[Reader-list] Are these humans nationalists?

radhikarajen at vsnl.net radhikarajen at vsnl.net
Sun Jan 20 15:13:36 IST 2008 

Figure matters only if it is 36  -  24  -36  ?   :-)

----- Original Message -----
From: Wali Arifi <waliarifi3 at gmail.com>
Date: Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Are these humans nationalists?
To: Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
Cc: reader-list at sarai.net

> Dear all,
> 
> 
> 
> Last two decades of turbulence in Kashmir have taught us many 
> lessons. One
> being that there is always a tendency to exaggerate figures when 
> it comes to
> human loss.
> 
> 
> 
> But accuracy is always useful, and doesn't reduce the loss. In 
> fact accuracy
> adds to the dignity of those who have suffered the loss. In essence
> multiplying figures is reflective of a tendency to take refuge in 
> propagandaand cloth the truth with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Durrani in his post has said: "….for killing of more than 3000 
> Kashmiripandits. Not to talk of rape and arson against this 
> community."
> 
> 
> I wonder where this figure of "3000" has come from? What is Mr Durrani
> trying to prove or achieve by multiplying the number of killings? 
> Is he
> helping the community by exaggerating the figure?
> 
> 
> 
> According to the Jammu and Kashmir government, 208 Kashmiri 
> pandits were
> killed in the state from 1990 to 2006.
> 
> 
> 
> It has to be understood that multiplying figures is dangerously
> counterproductive for those who call themselves as the champions and
> custodians of the interest of Kashmiri Pandits. Forget about the 
> use of
> words like genocide, holocaust, pogrom, ethnic cleansing and so on...
> 
> 
> 
> Kashmir's history will be written by those who have dreamed of a 'just
> Kashmir'.
> 
> 
> 
> Let it be asked to Mr Durrani... Is he writing history, or trying 
> to create
> it to suite a program that translates 'democracy' into what it has 
> actuallybeen in all practice...* *Majoritarianism.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Wali
> 
> On Jan 19, 2008 11:16 AM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Dear Fazli ,
> >
> > NamaskAr
> >
> > You are right . There is no point in narrating the stories to me 
> . For I
> > have been a victim of Islamic terrorism in Kashmir .
> >
> > If Kashmiri muslims are suffering today, which I do not disagree 
> , it is
> > because of their own stand. They welcomed back the Jihadis from 
> Pakistan> with sweets . They glorified *terrorism*. They did not 
> utter a word when
> > Kashmiri Hindus were killed.
> >
> > Even after so many years they still did not mind giving a 
> rousing rception
> > to terrorists like Bitta Karate who has admitted to selective 
> killings of
> > 40
> > Kashmiri pandits.
> >
> > Fazli , do you still think there is a point telling me stories.
> >
> > God Bless
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Pawan
> >
> > PS : I have some good friends still in Kashmir , and the reason 
> is that
> > they
> > admit to what went wrong and not one who try to distort history.
> >
> >
> > On 1/19/08, gowhar fazli <gowharfazili at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > What has made you believe no one got punished in
> > > Kashmir.  Kashmir is a virtual hell where the whole
> > > Muslim population is under imprisonment with torture
> > > and humiliation 24X7 for the last seventeen years.
> > > You have to be grossly insensitive not to notice
> > > this... despite the fact that migration of Pandits
> > > whether under state patronage or compulsion would not
> > > have been a cake-walk.  In Kashmir, it is not just the
> > > miscreants who may have harmed Pandits or damaged
> > > public property or the intolerant 'fundamentalists'
> > > who are being punished... (though you will find many
> > > more times the Pandit population of such people
> > > rotting in jails, killed without impunity, tortured or
> > > 'disappeared'... )  Punishment in Kashmir is for
> > > everybody without exception (even the stooges of the
> > > state are not safe from itself).
> > >
> > > The biggest worry for you and me are the generations
> > > that are being brought up under these inhuman
> > > conditions while your kids grow up in decent
> > > neighbourhoods (I presume).  With military to kick
> > > them around everyday, you cannot expect them to grow
> > > to love the state or YOU for not caring to change
> > > this.  They will especially hate you for trying to
> > > privilege injustice faced by the group you cling on to
> > > so dearly, while justifying the injustice faced by
> > > those whom you would rather wish dead.
> > >
> > > In the name of militancy and fundamentalism the whole
> > > Kashmiri Muslim population has been successfully
> > > criminalized.  Kashmiri Muslims are not faced with the
> > > choice of being 'patriotic' or 'unpatriotic'.  This
> > > choice has already been made for them by you and the
> > > state.
> > >
> > > I seriously wonder if there is any point in telling
> > > you all this.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > At least 6 years after the Gujarat riot , which
> > > > started after some
> > > > fundamentalists burnt alive scores of Hindu Pilgrims
> > > > returning from Ayodhya
> > > > , few people were convicted.
> > > >
> > > > Compare it with the case of Kashmiri Pandits , even
> > > > after 18 years , not
> > > > even a single person has been convicted in Kashmir
> > > > for killing of more than
> > > > 3000 Kashmiri pandits . Not to talk of rape and
> > > > arson against this
> > > > community.
> > > >
> > > > For that reason that the state is ruled by
> > > > camouflage Islamic fundamentalist
> > > > and Islamic groups are inmajority.
> > > >
> > > > When will the justice be served to Kashmiri Pandits
> > > > ? At least in Modis
> > > > gujarat ....it has been served.....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 1/18/08, S.Fatima <sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Friends
> > > > > Look at these two news items for what's being
> > > > > discussed on this list right now:
> > > > >
> > > > > 12 convicted in Bilkis Bano rape case
> > > > > 18 Jan 2008, 1710 hrs IST,PTI
> > > > > MUMBAI: Twelve persons, including a police
> > > > official,
> > > > > were convicted by a special court here on Friday
> > > > in
> > > > > the Bilkis Bano gang-rape case related to the
> > > > > post-Godhra communal violence in Gujarat.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/12_convicted_in_Bilkis_Bano_rape_case/articleshow/2711484.cms> > > >
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > 'Modi gave us a free run to do whatever we wanted'
> > > > > 26 Oct 2007, 0101 hrs IST,TNN
> > > > >
> > > > > NEW DELHI: "We made a complete rocket launcher
> > > > here...
> > > > > We distributed so many weapons, people were
> > > > shocked.
> > > > > We'd make them here and then test them."
> > > > >
> > > > > Here are some more such shocking 'testimonies':
> > > > >
> > > > > Suresh Richard, an accused in the Naroda Patiya
> > > > > episode in which over 200 Muslims were officially
> > > > > estimated to have been killed, said on camera that
> > > > > Modi visited the locality the same evening,
> > > > February
> > > > > 28, and thanked the perpetrators of the violence
> > > > > saying, "Aap dhanya ho... (You are blessed)."
> > > > >
> > > > > Rajendra Vyas, a senior VHP functionary who was on
> > > > the
> > > > > Sabarmati Express that was set on fire in Godhra,
> > > > > said, "The Muslims had played a one-day match with
> > > > > us... They have given us a target of 60... We have
> > > > to
> > > > > win this match at any cost, so don't stop till you
> > > > > have made 600 runs... Modi gave us a free run to
> > > > do
> > > > > whatever we wanted... The police were with us..."
> > > > >
> > > > > Babu Bajrangi, a Bajrang Dal activist who has been
> > > > in
> > > > > the news for blocking the carnage movie Parzania
> > > > from
> > > > > being screened in the state, revealed that police
> > > > > commissioner P C Pande, who has recently been
> > > > moved
> > > > > out of the DGP's post by the Election Commission,
> > > > had
> > > > > ordered that the 700-800 dead bodies at Naroda
> > > > Patiya
> > > > > be clandestinely picked up and dumped all over
> > > > > Ahmedabad.
> > > > >
> > > > > "The commissioner came that night and said that if
> > > > > there were so many dead at one place, it would
> > > > create
> > > > > trouble for him... After killing them, I felt like
> > > > > Maharana Pratap... We killed at will, turned the
> > > > place
> > > > > into Haldighati."
> > > > >
> > > > > Key witness in the Godhra case, Ranjitsingh Patel,
> > > > a
> > > > > petrol pump employee who deposed that he had sold
> > > > 140
> > > > > litres of petrol to the accused on the eve of the
> > > > > Sabarmati episode, admits that he and his
> > > > colleague
> > > > > were both paid Rs 50,000 each by Noel Parmar, the
> > > > > chief investigating officer.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Noel saheb gave me fifty thousand, showed me a
> > > > > photograph and said I had to identify him." Two
> > > > BJP
> > > > > members, Murli Mulchandani and Kakul Pathak, who
> > > > > claimed to be eyewitnesses to the Godhra attack
> > > > and
> > > > > identified many of the accused, admit they were
> > > > not
> > > > > even at the station that fateful day.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mulchandani said: "I wasn't at the station, I was
> > > > > sleeping at home. But the police put me among the
> > > > > witnesses." Pathak said, "The police gave all the
> > > > > names. None of the eyewitnesses wrote their
> > > > > statements. The police did."
> > > > >
> > > > > Arvind Pandya, the government's counsel in the
> > > > ongoing
> > > > > proceedings before the Nanavati-Shah Commission
> > > > > probing the carnage, said that the accused had
> > > > nothing
> > > > > to fear from either of the retired judges.
> > > > "Nanavati
> > > > > is a clever man... He wants money... Of the two
> > > > > judges, Shah is intelligent... woh anpe wala hai
> > > > (he
> > > > > is our man)... he is sympathetic to us... Nanavati
> > > > is
> > > > > after money."
> > > > >
> > > > > Bharat Bhatt, a public prosecutor, said that he
> > > > was
> > > > > shielding the Hindu accused even as he was
> > > > supposed to
> > > > > be arguing against them.
> > > > >
> > > > > "I tell all the Hindus not to smile when they see
> > > > > me... not to say a word to me. I tell them that I
> > > > will
> > > > > scold them if they do so... Sometimes I deceive
> > > > > them... I scare them but later show my affections
> > > > > too..."
> > > > >
> > > > > In the Gulbarg Society massacre, accused Madan
> > > > Chawal
> > > > > gives a first-hand account of how former Congress
> > > > MP
> > > > > Ehsan Jafri was hacked limb by limb and burned. He
> > > > > says Jafri offered them money in return for his
> > > > life.
> > > > > "We said yes. When he came out, we took the money
> > > > and
> > > > > pounced on him."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >      Download prohibited? No problem. CHAT from
> > > > any browser, without
> > > > > download. Go to
> > > > http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php/
> > > > > _________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, the balance of nature decrees that a super-
> abundance of
> > > dreams is paid for by a growing potential for nightmares.
> > >
> > > Love is an act of endless forgiveness, a tender look which 
> becomes a
> > > habit.
> > >
> > > Peter Ustinov
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
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> > >
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