > > >> commitment to doubt
> everything,
> > > (including
> > > > the
> > > > > value of
> > > > > >> doubt) and a
> > > > > >> certainty that we cannot speak
> > certainly
> > > of
> > > > > anything at
> > > > > >> all, because
> > > > > >> there are always
> counterfactuals,
> > and
> > > > hitherto
> > > > > unimagined,
> > > > > >> or unknown
> > > > > >> possibilities, that goad us on
> to
> > yet
> > > newer
> > > > > possibilities,
> > > > > >> or to
> > > > > >> return to some very old ones.
> This
> > is
> > > just to
> > > > say
> > > > > that it
> > > > > >> would be a
> > > > > >> mistake to assume, as is often
> done
> > with
> > > some
> > > > > arrogance on
> > > > > >> the part
> > > > > >> of the more pronouncedly
> > > 'faithful',
> > > > that
> > > > > atheists
> > > > > >> and agnostics have
> > > > > >> no 'spiritual' quests.
> They
> > do,
> > > and
> > > > they
> > > > > dont, just
> > > > > >> as those who are
> > > > > >> ostentatiously
> 'religious'
> > do,
> > > and
> > > > dont,
> > > > > or do only
> > > > > >> in as much as it
> > > > > >> allows them to burn a few
> churches
> > as
> > > they go
> > > > > questing. If
> > > > > >> Hindu
> > > > > >> fundamentalists have chosen to
> > renounce
> > > the
> > > > ties
> > > > > that bind
> > > > > >> (religio)
> > > > > >> them to life, who would I be
> to
> > object,
> > > > because, I
> > > > > am not a
> > > > > >> Hindu.
> > > > > >> But I have no quarrel with the
> term
> > > 'ways
> > > > of
> > > > > life'.
> > > > > >> The more words we
> > > > > >> have, the better.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> This discussion arose out of a
> rage
> > felt
> > > by
> > > > some
> > > > > that a
> > > > > >> group of
> > > > > >> zealots had broken and
> disrupted an
> > > > exhibition
> > > > > that
> > > > > >> featured some
> > > > > >> images of and by Husain, and
> the
> > counter
> > > rage
> > > > felt
> > > > > by
> > > > > >> others that the
> > > > > >> zealots had no right to be
> > criticised
> > > because
> > > > they
> > > > > were
> > > > > >> acting to
> > > > > >> protect the honour of the
> Hindu
> > deities
> > > that
> > > > they
> > > > > felt
> > > > > >> Husain had
> > > > > >> insulted.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The second case is as follows
> -
> > what
> > > right
> > > > has
> > > > > Husain, a
> > > > > >> Muslim to
> > > > > >> insult Hindu deities by
> portraying
> > them
> > > in a
> > > > > manner that is
> > > > > >> offensive
> > > > > >> to the sentiments of many
> Hindus.
> > > > (Husain's
> > > > > >> motivations, or the
> > > > > >> aesthetic merit of his images
> are
> > not
> > > the
> > > > issue
> > > > > here, what
> > > > > >> is at
> > > > > >> issue is the insult seen to
> have
> > > occurred
> > > > when a
> > > > > non-Hindu
> > > > > >> 'touches'
> > > > > >> a sacred Hindu icon with his
> > > > 'insulting'
> > > > > >> imagination. Those so
> > > > > >> enraged, also throw the
> following
> > > challenge,
> > > > has
> > > > > the
> > > > > >> opposite ever
> > > > > >> occurred?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I am not here to make a case
> for
> > Husain.
> > > (As
> > > > I
> > > > > have said
> > > > > >> before I do
> > > > > >> not have a very high opinion
> of his
> > work
> > > as
> > > > an
> > > > > artist). I
> > > > > >> am here to
> > > > > >> make a case for what is
> considered
> > to be
> > > > > transgression. No
> > > > > >> one can be
> > > > > >> sure when they have
> transgressed.
> > > Because
> > > > > transgression can
> > > > > >> be seen
> > > > > >> to occur even when the motives
> of
> > the
> > > person
> > > > > concerned are
> > > > > >> far from
> > > > > >> transgression. Husain can say
> in
> > his
> > > defence,
> > > > and
> > > > > indeed
> > > > > >> has on
> > > > > >> occasion said that his
> paintings
> > are an
> > > index
> > > > of
> > > > > his
> > > > > >> appreciation of
> > > > > >> Indic culture and its
> diversity of
> > > > expressions, of
> > > > > his
> > > > > >> closeness
> > > > > >> (since early childhood) to
> forms of
> > > iconic
> > > > imagery
> > > > > in
> > > > > >> popular Hinduism.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Here his intent is clearly not
> to
> > > insult, on
> > > > the
> > > > > contrary,
> > > > > >> it is to
> > > > > >> declare his appreciation for
> the
> > beauty
> > > of
> > > > the
> > > > > iconography
> > > > > >> of popular
> > > > > >> Hinduism, a charge for which
> he
> > would be
> > > > equally
> > > > > hated by
> > > > > >> both Hindu
> > > > > >> as well as Muslim
> fundamentalists.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> It has not been noticed that
> no
> > Muslim
> > > > > fundamentalist or
> > > > > >> even Muslim
> > > > > >> religious figure has come out
> in
> > defence
> > > of
> > > > > Husain. They
> > > > > >> are in fact
> > > > > >> in tacit agreement with their
> Hindu
> > > peers. A
> > > > > Muslim making
> > > > > >> images,
> > > > > >> and that too of Hindu
> goddesses,
> > because
> > > he
> > > > is
> > > > > drawn to
> > > > > >> them, can
> > > > > >> only be seen as blasphemy in
> their
> > eyes.
> > > On
> > > > this,
> > > > > like on
> > > > > >> so many
> > > > > >> other issues, Hindu and Muslim
> > > > fundamentalists are
> > > > > in total
> > > > > >> agreement.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Let me come now to an
> interesting
> > > > counterfactual
> > > > > argument.
> > > > > >> I refer to
> > > > > >> the life an work of a little
> known
> > late
> > > > nineteenth
> > > > > century
> > > > > >> and early
> > > > > >> twentieth century Urdu poet of
> > Delhi
> > > called
> > > > Dillu
> > > > > Ram
> > > > > >> Kausari. Now as
> > > > > >> his name suggests, Dillu Ram
> was a
> > > Hindu. The
> > > > > trouble is,
> > > > > >> throughout
> > > > > >> his life he composed
> deliriously
> > > passionate
> > > > > elegies
> > > > > >> (na'at) to the
> > > > > >> Prophet Muhammad.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> One of his quatrains went as
> > follows
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Kuch ‘ishq e Muhammad mein
> nahin
> > shart
> > > e
> > > > > Musulman!
> > > > > >> Hai Kausari Hindu bhii
> talabgaar e
> > > Muhammad!
> > > > > >> Allah re! kyaa raunaq e bazaar
> e
> > > Muhammad
> > > > > >> Ke Ma’bood e Jahan bhi hai
> > kharidaar e
> > > > Muhammad!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Being a Muslim is not a
> condition
> > for
> > > loving
> > > > > Muhammad!
> > > > > >> Kausari, the Hindu, is also a
> > seeker of
> > > > Muhammad!
> > > > > >> By Allah! How delightful is
> the
> > bazaar
> > > of
> > > > Muhammad
> > > > > >> For the Lord of the Worlds is
> also
> > a
> > > buyer of
> > > > > Muhammad!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> This kind of sentiment shocked
> both
> > > Hindus
> > > > and
> > > > > Muslims.
> > > > > >> Hindus,
> > > > > >> because how could a Hindu sing
> what
> > > amounted
> > > > to
> > > > > love songs
> > > > > >> to a
> > > > > >> Muslim prophet, and Muslims,
> for
> > the
> > > same
> > > > reason.
> > > > > Both felt
> > > > > >> slighted
> > > > > >> and insulted by the
> transgressive
> > way in
> > > > which the
> > > > > >> imagination of the
> > > > > >> poet had 'touched' the
> body
> > of
> > > what
> > > > was
> > > > > sacred for
> > > > > >> one, and not, for
> > > > > >> the other.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Another poem, which proved to
> be
> > even
> > > more
> > > > > controversial,
> > > > > >> went like
> > > > > >> this -
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Rahmatulilalamin kay Hashar
> mein
> > > maana’
> > > > khulay
> > > > > >> Khalq saari Shaafa e Roz e
> Jaza kay
> > > saath hai
> > > > > >> Laykay Dillu Raam ko jannat
> mein
> > jab
> > > Hazrat
> > > > gaye
> > > > > >> Ma’loom huwa kay Hindu bhi
> > Mahboob e
> > > Khuda
> > > > kay
> > > > > saath hai!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The meaning of “Mercy unto
> the
> > > Worlds”
> > > > became
> > > > > apparent
> > > > > >> on Judgement Day:
> > > > > >> The whole creation is with the
> > > Intercessor of
> > > > The
> > > > > Day of
> > > > > >> Acquittal
> > > > > >> When the Prophet took Dillu
> Ram
> > with him
> > > into
> > > > > Paradise
> > > > > >> It was known that this Hindu
> too is
> > with
> > > the
> > > > > Beloved of
> > > > > >> God!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> This poem, especially
> scandalized
> > Muslim
> > > > > orthodoxy, because
> > > > > >> it dared
> > > > > >> to suggest that the prophet
> himself
> > > would
> > > > > intercede on
> > > > > >> behalf of an
> > > > > >> unbeliever on the day of
> judgement.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> It is interesting to note that
> > Dillu Ram
> > > > never
> > > > > became a
> > > > > >> Muslim, at
> > > > > >> least not in his lifetime. An
> > article in
> > > the
> > > > > interesting
> > > > > >> web portal
> > > > > >> Chowk
> > > http://www.chowk.com/articles/12692 by
> > > > one
> > > > > Asif
> > > > > >> Naqshbandi says
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "It is also said that
> Dillu
> > Ram,
> > > > delirious
> > > > > with his
> > > > > >> love, would
> > > > > >> sometimes stand in the middle
> of
> > the
> > > bazaar
> > > > in
> > > > > Delhi, put
> > > > > >> chains
> > > > > >> around his neck and feet and
> shout
> > at
> > > the top
> > > > of
> > > > > his voice
> > > > > >> to all
> > > > > >> passers-by, “Muhammad!
> Muhammad!
> > > Muhammad!
> > > > Yes!
> > > > > Muhammad
> > > > > >> is the
> > > > > >> Beloved of God! Muhammad is
> the
> > first
> > > and
> > > > only
> > > > > Beloved of
> > > > > >> God! If God
> > > > > >> loves you, He loves you
> because of
> > His
> > > > Beloved!”
> > > > > Some
> > > > > >> people even
> > > > > >> stoned him and he would often
> come
> > home
> > > > covered in
> > > > > blood
> > > > > >> but he was
> > > > > >> totally lost in his love of
> the
> > Prophet
> > > > (peace and
> > > > > >> blessings be upon
> > > > > >> him!)"
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> There is an apocryphal story
> of how
> > on
> > > his
> > > > > deathbed Dillu
> > > > > >> Ram Kausari
> > > > > >> had a vision of the Prophet
> > himself, who
> > > came
> > > > to
> > > > > him, and
> > > > > >> that he
> > > > > >> read the Kalima with him. But
> as
> > this
> > > vision
> > > > is
> > > > > reported to
> > > > > >> have
> > > > > >> appeared only to him, as he
> lay
> > dying,
> > > and as
> > > > he
> > > > > is no
> > > > > >> longer with us
> > > > > >> to either confirm or deny this
> > deathbed
> > > > > conversion, we can
> > > > > >> only
> > > > > >> surmise that it was a
> generous, but
> > > somewhat
> > > > > disingenuous
> > > > > >> method of
> > > > > >> having Dillu Ram's
> somewhat
> > > unorthodox
> > > > Muslim
> > > > > >> apologists claim him
> > > > > >> for themselves.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> As far as we are concerned,
> Dillu
> > Ram
> > > > Kausari,
> > > > > caused grave
> > > > > >> offence,
> > > > > >> by his love for the Prophet,
> both
> > to
> > > Hindu as
> > > > well
> > > > > asto
> > > > > >> Muslim
> > > > > >> zealots, as long as he lived.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> If, the things we call
> religions
> > are
> > > > 'ways of
> > > > > life'
> > > > > >> then we can
> > > > > >> always determine for ourselves
> > whether
> > > we
> > > > want to
> > > > > walk on a
> > > > > >> one way
> > > > > >> street that runs into a dead
> end,
> > or to
> > > cross
> > > > many
> > > > > paths,
> > > > > >> walking
> > > > > >> down one way, for one purpose,
> down
> > > another
> > > > way
> > > > > for
> > > > > >> another, and
> > > > > >> sometimes just standing in
> between
> > > paths,
> > > > figuring
> > > > > out our
> > > > > >> journey,
> > > > > >> as we go about our lives.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I find cases like Husain and
> Dillu
> > Ram
> > > > Kausari
> > > > > interesting
> > > > > >> not
> > > > > >> because of what they paint of
> what
> > they
> > > say,
> > > > but
> > > > > because
> > > > > >> they seem to
> > > > > >> cause such prolonged traffic
> jams
> > on the
> > > > 'ways
> > > > > of
> > > > > >> life'. And all they
> > > > > >> were doing was crossing the
> road.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> thanks and regards,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Shuddha
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> -----
> > > > > >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > _________________________________________
> > > > > >> reader-list: an open
> discussion
> > list on
> > > media
> > > > and
> > > > > the city.
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> > > > > >> To subscribe: send an email to
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> with
> > > subscribe
> > > > in
> > > > > the subject
> > > > > >> header.
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> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > >
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> > > >
> > >
> >
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > _________________________________________
> > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion
> list on
> > > media and
> > > > the
> > > > > city.
> > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations
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> > > > >
> > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> > > > > The Sarai Programme at CSDS
> > > > > Raqs Media Collective
> > > > > shuddha at sarai.net
> > > > > www.sarai.net
> > > > > www.raqsmediacollective.net
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> _________________________________________
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