[Reader-list] Manipuri women coming to stir up Govt. at Delhi - Campaign against Militarization, Impunity and AFSPA 1958

faiz ullah faiz.outsider at gmail.com
Fri Jan 18 12:22:27 IST 2008 

Thanks Pawan,

It's maybe better this way...that i don't understand it. if I did, I'd have
lost the capacity to love.

:)




On Jan 18, 2008 12:14 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Faizullah ,
>
> If you have failed to understand the word nationalism , that i quite
> understandable .
>
> Regards
>
> Pawan
>
>
> On 1/18/08, faiz ullah <faiz.outsider at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Pawan,
> >
> > I've not been able to understand the idea of nationalism to this day,
> > and I sincerely believe that its meaning (if there is one) will elude me for
> > the rest of my life. Likewise, it beats me when i try to understand what
> > 'turning' into an anti national means. Whom does a nationalist love (its
> > people, land, offices, poor?) and whom does an anti-national go ahead and
> > hurt (its people, land, offices, poor?).
> >
> > Just in case you're not up to writing a response, please do take out
> > some time to answer the following multiple choice question...
> >
> > Deriving from the statement : "When a hindu is violated he doesn't turn
> > anti national" please choose the correct or approximate analogy
> >
> > a. When a muslim/christian/sikh/parsi is violated he always turns anti
> > national
> > b. When a muslim/christian/sikh/parsi is violated he might turns anti
> > national
> > c. When a muslim/christian/sikh/parsi is violated he should turns anti
> > national
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 18, 2008 10:33 AM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Zainab ,
> > >
> > > I do not diagree that representatives of states sometimes do misuse
> > > their
> > > authority . However the difference is that when a hindu is violated he
> > >
> > > doesnt turn anti national.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Pawan
> > >
> > >
> > > On 1/18/08, Zainab Bawa <bawazainab79 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My dear Chanchal,
> > > >
> > > > Before you unsubscribe from the list, let us have a good argument. I
> > > have
> > > > an
> > > > appetite for one and it's strange that my appetite emerges when you
> > > are
> > > > vocal on an issue. Anyhow, let's get down to the "facts".
> > > >
> > > > Firstly, until you do not tell me where you got the information
> > > from, I
> > > > have
> > > > no way to find out whether this is "correct" or "not".
> > > >
> > > > Secondly, I have been to Kashmir too and have been eve teased on the
> > > roads
> > > > by "Hindu" soldiers if you please. (I thought patriotic souls like
> > > you
> > > > don't
> > > > make distinctions on religious grounds when it comes to the
> > > army??!?!?!)
> > > >
> > > > Thirdly, in any conflict situation where the army is brought into
> > > the
> > > > picture, there are likely to be violences committed against women,
> > > whether
> > > > the women are Hindu or Muslim. If you have been to Kashmir, you
> > > don't need
> > > > to be reminded of what happened to the girls in the Kunan Poshpora
> > > > incident?
> > > > (unless of course you choose not to see this aspect of "facts"
> > > because it
> > > > does not suit your position!?!) If you have ever heard of violence
> > > in
> > > > Punjab, you don't need to be told of how women, irrespective of
> > > whether
> > > > they
> > > > are "Hindu" or "Muslim" or "Punjabi" (in case you think "Hindu"
> > > don't
> > > > apply
> > > > to "Punjabi" women), have been raped/coerced into sleeping with the
> > > > policemen.
> > > >
> > > > Fourthly, on the second evening of our time in Srinagar, the boys
> > > and
> > > > girls
> > > > who had come with me, were sitting in the houseboat and discussing
> > > > "India",
> > > > "Kashmir" "Hindu-Muslim conflicts in India", etc. with Kashmiri
> > > boys. The
> > > > Kashmiri boys referred to the violences against Muslims in "India"
> > > and the
> > > > "Indian" girls and boys (I am going to be killed for calling one of
> > > them
> > > > "Indian" because he is against state violence in Telangana) spoke of
> > > the
> > > > exodus of the Pandits. At one point in the discussion, someone
> > > raised the
> > > > point stating that there are enough "facts" that can be gotten to
> > > support
> > > > "our points of view", and none of these would be wrong. The point is
> > > > whether
> > > > we are willing to budge from our *positions* and see other
> > > perspectives.
> > > >
> > > > You can continue to support the army and get evidences about Muslim
> > > men in
> > > > the army committing violence against Hindu women and you can work
> > > the
> > > > flawed
> > > > logics of your flawed mathematics posed with history the way you
> > > like to
> > > > see
> > > > it. And you can even continue to say that you don't hate Muslims but
> > > are
> > > > wanting them to raise their voices against these happenings. But why
> > > don't
> > > > you have the "guts" to get down from your position and see that
> > > violence
> > > > is
> > > > being committed against women in almost all conflict areas whether
> > > it is
> > > > Punjab or North East or Kashmir or Palestine or Nicaragua or Iraq.
> > > And
> > > > here
> > > > it is not a question of Hindu women versus Muslim women versus
> > > Christian
> > > > women versus alien women. It is a matter of women violated by the
> > > state
> > > > which manifests itself in the form of the army. I hope that as a
> > > woman,
> > > > you
> > > > can be sensitive to this rather than brush this aside and get into
> > > your
> > > > baseless (until you quote sources and evidence) ranting about
> > > "Hindu" and
> > > > "Muslim"!
> > > >
> > > > Apologies if I am sounding angry, but sometimes I just cannot make
> > > out
> > > > what
> > > > you are trying to communicate and then what you say ends up making
> > > me
> > > > wonder
> > > > as to where your sensitivities, logics and brain lie.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > >
> > > > Zainab
> > > >
> > > > On Jan 17, 2008 10:37 PM, chanchal malviya <
> > > chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > It would be great, if I am unsubscribed from this list..
> > > > > I do not want to waste my time with people who cannot see beyond
> > > the
> > > > > screen...
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you all...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > > From: Kulpreet Singh < zapfmann at gmail.com >
> > > > > To: reader-list at sarai.net
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 10:32:42 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Manipuri women coming to stir up Govt.
> > > at
> > > > Delhi
> > > > > - Campaign against Militarization, Impunity and AFSPA 1958
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thursday 17 January 2008 22:27:53 Zainab Bawa wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Way to go Zainab!
> > > > >
> > > > > -kp
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Chanchal,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can you please quote the sources of your information? Otherwise
> > > we can
> > > > > all
> > > > > > cook up facts ad nauseum, to suit our points of view.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanking you in advance,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yours truly,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zainab
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Jan 17, 2008 9:51 PM, chanchal malviya <
> > > chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > The news is correct.. But there is more depth to such news..
> > > > > > > Like the one I am quoting here..
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In Kashmir some Army officials have been court martialed.. you
> > > all
> > > > > know
> > > > > > > this..
> > > > > > > But the real stories has many faces..
> > > > > > > one of them is:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Muslim senior officers had forced junior Hindu officers to
> > > bring
> > > > Hindu
> > > > > > > girls for enjoyment...
> > > > > > > And somehow these juniors ran away and didn't do it.. and they
> > > were
> > > > > court
> > > > > > > martialed..
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So those who defame Indian Army in Kashmir and other places,
> > > must
> > > > also
> > > > > > > try to know the name of officers who had done the crime and
> > > just not
> > > > > > > defame the whole Army..
> > > > > > > For example, we can take the case of who posted this mail...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > > > > From: OISHIK SIRCAR <oishiksircar at gmail.com>
> > > > > > > To: peaceworksdefenders at googlegroups.com ;
> > > > > > > sexualityinstitute2002 at yahoogroups.co.in ; sarai list <
> > > > > > > reader-list at sarai.net >; ILS Across Borders <
> > > > > > > ILS-Across-Borders at googlegroups.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 9:39:40 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Manipuri women coming to stir up Govt.
> > > at
> > > > Delhi
> > > > > -
> > > > > > > Campaign against Militarization, Impunity and AFSPA 1958
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > **
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Campaign against Militarization, Impunity and Armed Forces
> > > Special
> > > > > > > Powers Act *
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *On the Eve of Republic Day *
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *25th January 2008 *
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * *
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On July 15 2004, for the first time in its history, the Indian
> > >
> > > > > > > "democracy" witnessed an unusual mode of protest against its
> > > > > government.
> > > > > > > About a dozen women came out on the street and disrobed
> > > themselves,
> > > > > > > protesting against the
> > > > > > > AFSPA and rape/murder of Thangjam Manorama, in front of an
> > > occupied
> > > > > > > historic
> > > > > > > place, the Kangla Fort in Manipur, (where the 17 th Assam
> > > Rifles
> > > > > > > Battalion is stationed).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The message of the protest was "INDIAN ARMY RAPE US". This
> > > novel
> > > > > > > agitation sparked the awakening of many citizens inside the
> > > country
> > > > as
> > > > > > > well as people
> > > > > > > in other parts of world, on the plight, sufferings and
> > > atrocities on
> > > > > > > Manipur
> > > > > > > people under the military boots.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *These brave and noble women from Manipur are coming to Delhi
> > > to
> > > > stir
> > > > > up
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > claustrophobic Government of India, on the eve of Republic Day
> > > and
> > > > > going
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > continue for a month time. The protest is being organized
> > > against
> > > > the
> > > > > > > Central Government's arrogant behavior, blatant propaganda and
> > >
> > > > > > > insensitivity
> > > > > > > towards the plight of people of Manipur *
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * *
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Indian Government has actively encouraged violence
> > > committed by
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > security forces under the draconian law -- Armed Forces
> > > Special
> > > > Powers
> > > > > > > Act,
> > > > > > > 1958 (AFSPA, 1958), which legitimizes any army personnel to
> > > shoot,
> > > > > kill
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > destroy a person or a property on mere "suspicion". This Act
> > > has
> > > > also
> > > > > > > promoted militarization in the entire North East, where
> > > possibility
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > any
> > > > > > > genuine legal proceedings to take place for justice or
> > > > accountability
> > > > > has
> > > > > > > become an impossibility and use of extra-judicial killings by
> > > > > > > state-promoted
> > > > > > > renegade groups like the SULFA in Assam and Ikhwaanis in
> > > Kashmir
> > > > with
> > > > > > > complete impunity has become endemic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The country is proud to claim itself as the world's largest
> > > > democracy,
> > > > > > > but how it is defining it, is a real question and a mockery,
> > > when
> > > > > there
> > > > > > > is martial law functioning (AFSPA 1958) in North East and J&K
> > > > regions
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > nearly last fifty years.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Friends, this kleptocratic government is a clear and present
> > > danger
> > > > to
> > > > > > > every
> > > > > > > citizen of this country. We need to protest fiercely until the
> > >
> > > > system
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > put
> > > > > > > in place, in order to ensure the security of common citizens.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *We are inviting every citizens of this nation to participate
> > > in the
> > > > > > > campaign to strengthen our long overdue peaceful struggle as
> > > many
> > > > days
> > > > > as
> > > > > > > you would be able to. This is the least we can do to protest
> > > against
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > injustice system which saddens our hearts yet the government
> > > ignores
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > listen our plight. We are confident that  truth will emerge
> > > > victorious
> > > > > > > one day through your esteem support. *
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *                Looking forward for your kind presence. *
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  *Please come and join on the*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Campaign against Militarization, Impunity, and the Armed
> > > Forces
> > > > > Special
> > > > > > > Powers Act. *
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * *
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Date: 25th January 2008*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Place: Jantar Mantar *
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Time: 1:00 pm*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Recommendation for the repeal of AFSPA 1958 from government
> > > > committees
> > > > > > > and international organizations:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ·        1991, UN Human Rights Committee
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ·        2005, Justice Jeevan Reddy Committee
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ·        2006, India UN CEDAW Report
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ·        2007, UN CERD
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ·        2007, Administrative Reform Committee
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Campaign Coordinator
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Onil
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Reachout
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > +91-9818781767
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Email: onilrights at gmail.com , reachout2006 at gmail.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sundara Babu Nagappan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Independent Researcher
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > +91-9311744919
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Email: babuubab at gmail.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sapamcha Kangleipal
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > NE Youth Coordinator
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > +91-9862096539
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Email: kangleipal at yahoo.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Vani Subramanian
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Saheli
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > +91-9891128911
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Email: saheliwomen at hotmail.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kavita Joshi
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Impulse
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > +91-9868888642
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Email: kj.impulse at gmail.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Tanya Mathan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Coordinator, Voluntary Agency Placement Programme (VAPP),
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lady Shri Ram College
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > +91-9891703465
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Email: vapp.lsr at gmail.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *(Esteemed supporters please endorsed your organization name
> > > and
> > > > bring
> > > > > > > your
> > > > > > > organization's name banner on the day of protest) *
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > **
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > **
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > OISHIK SIRCAR
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Scholar in Women's Rights
> > > > > > > Faculty of Law, University of Toronto
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 60 Harbord Street
> > > > > > > Room 016 B
> > > > > > > Toronto, ON M5S 3L1
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > oishiksircar at gmail.com
> > > > > > > oishik.sircar at utoronto.ca
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 416.876.7926
> > > > > > > _________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > >
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> >
> > --
> > faiz
>
>
>


-- 
faiz

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