[Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption

[Taha Mehmood]

Dear Taraprakash,

Thank you for your response.

Let us carefully look at key arguments that you have presented.

1. The identity, as you have been suggesting, has a very wide semantic field
however, for the issue at hand, we can do without much of what the entire
field entails. When the sign id card serves as the signifier for an
individual, the former serves as a nishani.

Why do you think that 'we can do without much of what the entire field
entails'? What is so sacred or profane about the National identity card
which merits such negligence? That without a proper understanding of the
basic idea of identity we want to go in for an exercise of such a huge
scale. Don't you think that if we do that we also allow for irresponsible
disbursement of public funds?

2. the guy takes out a book from his bag that has Javed Akhtar's name as the
author and his photo on the book jacket. This book, hence, is the nishani or
the proof of Javed Akhtar's identity.

The premise seems to be that all icons will have correct tags. That
certainly is not the case with earlier exercises in providing identity
documents, is it not? So when the GOI could not conduct an exercise to
correctly photograph and tag voters of India or the poor of India how do you
think that they can photograph and tag the entire country? How is the
disbursement of so much money justified?

3. the relationship between the signifier, the national identity card, and
the signified, to whom it has been issued, will not be arbitrary as in the
case of a Sassurean sign. Again, I need the card so that in the event of my
getting killed by the state apparatuses etc etc...

Why do you think that only a national identity card can save you from
mis-identification or non-identification? The premise seems to be that only
a national identity card will have a validity that other forms of
identification documents have not? If this being the case then why do you
think so? Do you think that all voter id cards, ration cards, PAN cards,
driving licenses, passports, bank account statements, or identity documents
provided by employers are invalid? That we need a national identity card,
because no other supplement exists?

4. I still believe that the citizens should ask for a multipurpose id card
at birth which might be updated when the citizen becomes adult 18/21. The
state should not force it on the citizens, the citizens must force the state
to issue them.

What do mean by citizen Taraprakah, do you hold a normative position as
enshrined by our constitution? Do you think that citizenship in India is an
inalienable part of all Indians? Do you think that citizenship is not
negotiable?

5. I can't say about other states, India definitely is financially sound
enough to pay on behalf of its below poverty line citizens.

Most respectfully Tarapraksh, this above argument, left me completely
confused. You could clear this confusion by providing me with necessary
evidence. Please allow me to state why I was confused. I strongly feel that
before we can take pride in our Indian identity we must take pride in being
human. As far as I am concerned, I don't think that the Indian State seems
sincere in its efforts in ensuring that citizens feel proud in being a human
being. For instance, take the issue of Latrines. Yes Latrines, the place we
go to deposit our shit. We have in our country as of 2004 some 1.2 Million
Manual Scavengers. People whose work or rather the way of living is to
collect shit of other people. Their work entails bending on all fours and
going inside dry latrines of other people, collecting their shit with their
bare hands and putting them in cane baskets, and carrying them on their
heads and disposing them.

(Please read Manual scavenging: Court summons Principal Secretaries:
http://www.hinduonnet.com/2004/09/14/stories/2004091404061200.htm)

For a second if we approach this Multiple National Identity Card proposal
from the prespective of a Manual scavenger, what do you think his opinion
would be?

Don't you feel slightly confused here that howcome when as a nation we could
not garner enough money to  provide for Latrines for our population, we do
not seem to have any budgetary problems in providing for a smart digital
national identity card?

I think that India is still a very poor country, where whatever money that
the Government of India has needs to be  disbursed carefully.

I thnik everybody must have a right to the dignity of a human being before
they can take pride in X or Y National identity. Don't you think so on
similar lines?

Don't you feel  that we must debate the merits of this case, even as our
government create a mechanism for documenting our identity.

Warm regards

Taha

On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 8:01 PM, taraprakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  Dear Taha. Thanks for clarifying the difference between pahcan and
>> shinakht. To my mind nishani comes from nishan (a mark of identity). The
>> identity, as you have been suggesting, has a very wide semantic field
>> however, for the issue at hand, we can do without much of what the entire
>> field entails. When the sign id card serves as the signifier for an
>> individual, the former serves as a nishani. I remember we used to have four
>> library cards during our college days. That meant we could not be issued
>> more than 4 books. Very often four books were not enough for our needs. But
>> then there were students who did not use their library cards that often. So
>> you would borrow their cards. But the rule was that if you were borrowing
>> books on behalf of someone else, you had to show his/her college id card.
>> There identity worked as nishani (proof) of the fact that x had authorized
>> you to borrow books on x's card.
>>
>> You are right that it is not correct to translate nishani as identity, but
>> nishani can definitely be translated as proof of someone's identity. In a
>> plane journey you think you should know the guy sitting next to you. You
>> remember that he is a poet but you are wondering which one. You have always
>> confused Gulzar and Javed Akhtar with each other. You don't want to offend
>> the guy by misidentifying him as the other. Then the guy takes out a book
>> from his bag that has Javed Akhtar's name as the author and his photo on the
>> book jacket. This book, hence, is the nishani or the proof of Javed Akhtar's
>> identity.
>>
>> Having said that I must thank you for considering my perspectives worthy
>> enough to respond. Sadly I won't be able to write more mails on the topic,
>> primarily because net accessibility will remain sporradic to me for coming
>> few weeks. Secondly and more importantly I don't have anything of
>> significance to say on the topic.
>> Before concluding I must state that even though the number assigned to us
>> by the state towards our registration will be arbitrary, as you suggested,
>> yet the relationship between the signifier, the national identity card, and
>> the signnified, to whom it has been issued, will not be arbitrary as in the
>> case of a Sassurean sign. Again, I need the card so that in the event of my
>> getting killed by the state apparatuses, they will have less chance to
>> negate my erstwhile existence. In the case of my being declared dead by my
>> relatives, as happened with several people in UP, I should be able to show
>> my identity card that has my name and my photograph, to prove that I am
>> actually alive and those who have misappropriated my property are thugs. The
>> identity card may not help anyone economically, it *can* save us from being
>> harmed socially anb politically.
>> If the state has failed in its duties, as your examples prove; like not
>> being able to issue voter id cards for years, issuing multiple driving
>> licenses to one individual or issuing an id card for someone who does not
>> exist, it is not good for the citizens. The state should be forced to
>> address these issues. I still believe that the citizens should ask for a
>> multipurpose id card at birth which might be updated when the citizen
>> becomes adult 18/21. The state should not force it on the citizens, the
>> citizens must force the state to issue them. The state should not be allowed
>> to use resource crunch as an excuse. Most citizens will be willing to pay
>> for it if they don't have to pay separately for a passport and other such id
>> cards separately. I can't say about other states, India definitely is
>> financially sound enough to pay on behalf of its below poverty line
>> citizens. That the state is not ideal and it cannot change is the statement
>> of the pessimist. Progressive thinking has no scope for pessimism.
>>
>> Thanks
>> TaraPrakash
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>  *From:* Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>
>> *To:* taraprakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* reader-list at sarai.net
>>  *Sent:* Monday, December 29, 2008 10:49 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption
>>
>> Dear Taraprakash,
>>
>> Thank you for sharing that anecdote.
>>
>> I think what you say about the amnesic grandfather is pertinent just as it
>> is pertinent to remember the profound words of our Lord Krishna, when he
>> exhorts every one of us in Mahabharata about the significance Vasudev
>> Kutumbkam, which of course means that in fact, insofar as this earth is
>> concerned, we are one family. From Bible's, Torah's or Quran's perspective
>> all of us here are children of Adam alay salam and Havva.
>>
>> Taking that line of argument forward one could wonder then why is it that
>> if God made one earth for all of us, then there are so many divisions? Who
>> are we to divide God's earth?
>>
>> Don't you feel that seen from the perspectives mentioned above entities
>> like nation state and its residues like citizenship and identity seems so
>> contrived? Don't you think the idea of a nation becomes an artificial,
>> almost plastic, synthetic notion, if we take Lord Krishna's words as our
>> basic premise?
>>
>> Even Patanjali, suggests us, again and again to go beyond Rajas and Tamas
>> and reach the state of Sattva. Go beyond to where all forms of Buddhi
>> (Knowledge), Anubahava (Cognition), Smriti (Memory), Prama (Truth), Aparma
>> (Untruth), Samasya (Doubt), Tarka (Argument), Upaman (Comparison), Sabda
>> (Testimony) are made redundant. Of course, as we all know, that for him,
>> Purusha exists in all of us. We just need to realise Yogah Chittah Vritti
>> Nirodah through Abhyas or practise.
>>
>> One sometimes wonder had we all been followers of Patanjali, this world
>> would have been such a nice place to stay, however, dear Taraprakash,
>> unfortunately, for you and me and everyone we live in a time where it is not
>> so. The idea of a nation far from being contrived, is a dominant part of our
>> reality which we have to confront and deal with on an every day basis. We
>> are not coaxed or cajoled or pushed to remember that we are all part of the
>> one Purusha but we are reminded of a national identity and we are asked to
>> contribute our subjectivity to be archived in a national memory.
>>
>> Multiple purpose National Identity Card is just a token of our
>> citizenship. But an important one though.
>>
>> You mentioned-
>> "mere apne mere hone ki nishani maange" (my own people ask for my
>> identity")
>>
>> A slight correction, I think, Nishani is not equal to identity. Pechan is,
>> I think the correct word for identity and Shanakth for Identification,
>> Shanakthi Kagaz would be Identification Papers.
>>
>> Nishani is more like a mark, a trace, which someone like Barthes, would
>> deem it to be like a bit of information which is used to identify or
>> pinpoint certain elements in time and space. The MNIC will give all us a
>> number, which would be more like a Saussurean signifier, you know, an
>> arbitrary sign which has netiher the resemblance nor  an existential
>> relationship to its referent. We or rather our subjectivity will be coded
>> through an index, which will of course not resemble us but nevertheless,
>> will have a real connection with us. Our photographs will be objectified as
>> icons, which would claim to represent us by its similarity to us. We of
>> course know, how successful the exercise,to issue Electronic Photo Identity
>> Cards was. That even after eighteen long years, since they were introduced,
>> the Government of India has successfully distributed photo Voter Identity
>> Cards only two thirds of our population.
>>
>> But of course past failures must not deter us, or the fact that no where
>> in this world had there been a model where there has been a positive co
>> relationship between issuance of national identity cards and uplift of the
>> poor or a negative co relationship between the issuance of a national
>> identity card and complete extinction of illegitimate citizens must stop us.
>> As you rightly suggested, that an amnesic grandfather requires his brood to
>> be marked.
>>
>> I think we also need to ask this question to ourselves. Why do we need a
>> Nishani (Mark) to identify ourselves to that man whom we call our
>> grandfather? We know who he is, don't we? We know that we are his children's
>> children? Maybe that grandfather of your friend was resourceful enough, rich
>> enough to afford the price of branding all his grand children. Ideally we
>> would all like our grandfather to be rich don't we.
>>
>> But dear Taraprakash, we don't live in an ideal world. We live in a real
>> world where not all  grandfathers are that rich.
>>
>> That some times the most pressing need for a grandfather is to  take care
>> of his grandchildren. See to it that they are clothed, that they are fed,
>> that they are educated, that they have a future to look forward to, so that
>> they can proudly go out there in this world and swear allegiance to their
>> grandfathers name. Not because, they have an ugly mark on their for head as
>> a patrimonial testimony or because they are absolutely certain that there
>> can be no way with which other grandchildren of their village can dare to
>> copy that mark but maybe because they are confident of the values that they
>> have imbibed, that they have a use, an ability with which they can
>> contribute for the betterment of their village.
>>
>> The question we need to ask is that, can our grandfather afford the luxury
>> of a Nishani (Mark)?
>>
>> Warm regards
>>
>> Taha
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 3:50 PM, taraprakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>  Dear Taha and all. You have raised very valid questions in your mail.
>>>  "Why is it that everyday millions of poor of our country have to bribe
>>> in perhaps millions to get that piece of paper? If our State is a welfare
>>> state, then why do we, even in the middle-classes, have to undergo bouts of
>>> insecurity, apprehension, fear in the absence of identity documents? When we
>>> know who we are or do we? When as far as our subjectivity is concerned, we
>>> can be pretty sure and confident in telling others about not only ourselves
>>> but histories of our families?"
>>> I wish I could answer those questions. In an ideal society all this
>>> should not be the case, but we are not living in an ideal universe. A friend
>>> of mine from Pakistan has many anecdotes about his amnesiac grand father. He
>>> had 24 sons. To differentiate his sons from other kids in the neighborhood,
>>> he had got tatooed the names on their hands. I wish the modern states were
>>> not as large as they are now. But since we are, I believe all the children
>>> need to remind our amnesiac father that they too belong to the family and
>>> therefore, need being provided for.
>>>
>>> Yes sadly we have reached in the state of "mere apne mere hone ki nishani
>>> maange" (my own people ask for my identity"
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  *From:* Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>
>>>   *To:* taraprakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* reader-list at sarai.net
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 28, 2008 10:05 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption
>>>
>>> Dear Taraprakash,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your mail.
>>>
>>> The question is not whether you agree or disagree with me. Please do not
>>> consider my posts as an exercise in public persuasion. Far from it, I would
>>> rather think of them as an exercise in public questioning. If we are a
>>> democracy then as citizens of a proud country we have a duty and an
>>> obligation in following the rule of law. If a National identity card is
>>> introduced then I will accept it. But as citizens we also have a duty and an
>>> obligation to engage in public processes. Hence if the Government of India
>>> has proposed that it intends to issue a National Identity card then I
>>> believe all of us must think about it. And talk to each other about the
>>> nature of that process, its history and so on. Reader list gives us this
>>> space. And there is no harm in talking about it.
>>>
>>> Having said that, please allow me to say that I share your anxiety
>>> regarding the need to have an identity document rather than not having one.
>>>
>>> Have you ever wondered that when individual family histories of most
>>> Indians out date the history of independent India by many years then why do
>>> we sometimes feel this insecurity or fear if do not have a piece of paper, a
>>> token really, certifying who we are?
>>>
>>> Why is it that everyday millions of poor of our country have to bribe in
>>> perhaps millions to get that piece of paper? If our State is a welfare
>>> state, then why do we, even in the middle-classes, have to undergo bouts of
>>> insecurity, apprehension, fear in the absence of identity documents? When we
>>> know who we are or do we? When as far as our subjectivity is concerned, we
>>> can be pretty sure and confident in telling others about not only ourselves
>>> but histories of our families?
>>>
>>> Why is it that when we have in India a fairly rich history of the failure
>>> of the State to capture all Indians under some sort of a documentation
>>> regime, that goes back last one hundred and thirty years, that we still seem
>>> to have faith in the Idea of a passport or an identity document some sort?
>>>
>>> Maybe if we start asking even more rudimentary questions about the
>>> history of the passport or history of the ration card then we could perhaps
>>> have a more distilled understanding of this need, which sometime seems
>>> inevitable isn't it, to have an identity card rather than not have one.
>>>
>>> Warm regards
>>>
>>> Taha
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 1:05 AM, taraprakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now, I agree with you there for sure. Corruption is really a big problem
>>>> of the country. I don't read much discussion on this kind of corruption on
>>>> this list. In fact corruption does not seem to be part of any intellectual
>>>> discourse these days.
>>>> Still I don't consider corruption to be a good enough reason to
>>>> outrightly reject this plan. As your mail suggested it is possible to make
>>>> fake passports and driving licences but still the driving license and
>>>> passport regime is on and we can't think of an alternative to it. Moreover,
>>>> as far as I know, it is not a norm but an aberration. And finally I believe
>>>> it is safer to have multiple (even fake) identities than to have none. Such
>>>> an identity card regime will be useful to remind the state of the existence
>>>> of the forgotten multitudinous citizenry.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" <
>>>> 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>
>>>> To: <reader-list at sarai.net>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:00 PM
>>>> Subject: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Dear Taraprakash,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am still not convinced about giving competence of data gathering
>>>>> agencies. Please read the story below for more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best
>>>>>
>>>>> Taha
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Nagpur/In_RTO_a_licence_for_corruption/articleshow/3898438.cms
>>>>> The Times of India. Nagpur Edition
>>>>> In RTO, a licence for corruption
>>>>> 27 Dec 2008, 0111 hrs IST, Vijay Pinjarkar, TNN
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In the year 2000, MLA Devendra Fadnavis had exposed the corruption at
>>>>> the regional transport office
>>>>> (RTO) Nagpur when he 'managed' to get two
>>>>> driving licences issued. The first was in the name of a dead man. The
>>>>> second licence — intended to be a political barb — was made for the
>>>>> then chief minister, without the CM being present for the mandatory
>>>>> driving test.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, a sting operation by TOI in August revealed that things have
>>>>> failed to change even after eight years. The trail of corruption
>>>>> continues in a more organised way in the RTO office which has been
>>>>> virtually taken over by touts, enabling any person to obtain as many
>>>>> number of duplicate licences by bypassing all rules.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the second week of July, my boss called me and narrated a mishap in
>>>>> Mumbai in which three persons were crushed to death by a rashly driven
>>>>> truck. When the driver was arrested, police seized nine driving
>>>>> licences from him. This exposed the corrupt affairs in Mumbai RTO
>>>>> office. Taking a cue from this incident, he asked me to check if I
>>>>> could get a duplicate licence issued in my name even though I very
>>>>> much had the original licence.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I went to the RTO office, I was greeted at the entrance by a
>>>>> tout. I told him that I wanted a duplicate licence and lied that I had
>>>>> lost my original one. He asked me to bring a copy of the police
>>>>> complaint for the misplaced licence. "If that's not possible," he
>>>>> said, "it would cost you Rs 500." The official charges to get a
>>>>> duplicate licence are Rs 200. I protested that Rs 500 was too much.
>>>>>
>>>>> The broker gave me a neat break-up. "If you stand in the long queue,
>>>>> it'll take time and the RTO staff will ask you copy of FIR. If you go
>>>>> through me, it'll be easy. Out of Rs 500, I hardly get Rs 100, after
>>>>> paying Rs 150 to the woman at the counter for out-of turn clearance of
>>>>> forms. Rs 200 is paid towards smart card
>>>>> fee besides Rs 50 to the computer clerk at the thumb impression
>>>>> counter for early processing of cases."
>>>>>
>>>>> I trusted the broker, who has a pucca shop at the RTO gate, and gave
>>>>> him Rs 500. He promised to deliver the licence in two days and asked
>>>>> me to come around 4 pm for the thumb impression and photograph. Due to
>>>>> load-shedding, I had to visit twice for this. The RTO staff hardly
>>>>> works for four hours as the office doesn't have a generator.
>>>>>
>>>>> The next day, the broker made me stand in a long queue despite
>>>>> promising otherwise. But even then, it took him almost 25 days to get
>>>>> me the licence as against the couple of days he had sworn.
>>>>>
>>>>> Frustrated by the affairs, I finally told him I was a journalist and
>>>>> that I would now take my duplicate licence directly from the RTO. The
>>>>> broker was shocked. He grabbed me by the hand and took me to the woman
>>>>> clerk, who issues licences and told her about me. Stunned, she said,
>>>>> "Why did you approach him? You could have directly come to me."
>>>>> However, all said and done, I got my licence in 10 minutes. The next
>>>>> day, I went to officiating RTO Raj Bagri and offered to surrender the
>>>>> duplicate licence. He returned it saying it was of no use to the RTO.
>>>>> I told him the entire story. He laughed and could only say, "It's a
>>>>> worrying factor."
>>>>>
>>>>> There were brokers who were ready to issue even more than two licences
>>>>> to me. In the huge scale of corruption in our country, getting a
>>>>> duplicate licence issued fraudulently may not seem like a big deal.
>>>>> Until, that is, you remember that the hijackers of the Air India
>>>>> flight from Kathmandu in 1998 had also obtained their bogus passports
>>>>> on the strength of the driving licence procured through touts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scary, isn't it?
>>>>>
>>>>> (While covering transport, Vijay Pinjarkar often goes the extra mile)
>>>>> _________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
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