[Reader-list] Indian Islam, nationhood etc.

[we wi]

I think Krishna Chaitanya is from ISCON. 
   
  MAYA: jo dikhta hai vo actually nahi hai
             jo nahi hai vo dikhta hai
   
  Chanchal forget to say people are categorized UTTAM,MADHYAM AND ADHAM, based on the Trigunas (satva,rajas,tamo ).  So your diet matters to control the Trigunas and hence making of the people.
   
  If you eat vegetables satva guna will develop (BP CONTROL)
  if you eat meat rajo guna will develop(all disorders)
  if you eat salt,chillies,onion , pepper,masala,asafatodea tamo guna will develop(HIGH BP)
   
  I am not just joking but you try with above food on alternate days and check the changes in your body (i am not asking vegetarians to eat non-veg and vice versa)
   
   
  Chanchal,radhika  pl endorse that we are different individuals and don't know each other! 
  otherwise list will still feel the same thing that we are one and the same!!!
  

Krishna Chaithanya <tulunadu at hotmail.com> wrote:
  
It all depends on how you want to feel people and religion 
MAYA was the one I was born into. I had no choice in this matter, like you didn't.
I believe in my Dharma, not in shaving my head and dancing to the rythm of drums and hare hare.

Hope this answer helps you to feel MAYA

KC

> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:01:29 +0500
> From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Indian Islam, nationhood etc.
> To: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> CC: tulunadu at hotmail.com; reader-list at sarai.net
> 
> Hi,
> 
> which shanti and Maya are you talking about, - the one you had as girlfriend during your education or the one you have had after embracing the cult ? Even in hindu way of life, dharma is a means of earning dollars and having princely life with krishna conscious, hope you are not of that type. ? Such have only superficial grasp of Geetha as told by the Lord and get mired in maya of dollars. !
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: chanchal malviya 
> Date: Monday, January 21, 2008 10:54 am
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Indian Islam, nationhood etc.
> To: Krishna Chaithanya , reader-list at sarai.net
> 
> > You are a selfish person... Realizing Shanti only for you...
> > The mantra is far deep than you can even think...
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Krishna Chaithanya 
> > To: reader-list at sarai.net; chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 10:37:06 PM
> > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Indian Islam, nationhood etc.
> > 
> > What I know can not be expressed in words. I feel peace within me 
> > when I Chant OM SHANTHI SHANTHI SHANTHI. 
> > 
> > It appears like you you understand what is OM and why there is 
> > Three Shanthi. But how come there is no sign of peace!
> > 
> > I don't care if any other religion has such slogans in their 
> > religious books. 
> > It doesn't make any difference to my belief and faith in the Supreme.
> > 
> > KC
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:44:33 -0800
> > From: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Indian Islam, nationhood etc.
> > To: tulunadu at hotmail.com
> > 
> > 
> > Do you understand also... what is OM and why is there Three 
> > Shanti... 
> > Do you know any other religion which has such slogans in their 
> > religious books...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Krishna Chaithanya 
> > To: chanchal malviya 
> > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:28:20 PM
> > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Indian Islam, nationhood etc.
> > 
> > 
> > Om Shanthi Shanti Shanti hi
> > 
> > KC
> > 
> > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 04:53:35 -0800
> > From: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Indian Islam, nationhood etc.
> > To: tulunadu at hotmail.com; reader-list at sarai.net
> > 
> > 
> > How many bombs you have thrown..
> > Ask this to them... Not us...
> > We are reacting.. They are acting...
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Krishna Chaithanya 
> > To: reader-list at sarai.net
> > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:19:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Indian Islam, nationhood etc.
> > 
> > 
> > Violence can be stopped only with violent means.Then peace will be 
> > on the society....!?
> > 
> > We bomb them 
> > and they bomb us
> > and we bomb them
> > and they bomb us 
> > together we bomb us
> > then who is left to bomb...?
> > 
> > KC
> > 
> > > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:33:09 +0500
> > > From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net
> > > To: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> > > CC: reader-list at sarai.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Indian Islam, nationhood etc.
> > > 
> > > Hi, true, it for too long hindus have been tolerent leading to a 
> > sarcastic comment that they are cowards, may be Nehru was coward 
> > when India was divided for his greed,may be Krishna menon loved 
> > chinese vaginas more than indian ones, but now it is time that 
> > hindu understood the value of SAMA, Dana, BHEDHA are over, dandam 
> > dashagunam bhaveth. Violence can be stopped only with violent 
> > means.Then peace will be on the society.
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: chanchal malviya 
> > > Date: Sunday, January 20, 2008 7:24 am
> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Indian Islam, nationhood etc.
> > > To: Javed , reader-list at sarai.net
> > > 
> > > > It is time for Hindus to rise now...
> > > > And no dicussion or virtual communities can stop it...
> > > > 
> > > > Swami Vivekanand said - India have enough of religion..
> > > > And it is time now to say this to Christian and Muslims who 
> > force 
> > > > conversions the same thing..
> > > > If Sanskrit is the mother of all languages, Hinduism is the 
> > mother 
> > > > of all Religions... (But two religions have in particular 
> > always 
> > > > learnt to abuse their mother(Hinduism) - Islam and 
> > Christianity)...> > It is time now to stop the nation from 
> > producing more Kashmirs...
> > > > It is time now to stop the non-Independent Religious India...
> > > > 
> > > > So go on my dear friends as much as you like to abuse Hindus..
> > > > It hardly matters now..
> > > > 
> > > > Ramayan is proving to be a reality, Mahabharat is a reality..
> > > > History will also change.. 
> > > > It is Hindus that have taught peace to the world.. but to do 
> > that 
> > > > again, the two attackers have to be checked now..
> > > > People are doing that.. And will do that..
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > From: Javed 
> > > > To: reader-list at sarai.net
> > > > Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 6:00:16 PM
> > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Indian Islam, nationhood etc.
> > > > 
> > > > India's Islam
> > > > by Arun Nair
> > > > 
> > > > Firstly, I must apologise if this article smacks of an impolite
> > > > urgency and prescriptive-ness. I mean not to be arrogant, but as
> > > > someone addressing you on a matter of deep concern to us all, 
> > I felt
> > > > that there was little room for ceremonial apologies before every
> > > > sentence. Also, as an Indian middle-class Hindu who grew up in the
> > > > Babri-masjid 90s, it is easy for me to say some of the things 
> > I say
> > > > here.
> > > > 
> > > > Secondly, I address you, the reader, as an Indian citizen, not 
> > as a
> > > > saintly Kabir or Gandhi preaching love for humanity. Our 
> > collective> > interests are being threatened by communal forces 
> > from within and
> > > > without. WE MUST ACT. We must not merely lament about our 
> > respective> > versions of helplessnesses and others' faults. We 
> > are free today
> > > > because India's greatest generation shook off the ghosts that
> > > > bedevilled them, and took action to protect our interests. I 
> > implore> > you to continue that legacy.
> > > > 
> > > > Thirdly, while I will go into what in my opinion are highly 
> > plausible> > theories of Indian nationhood and nationalism, my 
> > primary aim here is
> > > > not to write any treatise on politics or sociology, but to 
> > protect our
> > > > rights to belong equally to India – our common ancestral land 
> > – as
> > > > Indians, and as free, dignified humans.
> > > > 
> > > > Fourthly, my ideas will be presented largely based on first
> > > > principles, also known as common-sense.
> > > > 
> > > > My thesis is this: India must boldly assert its claim on Islamic
> > > > civilisation in the subcontinent. That is the key to end our 
> > communal> > woes.
> > > > 
> > > > This does not mean that India must become Islamic, or that Indian
> > > > Muslims must be somehow Hinduised. The idea, instead, is to 
> > campaign> > relentlessly for India's Islamic civilisational 
> > authenticity.> > 
> > > > In the Indian psyche, Pakistan stands for Islam. Sadly for us and
> > > > admittedly in a weaker form, Islam is also synonymous with 
> > Pakistan> > and everything Pakistani. This wouldn't have been so 
> > bad if Pakistan
> > > > wasn't, well, un-Indian. We must use every tool at our 
> > disposal as a
> > > > people to destroy the entrenched idea of Pakistani ownership of
> > > > subcontinental Islam from within India. More importantly, this 
> > idea> > must be attacked from without it, because that is where it 
> > originates.> > 
> > > > Our chief weapon to eliminate Islam-Pakistan hyphenation from the
> > > > subcontinent will be an authentic claim: the centre of Islamic
> > > > civilisation in South Asia has always been undivided India, 
> > and after
> > > > partition, India is its natural primary heir. The fact that a few
> > > > million Muslims left India during partition to settle in our 
> > erstwhile> > outlying provinces doesn't change this. Neither does 
> > the fact that the
> > > > Indian people chose a progressive, secular, democratic polity for
> > > > their republic.
> > > > 
> > > > In our minds and in the world's view, subcontinental Islam is 
> > under> > Pakistani occupation. The historical Indo-centric nature of
> > > > subcontinental Islam should be used to throw off this 
> > psychological> > yoke. I urge Indians to rally together once again 
> > as our greatest
> > > > generation did to protect our collective interests as the 
> > people of
> > > > India. I urge friends of India all over the world to join us. 
> > Both in
> > > > terms of geography and spirit, Islam in the subcontinent that
> > > > coexisted and flourished alongside Indic cultures, has always been
> > > > more Indian than Pakistani. If any single country represents
> > > > subcontinental Islam as it historically was, it is India. Not
> > > > Pakistan.
> > > > 
> > > > India's Mughals. India's Qutub Minar, Gol Gumaz, and Taj Mahal.
> > > > India's Kabir. India's Tipu Sultan, Shah Jahan, Akbar, and, 
> > why not,
> > > > Aurangazeb. India's Urdu. India's Ghalib and Khusro. India's 
> > Delhi,> > Lucknow, Mysore, Hyderabad, Malabar, and Agra.
> > > > 
> > > > Good history has to be deliberately written
> > > > 
> > > > The people of India inherited thousands of years of history and
> > > > associated baggage that we didn't really ask for.
> > > > 
> > > > Keep in mind though that history is not a dead object - it is
> > > > unfurling even as you read this. We may not be able to change what
> > > > happened in India 200 years ago. But 200 years from now when 
> > people> > look back, they will see the Indian history that our 
> > generation wrote.
> > > > It becomes then our duty, both as Indians and as sensible 
> > humans, to
> > > > write it well.
> > > > 
> > > > It is a great privilege to deliberately be able to write a 
> > part of
> > > > something grand like the history of India. The first 
> > generation of
> > > > Indians who did a coordinated job of writing our history was 
> > the one
> > > > that won us our independence – our "freedom-generation". They 
> > could> > have attempted to write their Indian chapter any way they 
> > wanted to.
> > > > We could have had a dark, China-style communism, for instance. 
> > But,> > given the Indian context, the freedom-generation chose the 
> > most> > egalitarian, elegant, and humanist theme they could come 
> > up with: a
> > > > secular, liberal, constitutional, democratic republic, that 
> > takes its
> > > > strength from its inherent pluralism and its inheritance of 
> > one of
> > > > mankind's greatest civilisations.
> > > > 
> > > > The freedom-generation's legacy for us is the deliberate and
> > > > intelligent manner in which they forged an Indian national 
> > identity.> > Thanks to their efforts, our nationality is a solid 
> > concept. An Indian
> > > > from Karnataka has a robust nationalistic bond with Indians 
> > say from
> > > > Punjab, Gujarat, Assam, or Delhi. Regardless of what languages we
> > > > speak, we all recognise Marathi, Tamil, Bengali and Telugu as 
> > Indian> > languages – ancestral assets that all Indians 
> > collectively own.
> > > > 
> > > > It is a mistake, however, to think that the nation-building 
> > task they
> > > > began is complete. Indian nationalism is not an idea frozen in 
> > time,> > but an evolving one. We, the successors of India's 
> > freedom-generation,
> > > > must exercise our prerogative to define its finer contours and 
> > bring> > in new ideas to enrich it. Furthermore, we have an 
> > obligation to both
> > > > our founding fathers and India's posterity to do this while 
> > being true
> > > > to our quintessential Indian-ness, the just, egalitarian 
> > nature of our
> > > > country as embodied in our constitution.
> > > > 
> > > > Given that India's situation is not as pressing as it once 
> > was, new
> > > > nationalist leaders – giants of the stature of Mahatma Gandhi, 
> > Khan> > Abdul Ghaffar Khan, Subhash Chandra Bose, Bhagat Singh, 
> > Jawaharlal> > Nehru, Abul Kalam Azad or Vallabhai Patel – may be 
> > difficult to
> > > > emerge. There is no need to though. We succeeded them, and we must
> > > > take this task upon ourselves. The freedom-generation watches 
> > over us
> > > > in the form of our fraternity as Indians which they moulded at 
> > a great
> > > > cost, and our constitution.
> > > > 
> > > > Indian Nationalism - the idea of Indian brotherhood
> > > > 
> > > > Amidst all this noisy consternation of Taslima Nasrin, Babri-
> > masjid,> > BJP-Congress etc., its easy to lose sight of the really 
> > big pictures.
> > > > Consider, for instance, this question: what really is the 
> > essence of
> > > > Indian nationalism? Why do we all feel so closely tied to 
> > India 
> > > > and to
> > > > each other?
> > > > 
> > > > My answer is that, to put it simply, without the land we call 
> > India,> > Indians either have no identity, or very anaemic 
> > identities. All
> > > > Indians share this same curious relation to India.
> > > > When we are born to the same human mother, we are brothers. Our
> > > > constitution formed by our freedom-generation explicitly asserts
> > > > fraternity among the Indian people. Fraternity – brotherhood. 
> > In what
> > > > sense are we brothers?
> > > > 
> > > > Indians are brothers in the sense that the motherland that 
> > birthed my
> > > > identity, also birthed yours. India is our ancestral land, and we
> > > > should be proud of everything associated with it. Everything 
> > in India,
> > > > its religions, its good and its bad, its languages, its 
> > glories and
> > > > struggles, its rivers, its emperors, its heroes and villains,
> > > > everything – is intricately weaved into our consciousnesses of 
> > who we
> > > > are, where we come from, what our place in this world is, and how
> > > > other humans see us. Without that identity, we are crippled.
> > > > 
> > > > Ours is no ordinary brotherhood. Indian people didn't come 
> > into being
> > > > merely a few centuries ago. We are an ancient civilisation, 
> > and what
> > > > we have is a civlisational brotherhood – a bond arising from 
> > all of
> > > > our belonging to the civilisation that unfolded in the same land,
> > > > India. That brotherhood was formally declared through the 
> > constitution> > in 1949, but it existed much before that. Before 
> > our greatest
> > > > generation gave it a concrete wording in the 20th century, it 
> > was well
> > > > moulded in the crucible that is our land, in the fire of the 
> > previous> > several dozen, if not more, centuries.
> > > > 
> > > > Every country of the world has stories that define their national
> > > > essences. What is the most essential feature of Indian 
> > > > nationalism? It
> > > > is our Indian identity – our being tied to India, and our
> > > > civilisational brotherhood to each other in being bonded so. All
> > > > Indians, regardless of their religion or language, has this 
> > bond with
> > > > India and with each other.
> > > > Indians must pause for a while and think why our anthem's 
> > going over
> > > > our landmarks is so emotive. Or why Hindu-Muslim-Sikh-Christian
> > > > insignia are powerful. Or why merely thinking of our history, 
> > or our
> > > > Kerala, Karnataka, Maharashtra, UP, Punjab and Bengal moves 
> > all of us
> > > > equally.
> > > > 
> > > > It's because they remind us of our organic ties to India, and the
> > > > brotherhood that we have with each other. This natural bond 
> > given to
> > > > us by our glorious and at times bloody history is important. 
> > If we
> > > > don't uphold this bond with the ferocity that our greatest 
> > generation> > did, if we don't use it to protect our common 
> > interests, our country
> > > > will remain weak.
> > > > 
> > > > Our country's nature
> > > > 
> > > > What is the nature of our country? What does it mean for 
> > something 
> > > > to be Indian?
> > > > For one, if all of us Indians could get together today and 
> > declare in
> > > > one voice that India stands for certain values, then that 
> > would be an
> > > > authoritative statement. India is what Indians say it is. If, 
> > say, the
> > > > people of the then-Indian civilisation – Hindus, Muslims, 
> > Christians,> > Buddhists, Sikhs, and Jains – had made such a 
> > statement 400 years ago
> > > > and preserved its spirit through centuries, that would have 
> > probably> > have been one of the greatest Indian texts.
> > > > 
> > > > If you will recall, a very similar event actually did happen 
> > in 1949,
> > > > when the founding fathers of the Indian republic adopted, 
> > enacted, and
> > > > gave to ourselves - the sovereign people of India - our 
> > constitution.> > The preamble reads,
> > > > 
> > > > "WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA, having solemnly resolved to 
> > constitute India
> > > > into a SOVEREIGN SOCIALIST SECULAR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC and to 
> > secure> > to all its citizens:
> > > > JUSTICE, social, economic and political;
> > > > LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship;
> > > > EQUALITY of status and of opportunity; and to promote among 
> > them all
> > > > FRATERNITY assuring the dignity of the individual and the 
> > unity and
> > > > integrity of the Nation.
> > > > IN OUR CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY this twenty-sixth day of November, 
> > 1949,> > do HEREBY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS 
> > CONSTITUTION."> > 
> > > > In an absolute sense, the values of justice, liberty, and equality
> > > > have an intuitive appeal to all humans everywhere. However, the
> > > > formidable authority of our constitution comes from the 
> > crushed but
> > > > proud people who paid a very high price for our right to live as
> > > > equals and as dignified humans in India. We must take their 
> > word for
> > > > what India is – they must have known and dreamt quite a bit 
> > about it.
> > > > 
> > > > India's greatest generation definitely realised that divisivism,
> > > > self-doubt, and other demons from our past would haunt the 
> > republic> > they formed. Which is why the constitution is 
> > important. It helps us
> > > > protect our country from ourselves.
> > > > 
> > > > The Constitution. Indian Nationalism. How we will defend India.
> > > > 
> > > > Those who doubt the moral power of our freedom-generation, our
> > > > constitutional ethos, and Indian nationalism need only look at
> > > > Pakistan, which renounced all these in its attempts not to be 
> > seen as
> > > > Indian. Pakistan's leaders, in trying to defend their divisve 
> > national> > philosophy, forced the most horrible bankruptcy on its 
> > people.> > 
> > > > Rather than using Indian nationalism and the constitution to 
> > tackle> > our communal issues, I am appalled at the general trend 
> > to merely
> > > > lament that India is on its way to being declared an non-
> > secular state
> > > > - the hundreds of millions of Indians fully intent on 
> > preventing this
> > > > notwithstanding.
> > > > 
> > > > Pakistan-style Islamism, Ummah-isation of Hinduism, alienation 
> > of 
> > > > Indian Muslims
> > > > 
> > > > There are three major trends in India today that are relevant 
> > to 
> > > > our topic.
> > > > 
> > > > Firstly, India has very serious conflicts of interest with 
> > Pakistan.> > We have gone to war with that country several times. 

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