[Reader-list] Manipuri women coming to stir up Govt. at Delhi - Campaign against Militarization, Impunity and AFSPA 1958

Fri Jan 18 10:28:54 IST 2008

My dear Chanchal,

Before you unsubscribe from the list, let us have a good argument. I have an
appetite for one and it's strange that my appetite emerges when you are
vocal on an issue. Anyhow, let's get down to the "facts".

Firstly, until you do not tell me where you got the information from, I have
no way to find out whether this is "correct" or "not".

Secondly, I have been to Kashmir too and have been eve teased on the roads
by "Hindu" soldiers if you please. (I thought patriotic souls like you don't
make distinctions on religious grounds when it comes to the army??!?!?!)

Thirdly, in any conflict situation where the army is brought into the
picture, there are likely to be violences committed against women, whether
the women are Hindu or Muslim. If you have been to Kashmir, you don't need
to be reminded of what happened to the girls in the Kunan Poshpora incident?
(unless of course you choose not to see this aspect of "facts" because it
does not suit your position!?!) If you have ever heard of violence in
Punjab, you don't need to be told of how women, irrespective of whether they
are "Hindu" or "Muslim" or "Punjabi" (in case you think "Hindu" don't apply
to "Punjabi" women), have been raped/coerced into sleeping with the
policemen.

Fourthly, on the second evening of our time in Srinagar, the boys and girls
who had come with me, were sitting in the houseboat and discussing "India",
"Kashmir" "Hindu-Muslim conflicts in India", etc. with Kashmiri boys. The
Kashmiri boys referred to the violences against Muslims in "India" and the
"Indian" girls and boys (I am going to be killed for calling one of them
"Indian" because he is against state violence in Telangana) spoke of the
exodus of the Pandits. At one point in the discussion, someone raised the
point stating that there are enough "facts" that can be gotten to support
"our points of view", and none of these would be wrong. The point is whether
we are willing to budge from our *positions* and see other perspectives.

You can continue to support the army and get evidences about Muslim men in
the army committing violence against Hindu women and you can work the flawed
logics of your flawed mathematics posed with history the way you like to see
it. And you can even continue to say that you don't hate Muslims but are
wanting them to raise their voices against these happenings. But why don't
you have the "guts" to get down from your position and see that violence is
being committed against women in almost all conflict areas whether it is
Punjab or North East or Kashmir or Palestine or Nicaragua or Iraq. And here
it is not a question of Hindu women versus Muslim women versus Christian
women versus alien women. It is a matter of women violated by the state
which manifests itself in the form of the army. I hope that as a woman, you
can be sensitive to this rather than brush this aside and get into your
baseless (until you quote sources and evidence) ranting about "Hindu" and
"Muslim"!

Apologies if I am sounding angry, but sometimes I just cannot make out what
you are trying to communicate and then what you say ends up making me wonder
as to where your sensitivities, logics and brain lie.

Best,

Zainab

On Jan 17, 2008 10:37 PM, chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> It would be great, if I am unsubscribed from this list..
> I do not want to waste my time with people who cannot see beyond the
> screen...
>
> Thank you all...
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Kulpreet Singh <zapfmann at gmail.com>
> To: reader-list at sarai.net
> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 10:32:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Manipuri women coming to stir up Govt. at Delhi
> - Campaign against Militarization, Impunity and AFSPA 1958
>
> On Thursday 17 January 2008 22:27:53 Zainab Bawa wrote:
>
> Way to go Zainab!
>
> -kp
>
> > Dear Chanchal,
> >
> > Can you please quote the sources of your information? Otherwise we can
> all
> > cook up facts ad nauseum, to suit our points of view.
> >
> > Thanking you in advance,
> >
> > Yours truly,
> >
> > Zainab
> >
> >
> > On Jan 17, 2008 9:51 PM, chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > The news is correct.. But there is more depth to such news..
> > > Like the one I am quoting here..
> > >
> > > In Kashmir some Army officials have been court martialed.. you all
> know
> > > this..
> > > But the real stories has many faces..
> > > one of them is:
> > >
> > > Muslim senior officers had forced junior Hindu officers to bring Hindu
> > > girls for enjoyment...
> > > And somehow these juniors ran away and didn't do it.. and they were
> court
> > > martialed..
> > >
> > > So those who defame Indian Army in Kashmir and other places, must also
> > > try to know the name of officers who had done the crime and just not
> > > defame the whole Army..
> > > For example, we can take the case of who posted this mail...
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: OISHIK SIRCAR <oishiksircar at gmail.com>
> > > To: peaceworksdefenders at googlegroups.com;
> > > sexualityinstitute2002 at yahoogroups.co.in; sarai list <
> > > reader-list at sarai.net>; ILS Across Borders <
> > > ILS-Across-Borders at googlegroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 9:39:40 PM
> > > Subject: [Reader-list] Manipuri women coming to stir up Govt. at Delhi
> -
> > > Campaign against Militarization, Impunity and AFSPA 1958
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > *Campaign against Militarization, Impunity and Armed Forces Special
> > > Powers Act *
> > >
> > > *On the Eve of Republic Day *
> > >
> > > *25th January 2008 *
> > >
> > > * *
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On July 15 2004, for the first time in its history, the Indian
> > > "democracy" witnessed an unusual mode of protest against its
> government.
> > > About a dozen women came out on the street and disrobed themselves,
> > > protesting against the
> > > AFSPA and rape/murder of Thangjam Manorama, in front of an occupied
> > > historic
> > > place, the Kangla Fort in Manipur, (where the 17 th Assam Rifles
> > > Battalion is stationed).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The message of the protest was "INDIAN ARMY RAPE US". This novel
> > > agitation sparked the awakening of many citizens inside the country as
> > > well as people
> > > in other parts of world, on the plight, sufferings and atrocities on
> > > Manipur
> > > people under the military boots.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *These brave and noble women from Manipur are coming to Delhi to stir
> up
> > > the
> > > claustrophobic Government of India, on the eve of Republic Day and
> going
> > > to
> > > continue for a month time. The protest is being organized against the
> > > Central Government's arrogant behavior, blatant propaganda and
> > > insensitivity
> > > towards the plight of people of Manipur *
> > >
> > > * *
> > >
> > > The Indian Government has actively encouraged violence committed by
> the
> > > security forces under the draconian law -- Armed Forces Special Powers
> > > Act,
> > > 1958 (AFSPA, 1958), which legitimizes any army personnel to shoot,
> kill
> > > and
> > > destroy a person or a property on mere "suspicion". This Act has also
> > > promoted militarization in the entire North East, where possibility
> for
> > > any
> > > genuine legal proceedings to take place for justice or accountability
> has
> > > become an impossibility and use of extra-judicial killings by
> > > state-promoted
> > > renegade groups like the SULFA in Assam and Ikhwaanis in Kashmir with
> > > complete impunity has become endemic.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The country is proud to claim itself as the world's largest democracy,
> > > but how it is defining it, is a real question and a mockery, when
> there
> > > is martial law functioning (AFSPA 1958) in North East and J&K regions
> for
> > > nearly last fifty years.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Friends, this kleptocratic government is a clear and present danger to
> > > every
> > > citizen of this country. We need to protest fiercely until the system
> is
> > > put
> > > in place, in order to ensure the security of common citizens.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *We are inviting every citizens of this nation to participate in the
> > > campaign to strengthen our long overdue peaceful struggle as many days
> as
> > > you would be able to. This is the least we can do to protest against
> this
> > > injustice system which saddens our hearts yet the government ignores
> to
> > > listen our plight. We are confident that  truth will emerge victorious
> > > one day through your esteem support. *
> > >
> > > *                Looking forward for your kind presence. *
> > >
> > >  *Please come and join on the*
> > >
> > > *Campaign against Militarization, Impunity, and the Armed Forces
> Special
> > > Powers Act. *
> > >
> > > * *
> > >
> > > *Date: 25th January 2008*
> > >
> > > *Place: Jantar Mantar *
> > >
> > > *Time: 1:00 pm*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Recommendation for the repeal of AFSPA 1958 from government committees
> > > and international organizations:
> > >
> > > ·        1991, UN Human Rights Committee
> > >
> > > ·        2005, Justice Jeevan Reddy Committee
> > >
> > > ·        2006, India UN CEDAW Report
> > >
> > > ·        2007, UN CERD
> > >
> > > ·        2007, Administrative Reform Committee
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Campaign Coordinator
> > >
> > > Onil
> > >
> > > Reachout
> > >
> > > +91-9818781767
> > >
> > > Email: onilrights at gmail.com , reachout2006 at gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sundara Babu Nagappan
> > >
> > > Independent Researcher
> > >
> > > +91-9311744919
> > >
> > > Email: babuubab at gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sapamcha Kangleipal
> > >
> > > NE Youth Coordinator
> > >
> > > +91-9862096539
> > >
> > > Email: kangleipal at yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Vani Subramanian
> > >
> > > Saheli
> > >
> > > +91-9891128911
> > >
> > > Email: saheliwomen at hotmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kavita Joshi
> > >
> > > Impulse
> > >
> > > +91-9868888642
> > >
> > > Email: kj.impulse at gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tanya Mathan
> > >
> > > Coordinator, Voluntary Agency Placement Programme (VAPP),
> > >
> > > Lady Shri Ram College
> > >
> > > +91-9891703465
> > >
> > > Email: vapp.lsr at gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *(Esteemed supporters please endorsed your organization name and bring
> > > your
> > > organization's name banner on the day of protest) *
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > OISHIK SIRCAR
> > >
> > > Scholar in Women's Rights
> > > Faculty of Law, University of Toronto
> > >
> > > 60 Harbord Street
> > > Room 016 B
> > > Toronto, ON M5S 3L1
> > >
> > > oishiksircar at gmail.com
> > > oishik.sircar at utoronto.ca
> > >
> > > 416.876.7926
> > > _________________________________________
> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > subscribe in the subject header.
> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> _________________________________________________________________________
> > >___________ Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> > > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> > > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
> > > _________________________________________
> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > subscribe in the subject header.
> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe
> > in the subject header. To unsubscribe:
> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive:
> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>
>
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>