[Reader-list] gujrat election

Sat Jan 5 16:14:40 IST 2008

Dear Tara Prakash

  It is not proper to ascribe to me views that have not be expressed by me. So I object to the purport of your words """""But, of course,  you are free to have your opinion and believe that people were actually mesmerized by Modi.""""

  Nowhere have I suggested that the people (of Gujrat) were 'mesmerised' by Modi. If it is your opinion, then express it as it being yours.

  You were very liberal in castigating people and 'forces' as 'evil'. Now that one requests for explanations that would lead to understanding how that 'evil' managed to win the elections, you are trapezing all over the place. Time you landed on solid earth.

  Let me present a construct from what has been said so far and see what you have to say:

  A. Evil (as per Tara Prakash) wins in Gujrat elections. Modi won it.

  B. As per Tara Prakash "Not only so-called pseudo secular forces or soft Hindutva forces were campaigning against Modi, but major part of the hard-core Hindutva forces were also against him." That would suggest a very pleasing support base for Modi.

  C. As per Tara Prakash  "The fight in Gujarat was a fight between Hindus and Hindus if Hindus have won, Hindus have lost too..... Evil wins and Evil loses" Tara Prakash clarifies that he did not intend to homogenise Hindus. Let us accept that.

  D. Tara Prakash seems to advance a lack of alternate (non-evil) choice for the people of Gujrat as reason for "Evil" winning.

  E. Tara Prakash says "Electoral victory does not always mean that people have given you a clean chit."

  F. All the above put together lead to some intriguing questions:

     1. Did the people of Gujrat vote Modi in, being well aware that Modi was "evil"? Are those who voted for Modi themselves "evil' too?

     2. Were the people of Gujrat blinded by lack of judgement and absence of moral/ethical values that they voted Modi or because they were too naive/foolish to recognise Modi as "evil"? Were the people of Gujrat 'mesmerised' by the 'evil ' Modi?

     3. In midst of the the abundance of "evil" people and forces (as per Tara Prakash) did the people of Gujrat opt for the "lesser evil"? Wouldnt that would make it a sensible choice? Who then were the forces of "greater evil" that were rejected? Or were the people of Gujrat so very "evil' that they chose the 'greater evil' in Modi? 

  Look forward to Tara Prakash giving specific answers, hopefully as specific of his/her designating people/forces as "evil".

  Kshmendra Kaul 

TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:

  From: TaraPrakash 
  To: Kshmendra Kaul ; reader-list at sarai.net 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 1:51 PM
  Subject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat election

  Dear Kshmendra.
  The first major attack on the democracy in India, I believe,  came in the form of the emergency imposed by Indira Gandhi. Of course, there were certain supporters of the emergency and there still are some, but for the first time Congress was voted out of the power in the center. Very soon, however, the elections had to be held again which resulted in congress coming back. It did not mean that people had forgiven Indira Gandhi for the attrocities commited during the emergency. But people did not have any solid alternative. Electoral victory does not always mean that people have given you a clean chit.
  The party which was alternative to Modi's winning party was no better in the opinion of the voters in Gujarat. Supporting Congress might have been interpreted as a support to the policies of the center government run by the Congress. So may be you should take Modi's victory as rejection of the policies of the central government by the people of Gujarat. Don't forget that the way Congress had organized its election campaign, it was depending on the high command more than the local leaders. But, of course,  you are free to have your opinion and believe that people were actually mesmerized by Modi.

    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Kshmendra Kaul 
  To: TaraPrakash ; reader-list at sarai.net 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 4:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat election

  Dear Tara Prakash

  I already accepted your earlier stated clarification that you do not want to homogenise.

  I am now trying to make sense of what "exactly" you meant. So let me re-state my enquiries:

  1. If all the 'forces' named by you ( so-called pseudo secular forces + soft Hindutva forces + major part of the hard-core Hindutva forces) were pitted against Modi, then who are the ones that voted  Modi back into government?????? It cannot be the "hard-core Hindutva forces" because according to you the major part of them were against Modi. Who therefore does Modi represent??????

  2. If a substantial part of the 65% vote (in the Gujarat election) was secured by those who you call the representatives of evil "main forces" (as per Tara Prakash, whether they won or lost), then wouldnt a logical deduction from Tara Prakash's premise be that those participating voters were "evil" too??????

  These are questions. Of course you can say "I said what I said and I do not care what meanings are conveyed or whether anything meaningful is conveyed at all; I said what I said" 

  Kshmendra Kaul

TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
      If this is how you understand the message, let this be the import of my message. I of course do not want to homogenize in any circumstance. 
    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Kshmendra Kaul 
  To: TaraPrakash ; reader-list at sarai.net 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 8:01 AM
  Subject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat election

  Dear Tara Prakash

  Your words were very clear and did not need any interpretation by me. Maybe it was an unfortunate turn of phrase and words by you. In any case, now, you have clarified that you did not mean that all Hindus are evil.

  You have again said some interesting things. For one:

  """""" Not only so-called pseudo secular forces or soft Hindutva forces were campaigning against Modi, but major part of the hard-core Hindutva forces were also against him.""""

  If all the 'forces' named by you were pitted against Modi, then who are the ones that voted  Modi back into government? It cannot be the "hard-core Hindutva forces" because according to you the major part of them were against Modi. 

  AND you go on to say:

  """"" I stick to my opinion that the main forces contesting these election both represented evil."""""

  Gujarat had a 65% voter turn-out. That is quite a high percentage for any part of the world. If a substantial part of this 65% vote was secured by those who you call the representatives of evil "main forces" (whether they won or lost), then those participating voters would be "evil" too.

  So, in the "Gujarat according to Tara Prakash" it was 'mainly' the 'evil' contesting and 'mainly' the 'evil' voting.

  Kshmendra Kaul

TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
      Dear Kshmendra.
  An intriguing interpretation of my message.
  I did not intend to homogenize Hindus, as the message I was responding to, did.
  I don't see Hindu farmers getting anything positive from Modi's policies. Nor other poor Hindus.
  Not only so-called pseudo secular forces or soft Hindutva forces were campaigning against Modi, but major part of the hard-core Hindutva forces were also against him. In this specific "electoral fight" even if Modi had lost there would not be much positive expected. 
  I stick to my opinion that the main forces contesting these election both represented evil. It does not mean that I am calling Hindus evil. The evil had to be elected because there were no other alternatives. 
  It will be presumptuous on my part to define Hinduism here, but I refuse to restrict it to some opportunist ruffians. I refuse to buy the Hindutva brand sold by the brigade.

    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Kshmendra Kaul 
  To: TaraPrakash ; reader-list at sarai.net 
  Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 4:25 AM
  Subject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat election

  Dear Tara Prakash

  Intriguing comment by you. You wrote:

  """"'The fight in Gujarat was a fight between Hindus and Hindus if Hindus have won, Hindus have lost too. So your victory gets canceled. Evil wins and evil loses."""""

  It suggests rather states very blatantly that in your opinion whether the Hindu wins or loses, the Hindu is evil. Or at least in the specific case of Gujarat's electoral fights, according to you, whether the Hindus were on the winning side or the losing side, the Hindus are evil.

  Kshmendra Kaul

TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
  Isn't it rather a defeat of Hindu forces? Ask Praveen Togadia. Ask the
RSS members discontented with Modi. Ask the guy giving Modi "Brahmin ka
shaap" for getting his son murdered. Will another Hindu terrorist Advani be
happy with the results? Is Uma Bharati pseudo secular or pseudo communal for
floating her own party against BJP?
The fight in Gujarat was a fight between Hindus and Hindus if Hindus have
won, Hindus have
lost too. So your victory gets canceled. Evil wins and evil loses.
May be you will be more careful before putting your foot in to your mouth
next time.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Vedavati Jogi" 
To: ; 
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 12:20 AM
Subject: [Reader-list] gujrat election

>
>
>
>
> whether it is a victory for bjp or for modi....its a useless question.
> its a victory for hindus. and i hope it will be an eye opener for psudo
> seculars!
>
> you can't always divide hindus & rule. thank you gujjubhais for showing
> the world that when hindus unite, hindu vote bank too can be formed!
>
> vedavati
>
>
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