[Reader-list] Scuffle near Hazratbal; Shabir Shah among 14 injured

Mon Jul 7 17:00:37 IST 2008

Dear Inder Salim

I wish I had understood what point you were trying to make.

What I did notice is your quoting me partially and out of context and then using that to put a spin on my words so that you could indulge in innuendos and make judgements about me.

I was talking of having respect for the 'constant political position' of people whoever it may be. Geelani was an example for the sake of comparing with (what I see as) hypocritical declamations of the "moderate" Hurriyatis (especially Umar Farooq) and their claims of their brand of the "Hurriyat" call being a 'secular' one. It is called 'munaafaqat'.

Just to explain it further, I similarly have respect for the 'constant political position' of Yasin Malik in that he wants (or used to want) the erstwhile princely State of Jammu & Kashmir to be an Independent Country with it's territories freed from both Indian and Pakistani control. Again I say this at the risk of being lynched by my KP brethren. Yasin, in proclaiming his having eschewed violence was foolish enough to admit that he (and/or JKLF) had previous to that indulged in 'killings'

I disagree with both positions, of Geelani and Yasin, but that does not stop me from acknowledging their constancy.

Inder you talk about my 'positions' but you obviously have no idea of what they are. You only presume.

Anyone who seeks to disturb the peace in my country India is for me an enemy of the nation. Anyone who seeks to break-up India or bring in violent divides between it's people is for me an enemy of India. They should be recognised as, dealt with and treated as enemies. Before your make another presumption, the 'recognising', 'dealing with' and 'treating' as enemies neither automatically means nor is suggested by me should be done by repressive means or incarceration or State Violence. 

The affiliations of these 'enemies' are of no importance. They could be from Hurriyat Conference, or JKLF or RSS or VHP or Bajrang Dal or SIMI or any other organisation. 

Kshmendra

--- On Sun, 7/6/08, inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:

From: inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Scuffle near Hazratbal; Shabir Shah among 14 injured
To: reader-list at sarai.net
Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 11:39 PM

Dear Kshmendra

I quote you, "but I have much more respect for the constant political
position of someone like Hurriyati hardliner Syed Ali Shah Geelani"

just read your statment again and remember when Syed Ali Shah Geelani
too said similar about RSS.  He really dislkes anything secular
because a religous stand is logical for both Geelani sahib and for
RSS. anything else is ambigous

now i quote you again,  "It has amused me more to see how easily the
likes of Umar Farooq, Prof Abdul Ghani Bhat, Shabbir Shah (and other
Hurriyat 'moderates') are able to fool people into buying their
'secular' credentials"

just remember when Atal Behari Vajpayee wrote a poem about the sad
demolition of Babri Mosque...The words moistened the eyes of the
naive, but we knew how crocodile weeps... you also know it well

now i know there are positions, well you are within your rights to
hold one ... that is ok

i just met a kashmiri pandit who was demonstrating at jantar mantar
today.... and i sarcastically congratulated about the news  KASHSMIR
PANDITOON NAY TODFOD KI, ( riots by kashmir pandits ) It is perhaps
for the first time i heard about such a news. He understood and
replied quickly... " if we dont resort to thes acts who will listen to
us, we are politically  irrlevant  in the present political
situation.... we need to read these situations quickly, and we do it
from time to time. "

now see how their brother is  the valley do the same things for their
own survial.  for example PDP, who need to something from time to time
to stay in relevant in the volatite politcal games being played in the
valley..... what is so wrong about it  if everything else is not.

and once we are finished with these games.... only then we can being
to talk about ETHICS and MORALS

till then  best

inder salim

>

On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 12:27 AM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Dear Sonia
>
> There is nothing surprising in the religious place Hazrartbal being the
start-point for the 'victory' rally. It only reinforces the evaluation
that the 'victory' was sought by one religion over the other. For those
who achieved the 'victory', what better place to start the celebration
than a Shrine/Mosque.
>
> Our 'secular' commentators may spout various theories and analyses
but those who were a part of that 'victory' were obviously honest about
what they had achieved and in the name of which religion.
>
> Whether it has been the 1931 'bread movement' or the intense
rivalry between the 'sher' (of Sheikh Abdullah) and 'bakra' (of
Maulvi Farooq) or the Hurriyat (freedom/separatist) movement, the pulpits of
both Hazratbal and Jama Masjid have been used as much for political
speeches/sloganeering and calls for separatism as they have been for religious
sermons.
>
> It has always amused me to see Umar Farooq (as just one example among
others) indulge in such political speeches/sloganeering from Jama Masjid, or
visit and seek support from his Political Mecca of OIC (and/or Pakistan) and
yet at the same time hypocritically claim that the "Hurriyat"
movement is a secular one.
>
> It has amused me more to see how easily the likes of Umar Farooq, Prof
Abdul Ghani Bhat, Shabbir Shah (and other Hurriyat 'moderates') are
able to fool people into buying their 'secular' credentials.
>
> My Kashmiri Pandit brethren might lynch me for saying this, but I have
much more respect for the constant political position of someone like Hurriyati
hardliner Syed Ali Shah Geelani (even if I disagree with his arguments) who is
firm in his belief that J&K as Muslim Majority 'territory' should
be a part of Pakistan.
>
> I am sure you did not mean to equate the situations but I found it strange
that you mentioned in the same breath the "peaceful... victory rally"
starting from Hazratbal with "siege of Hazrat Bal in the early '90s or
for that matter the siege of Charar e-Sharif in '95 or
> for that matter the Golden Temple in the '80s".
>
> In all three 'siege' mentioned, there were bands of armed
terrorists holed up inside the three religious places. Some might choose to
call them 'freedom fighters' or "Mujahideen".
>
> Kshmendra
>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 7/5/08, S. Jabbar <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: S. Jabbar <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Scuffle near Hazratbal; Shabir Shah among 14
injured
> To: "Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् "
<mail at shivamvij.com>, "sarai list"
<reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Saturday, July 5, 2008, 1:07 PM
>
> I think you may want to ask why it was necessary to begin a victory rally
> from a religious place and how any of us would have reacted if Advani were
> to embark on another 'victory' rally from Somnath or Ayodhya.
These
> so-called victory rallies will only add fuel to the Jammu-Kashmir/
> Hindu-Muslim conflagration.
>
> Hazrat Bal and the Jama Masjid are not neutral sites and have been
> politically charged ever since the 1930s when the Quit Kashmir movement
was
> launched against the Maharaja.  What must have started off as an equally
> 'peaceful' gathering turned violent and a man was killed.  That
was
> reason
> enough for mass rioting.  You may be aware of the siege of Hazrat Bal in
the
> early '90s or for that matter the siege of Charar e-Sharif in '95
or
> for
> that matter the Golden Temple in the '80s.
>
> The Hurriyat is not unaware that the state cannot risk a religious site
> becoming another site of contestation.  It would try and control what in
all
> likelihood would turn into yet another communally charged and violent
event.
> And yet it decided to go ahead.  The stakes are high and I really
don't
> think anyone is above using religion to further their political ends.
> --sj
>
>
> On 7/5/08 12:43 PM, "Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्"
> <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>
>> This is what happens when you prevent people from addressing
>> peaceful
> gatherings...
>
>
> o o o o
>
>
> Scuffle near Hazratbal; Shabir Shah among
>> 14 injured
>
> Special Correspondent, 5 July
>> 2008
> http://www.hindu.com/2008/07/05/stories/2008070559931300.htm
>
> The clash
>> followed prayers to celebrate the "victory" in the land
transfer
>> issue
>
>
> SRINAGAR: Senior Hurriyat Conference leader Shabir Shah was among
>> 14
> people injured on Friday, following a scuffle between police and
> supporters
>> of separatist leaders after they offered prayers at the
> Hazratbal shrine to
>> celebrate the recent "victory" in the land
> transfer issue.
>
> The call for
>> "Hazratbal Chalo" was given by Syed Ali Geelani, head of
> a faction of the
>> Hurriyat Conference and supported by Mirwaiz Umar
> Farooq, head of another.
>> However, both were placed under house arrest
> by the police. Mr. Shah and other
>> leaders, however, reached Hazratbal
> amid heavy deployment of police and
>> paramilitary CRPF and offered
> prayers besides addressing the people.
>
> Mr. Shah
>> and Ashraf Sehrai, another senior leader denounced the
> government for putting
>> Mr. Geelani and Mr. Mirwaiz under house arrest.
>
> A protester hurls back a tear
>> smoke shell towards the police.
>
> On their way back, Mr. Shabir Shah, Mr.
>> Sehrai, Naeem Khan, Sheikh
> Aziz, Shafi Reshi, Firdous Shah and others led a
>> strong procession,
> which was lathi-charged.
>
> Fourteen people, including Mr.
>> Shabir Shah, were injured. He was
> shifted to the S.K. Institute of Medical
>> Sciences (SKIMS) for
> treatment.
>
> Even as rumours spread that he was critical,
>> Director SKIMS Abdul
> Hamid Zargar told The Hindu that he was stable. Another
>> procession
> taken from Jamia Masjid and led by the head imam, was dispersed
>> by
> police with smoke shells. Many people were arrested. Another
>> Hurriyat
> leader Javed Mir was arrested when he tried to take out a
>> procession
> towards Hazratbal in Khanyar
>> area.
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