[Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN

[kabi cubby sherman]

kshmendra,

I have reread your posting a few times. I think I understand your logic but if I am going up the wrong path, am interested in where I read it incorrectly.

You are saying:
-there are people in india who think this way - such attitudes exist
-because of the attacks, all emotions are heightened - lethal self-igniting cocktail
-in light of that, it was perhaps foolishly (dangerously?) idealistic to have an action about the importance of peace, the uselessness and counter-productivity of war and the oneness of the people of bombay, that included dadar tt as a site because it is on the central line which terminates at vt.

I surmise you didnt go to the urls provided and see the route map of the human chain...... following what I take to be your logic, one of the 2 chains should not have gone past VT, should not have gone up mohammad ali rd - ambedkar rd - sion- because the central line stations follow these roads and that this extremely provocative behaviour of  advocating peace and the oneness of bombay citizens might whip of the emotions of people who think this way and use the trains that terminate at vt. 

are you then saying 
the chain that went up the western side of the city is ok because the western line terminates at churchgate, not vt, therefore those people wont feel provoked?
that in the spirit of we are all together, all mumbaikars, sab ek hai, that the routes should have skipped certain neighborhoods and areas? 
that it is dangerously provocative to advocate for peace on the ground (I assume you think its OK to write articles either print or electronic since they are experienced at a remove)
that the 60,000 people who participated in the human chain, including our part that stretched from dadar tt to hindmata made up of school kids and adults and some spontaneous joinings from the street should not have come out because of the fear of lethal self-igniting cocktails. or the 50+ civil society groups should not have organised the event because it is lethal?
or its ok to come out but not at dadat tt? then its provocative
or is it not ok all along the central line? esp VT station (it went from nariman house, thru colaba, past taj, past cst, past bmc, to metro, to crawford market and up) - it shouldnt have gone past these sites of remembrance because of the provocative message)
it also shouldnt have gone on peddar rd on the western side because people there, one might assume, frequent both the taj and the oberoi? and it shouldnt have started at the oberoi where the staff came out and joined the chain?
you get my point I am sure.

exactly what are you saying? to stay silent? or to say silent in certain areas? or that, knowing there are people like this only, not to be surprised when confronted with this demonising response. in this i agree. I am not surprised.

as I said, these personal anecdotes do continue to happen here in bombay even without human chains, just in the day to day encounters on trains and in public spaces. what I was responding to in my original post was your sentence that there has been no communal demonising. I was pointing out that this isn't true here. but maybe we differ in our definition of communal demonising. maybe you mean actual physical violence or public articulation of that demonisation in the media and in speeches where it is unwrapped and displayed for the consumption of many, instead of in private one-on-one interactions.

and just an aside, that doesnt have direct bearing on what I have written above. I understand the term ladies when labeling things - like ladies room, or ladies car on the trains. but when you write 'lets bring in the 7 ladies' it sounds so condescending. it a diminuative. we are women. 

best
kabi

Meter Down - काली पीली कि कहानी
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blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com





________________________________
From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>; kabi cubby sherman <cubbykabi at yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, 14 December, 2008 6:56:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN


Dear Kabi
 
Let us put aside the Mumbai Terror Attack for the moment.
 
It would be foolish of me or anyone to suggest that there are no Indians who hate Muslims or that there are no Indians who automatically see Indian Muslims as being more loyal to Pakistan than India.
 
It would be equally foolish to think that this is not directly a result of the past history of the sub-continent and indeed to some if not a large extent the behaviour of the Indian Muslims themselves.
 
Does any kind of a reasoning justify viewing the Indian Muslims in this manner? No it does not for the simple reason that Muslims are as much a part of India as anyone else and such evaluations/deductions harm India, even if their harbourers think that they are protecting India's interests. It may be explained but cannot be justified.
 
But such attitudes exist. Now add to them the Mumbai Terror attacks with the actors having been identified as Pakistanis. Pakistani Muslims. 
 
You now have a potentially lethal self-igniting cocktail. But, this Moltov remained doused. 
 
Let us accept that and be thankful to some pro-active steps taken by the Indian Muslims themselves, the careful choice of words by most Indian Politicians including surprisingly the "Hindu" Politicians. This in spite of the hysteria whipped up in the Media (especially video) against Pakistan and to some extent against the Muslims (generalised). How can one forget the idiotic comment of Simi Garewal.
 
Now let us bring in the 7 (9 to 70) ladies at Dadar TT, handing out (presumably 'Peace') leaflets and wearing "jang nahin, aman chahiye" (we want peace, not war) T-shirts.
 
What you were doing had the potential of re-igniting the doused Moltov. That contradicts your own very meaningful  advisory of " let us all be aware of the ruptures, the fissures, the faultlines". It might have been a courageous adherence to ideals sought to be put into practice but the 'terrain' was foolishly chosen.
 
Did you forget that Dadar TT has most of the throughput of trains from CST where quite a few died? Did you forget the public anger against Pakistan which could easily become a throbbing blood-lust of a mob with it's own psyche provoked by your actions?
 
And yet in the passenger flux of quite a few thousands every hour at Dadar TT, inspite of what I would think was extremely provocative behaviour (in the existing atmosphere) only 2 persons contested what you stood for or name-called you with 'tags'.
 
Our own ideas complete our world for us. Everyone's world is completed by their own ideas. Just as we would resent/resist our own 'world of ideas' being attacked or rudely intruded into, we should expect the same reaction from others. In these opposing quadrants of 'ideas', the further away the extreme positions are held, the greater and tougher is the travel to the meeting points.
 
The 7 (9 to 70) ladies should be extremely thankful to the Mumbaikars who showed restraint; given the existing atmosphere; given the existing atmosphere; given the existing atmosphere.
 
I wish you well. 
 
Kshmendra
 
PS. The above is a cold evaluation. I empathise with the sadness that you must felt. 
 

--- On Sun, 12/14/08, kabi cubby sherman <cubbykabi at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: kabi cubby sherman <cubbykabi at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN
To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 4:58 PM


 
ksmendra,

"One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has been that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India."
 
I take it you live in delhi.

i would like to share a sad personal anecdote - 

Friday was the human chain event here in bombay. Its message was no violence, no terror, no war. We are all one here in bombay, here in india.
it was organised by civil society groups - the name of the event was mumbai for peace - join hands in unity. http://www.mumbaicitizens.com/a/StartPage.aspx  this was just one event in a campaign with medium and longterm objectives
the groups name is citizens for peace http://citizensforpeace.in/  
i and some friends arrived at dadar tt early to pass out pamphlets. we were about 7 women, ages 9-70. more would be arriving later. we had on tshirts that said - jang nahin, aman chahiye on the back. we started passing out pamphlets. 2 men in their 50s probably, nicely dressed in western casual - came up and we started to give them pamphlets.  they stated they were against us and against our movement (in hindi). then they started shouting at us - you are muslims. there were no 'markers' which would let them 'read' us either way, or in any way since things arent binary. we asked - what is wrong with being muslim? we are all mumbaikar.. they said no, you are muslim and you are traitors. muslims are traitors.. we didnt engage.. we said that they were welcome to not join the chain if they didnt want to. they then left but came back and followed us to everyone we spoke to - saying dont join this, they are traitors, they are muslim. they are against war.

taking a step back, what was interesting was their logic. muslim=traitor has always been assumed by a part of the society. it now seems expanded to :
not wanting war=muslim=traitor and not wanting war=traitor=you are a muslim. 

personal anecdote is only that...(tho there have been more than just a few like this lately here in bombay). it is not the big picture. but the big picture doesnt contain the personal acendote, the day to day. let us all be aware of the ruptures, the fissures, the faultlines. let us try for community, for reason, for honesty about ourselves and for dialogue. 

kabi

 Meter Down - काली पीली कि कहानी
podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/meterdown
blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com





________________________________
 From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
Sent: Sunday, 14 December, 2008 4:31:56 PM
Subject: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN

Irfan Husain talks about 'so many Pakistanis' who are 'simply not willing to face the truth.". That could be said about so many Indians also of whom some on this List itself have suggested / propagated  bizarre conspiracy theories about the Mumbai Terror Attacks.
 
Worse still are those Indians who fleetingly acknowledge the 'truth' but bury it in a web of words out which they extract deductions that suggest "Oh! This was bound to happen. Such terror attacks are logical outcomes of our own policies. We ourselves are majorly to blame for the attacks on us"
 
One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has been that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India. 
 
But it is being directly or indirectly communalised by the above referred to Indians who in their intellectually devious jugglery of words and extricated cross-connections seem intent on breaking the solidarity shown this far by Indians of all hues.  
 
The Muslims of India and indeed many of Pakistan have been jolted by the Mumbai Terror Attacks and motivated into taking up issues head-on against the convoluted interpretations of Islam that justify such terror attacks. They need support in such introspection and efforts. They do not need facile argumentation that finds excuses for or justifications for such terror attacks. That will do harm to the Muslims and will do no good  
 
Kshmendra
 
 
EXTRACTS:
 
- ... there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity in Mumbai.
 
- It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as it seems; ........ In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth.

- .....  many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country.
 
- ..... it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not willing to face the truth.
 
- ..... what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status without doing something to change it.

- .... the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba.

- The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We have seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in jail or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over.
 
- .... since Zia’s destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam.

 
 
 
"Life in a parallel universe" - By Irfan Husain
DAWN
13th Dec 2008
 
IF you do a Google search with ‘CIA + RAW + Mossad + Mumbai attacks’ as your parameters, you will get about 51,200 results.


So clearly, there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity in Mumbai. Some of these theories have even appeared in the letters column of this newspaper. Sadly, Hamid Gul, the ex-head of the ISI, is one of the chief proponents of such hare-brained theories. The fact that he rose to become a three-star general makes one wonder about the promotion policies prevalent in our army..


It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as it seems; where we are all manipulated by forces that pull the strings from behind the scenes; and where we are ultimately helpless to change anything. In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth.


Over the last week, my inbox has been flooded with at least 300 emails regarding the last two columns I wrote about the Mumbai attacks. I have been attacked for being naïve, as well as a traitor. But I have been supported by other readers for calling a spade a spade. So clearly, there has been a very strong reaction to the gruesome events across the border.


I had suggested that many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. And while we have become accustomed to the growing mayhem they cause within our borders, other countries are not going to put up with their activities when their citizens are slaughtered by them. Despite the conclusive evidence that the recent attacks were launched from Pakistan by Pakistanis, many angry readers have asked me for proof. Others have accused me of betraying my country. Luckily, most of these diatribes have been poorly worded and argued, thus absolving me of the duty to respond.


Nevertheless, it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not willing to face the truth.. For unless they do, they will not demand the change of policy and direction that gave birth to these terror groups in the first place.


However, it is important to remember that Pakistanis are not the only ones given to spinning elaborate conspiracy theories to explain the most straightforward events. For example, millions are convinced to this day that the 9/11 attacks were caused by the CIA and/or Mossad. I even came across a guy who said the Japanese were behind the attacks to avenge the atomic bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Millions believe that Princess Di was killed by the British secret service at the behest of the royal family because she was going to marry a Muslim.


Most of these fantasies are harmless parlour games that occupy people with lots of time on their hands. But when a country emerges as a focal point for the global jihad, and people across the world are killed as a result of this terror campaign, clearly responsible leaders are duty bound to take action. And if the leadership of the country concerned is unable or unwilling to act, what is the rest of the world supposed to do?


In our case, the establishment responds to international opinion and pressure by pleading that Pakistan is the biggest victim of terrorism, as President Zardari has said in a recent op-ed piece in the New York Times. This is certainly true, but what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status without doing something to change it.


Since it is not easy to close our eyes to the reality of terrorism in Pakistan, given the grisly toll it exacts almost daily, many Pakistanis find all kinds of reasons to explain and justify it. These range from Palestine to Iraq to Afghanistan, and are seen by both right and left as a legitimate response to western attacks on Muslim lands. Closer to home, the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba.


What many Pakistanis forget is that these terror groups are more lethal for us than they are for other countries. How, for example, would the LeT have furthered the cause of Kashmir by vicious attacks on soft targets in Mumbai? The fact is that in purely tactical terms, the killing of innocent civilians does not gain any cause any support.


The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We have seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in jail or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over.


One problem that we do not examine closely enough is the fact that since Zia’s destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam.


It is this acceptance of an extremist mindset that has created limitless space for terror groups to thrive in. Add to this outlook the disputed border with Kashmir and the porous (and also disputed) frontier with Afghanistan, and you get a scenario for sanctioned mayhem. The final ingredient in this lethal cocktail is a tottering economy that is simply not capable of generating gainful employment for millions of young Pakistanis.


But the rest of world is not interested in these problems. It wants Pakistan to crack down on terror groups now, and put them out of commission. However, given the lack of a national consensus and the political resolve needed to combat this menace, it is difficult to see the PPP-led government taking strong action, especially if the army is not solidly onside.


And here’s the rub: for over two decades, the military and our intelligence agencies have been using many of these militants to fight their proxy wars. Many retired officers have developed personal and ideological links with the groups they handled while in uniform. To expect all this to change overnight is to demand too much of the fledgling democratic government.


irfan.husain at gmail.com
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20081213.htm
 
 
 


      
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