[Reader-list] does Modi's non-entry into US mean anything?

[S.Fatima]

Dear Radhika
I don't wish to start yet another unending debate on this, but you certainly have misunderstood me. We are discussing Modi's non-entry into the US and its affects. When you say that I am "encouraging citizens to take law into their hands be barbaric to dispense what you seem and deem it as right" you haven't understood the context of this discussion (although didn't Modi do just that in Gujarat in 2002 - allowing his friends to take law into their hands?) People vote him to power because for years and years he has been polarizing the Gujarati Hindus into one direction. Sadly majority of Indian voters are not mature enough to make intelligent decisions - they follow the wave. That's why it is easy to win Indian elections by whipping up religious sentiments. Even Indira Gandhhi used to do that.

By the way, I would be curious to know if you have an evidence to proof that Indian secularists (such as Teesta) and lawyers fighting for riot-affected Muslims have got funding from Saudi Arabia. Can you provide authentic any link to that.

SF  


--- On Fri, 11/7/08, radhikarajen at vsnl.net <radhikarajen at vsnl.net> wrote:

> From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net <radhikarajen at vsnl.net>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] does Modi's non-entry into US mean anything?
> To: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in
> Cc: "Rashmi Sawhney" <rashmi.sawhney at gmail.com>, reader-list at sarai.net
> Date: Friday, 11 July, 2008, 4:41 PM
> Sadia,
>       what one should do in civilised democratic society as
> citizen of the society. ?
> 
>      As a citizen I can vote for him or vote for another
> candidate. What do you mean by doing some thing, you are
> encouraging citizens to take law into their hands be
> barbaric to dispense what you seem and deem it as right. ?
> Then what is the difference between you and Dawood Ibrahim
> or Al queada chief. ?
> 
>    Freedom means as you are free you have social
> responsibilty as well beyond religion and faith as human,
> it is better you remember that overwhelming citizens have
> voted for the party and its leader to rule the state and
> govern for the assigned term of five years. In democratic
> way, you can vote him out, do not nurse any other ideas as
> you are cause for action and then reaction which can be
> very traumatic for all citizens as violence only begets
> more of it, in the process of blasts, the blasts do not
> recognise the victims religion and faith to strike
> miseries.
> 
>   It is my sincere request to stop this nonsense of action
> and reactions and if possible generate awareness if any bad
> acts done personally by Modi with evidence, educate the
> voter about good governance in democratic system, thus
> expect to be catalyst for change.?
> 
>  Regards.
> 
>   
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "S.Fatima" <sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in>
> Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008 8:55 am
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] does Modi's non-entry into
> US mean anything?
> To: Rashmi Sawhney <rashmi.sawhney at gmail.com>
> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> 
> > Dear Rashmi
> > Its fine if you wish to rest the case here. But I
> still think you 
> > have been only reacting to my most casual and minor
> points (such 
> > as 'smoking out' or the word Gujarati etc.) My
> main/original point 
> > still remains unanswered: Isn't it hypocritical
> that we do nothing 
> > about Modi in India, and have a problem if he travels
> to the US? 
> > And what difference will it make if he can't go to
> the US?
> > Does anyone else have an answer to that?
> > 
> > F
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 9/7/08, Rashmi Sawhney
> <rashmi.sawhney at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Rashmi Sawhney
> <rashmi.sawhney at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] does Modi's
> non-entry into US mean 
> > anything?> To: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in
> > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> > > Date: Wednesday, 9 July, 2008, 10:36 PM
> > > Dera Fatima,
> > > 
> > > Two brief points:
> > > 
> > > 1. There is a measure of desperation in
> suggesting that the
> > > US should take
> > > responsibility for 'smoking out' Modi as
> > > they've been doing with individuals
> > > and nations they see as being problematic around
> the world.
> > > Although,
> > > privately, if they manage to isolate him and do
> this, I
> > > will join in your
> > > celebrations.
> > > 2. I have a fundamental issue with your point
> about whether
> > > Modi's non/entry
> > > is going to affect the business and trade of the
> people of
> > > Gujarat/ of
> > > Gujarati origin.
> > > The view: Gujarati = Hindu =
> pro-Modi/pro-Hindutva is
> > > problematic and
> > > furthers the very image and idea of Gujarat that
> the BJP
> > > have been
> > > projecting under Modi's leadership. There are
> many
> > > Gujaratis who are
> > > Muslims, Jains, Parsis and Christians, so the
> alignment of
> > > a linguistic
> > > community with a religious group is problematic.
> > > 
> > > I will rest my case here,
> > > 
> > > Rashmi
> > > 
> > > On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 5:40 PM, S.Fatima
> > > <sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Dear Rashmi
> > > > I know my analogy was stupid, but I was
> mostly
> > > reacting to the report which
> > > > I quoted about the US State department
> revoking his
> > > visa earlier under the
> > > > Immigration and Nationality Act, "which
> prohibits
> > > foreign officials who are
> > > > responsible for or directly carried out, at
> any time,
> > > particularly severe
> > > > violations of religious freedom from
> obtaining U.S.
> > > visas". Now, why doesn't
> > > > such a law apply in India, why can't we
> punish him
> > > under similar accusations
> > > > here. I am sure the US govt is acting in
> this manner
> > > only on the basis of
> > > > the information provided to it by the Indian
> state.
> > > >
> > > > This is what I can't fathom: we in India
> continue
> > > to accept Modi, vote him
> > > > to power, allow him to do all that business
> of shining
> > > Gujarat, but we have
> > > > a problem if he goes to the US (as you say
> even the
> > > people outside the US
> > > > will be agitated if he enters US). So, why
> aren't
> > > we doing something about
> > > > him while he shines in Gujarat. Why
> doesn't the US
> > > bomb Gujarat to 'smoke
> > > > him' out, the way it does to the others
> it
> > > doesn't like.
> > > >
> > > > I have my doubts if his non-entry is going
> to affect
> > > the business and trade
> > > > of the Gujaratis. On the other hand, the
> rallying for
> > > his non-entry by the
> > > > so-called peace activists only leads to
> further divide
> > > between the NRI
> > > > saffronites and the secularists. The
> saffronites will
> > > get further motivated
> > > > to work against the cause of peace. More
> hate-dollars
> > > will pump into India.
> > > >
> > > > SF
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- On Wed, 9/7/08, Rashmi Sawhney
> > > <rashmi.sawhney at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > From: Rashmi Sawhney
> > > <rashmi.sawhney at gmail.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] does
> Modi's
> > > non-entry into US mean anything?
> > > > > To: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in
> > > > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> > > > > Date: Wednesday, 9 July, 2008, 8:54 PM
> > > >  > Dear Fatima,
> > > > >
> > > > > Your analogy, I must agree with you,
> may probably
> > > be wrong,
> > > > > but is certainly
> > > > > naive and unproductive. A second denial
> of entry
> > > into the
> > > > > US may be seen
> > > > > from within Modi camps as being
> detrimental to
> > > his efforts
> > > > > of furthering the
> > > > > lie about a vibrant Gujarat. There are
> enough
> > > numbers of
> > > > > religious
> > > > > fundamentalists in the Western world
> who support
> > > Modi's
> > > > > Hindutva ideology,
> > > > > who may probably not take to the visa
> refusal
> > > kindly. Had
> > > > > the US granted
> > > > > Modi entry so many anti Modi
> individuals and
> > > organisations
> > > > > around the world,
> > > > > including in India, would be agitaged
> about this
> > > too.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is not a question of whether the
> activists in
> > > the US and
> > > > > NRIs want
> > > > > to demonstrate that their sympathy for
> > > Gujarat's
> > > > > Muslims is more than
> > > > > activists in India - I think that is a
> reductive
> > > approach
> > > > > that defeats the
> > > > > purpose of a collective anti-Modi
> struggle. If
> > > you want to
> > > > > campaign against
> > > > > the USA's discriminatory and
> hypocritic
> > > policies, there
> > > > > are many other
> > > > > widely available issues that you could
> pick on -
> > > issues
> > > > > that affect common
> > > > > people without any clout or power.
> > > > >
> > > > > Most countries have their own
> 'germ-infested
> > > foods'
> > > > > that are rapidly
> > > > > destroying any social fabrics composed
> of
> > > difference -
> > > > > perhaps one could
> > > > > consider the option of deputing
> germs-infested
> > > foods from
> > > > > different
> > > > > societies to other parts of the world
> to see if
> > > they
> > > > > survive under hostile
> > > > > and foreign conditions. Or, if your
> approach to
> > > solving the
> > > > > problem of
> > > > > Gujarat is to 'export' the
> germ-infested
> > > food,
> > > > > please consider throwing it
> > > > > in the sea.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 3:30 PM,
> S.Fatima
> > > > > <sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Please see the report/appeal
> below, about
> > > another
> > > > > effort to stop the
> > > > > > Gujarat CM Narendra Modi from
> entering the
> > > US. While
> > > > > withholding all my
> > > > > > angst against what he allowed to
> happen in
> > > Gujarat in
> > > > > 2002 and the fact that
> > > > > > he shamelessly continues to be
> blind to the
> > > growing
> > > > > hatred against Muslims,
> > > > > > I wonder if the efforts by our
> activist
> > > friends in the
> > > > > US to stop him from
> > > > > > entering that soil mean anything
> other than
> > > a
> > > > > hypocracy. After all, he
> > > > > > continues to live and do what he
> pleases in
> > > > > India/Gujarat, but we won't
> > > > > > allow him in the US... Isn't
> that
> > > ridiculous?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are they trying to teach him a
> lesson, or
> > > punish him
> > > > > through this gesture?
> > > > > > Is his non-entry into the US going
> to badly
> > > affect the
> > > > > Gujaratis' business
> > > > > > and trade (which he is supposed to
> solemnize
> > > in New
> > > > > Jersey)? Not the least,
> > > > > > I think. So what is it then? Is it
> a
> > > symbolic
> > > > > rejection of his leadership?
> > > > > > Or do the NRI and American
> activist want to
> > > show that
> > > > > they care about
> > > > > > Gujarat's Muslims more than
> the
> > > activists in
> > > > > India?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Although this analogy maybe
> completely
> > > wrong, but I
> > > > > can't help think this:
> > > > > > "We won't allow a
> germ-infested
> > > food that is
> > > > > killing thousands in India to
> > > > > > enter the US"....
> > > > > > Other thoughts are welcome.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ==========
> > > > > >
> > > > > > USCIRF Urges Denial of U.S. Visa
> to Gujarat
> > > Chief
> > > > > Minister Narendra Modi
> > > > > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > > > > July 8, 2008
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Contact:  Judith Ingram
> > > > > > Communications Director
> > > > > > (202) 523-3240, ext. 127
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WASHINGTON - The United States
> Commission on
> > > > > International Religious
> > > > > > Freedom urges the U.S. State
> Department to
> > > reaffirm
> > > > > its past decision to
> > > > > > deny a tourist visa to Gujarat
> Chief
> > > Minister Narendra
> > > > > Modi, who has been
> > > > > > invited to attend a conference in
> New Jersey
> > > this
> > > > > August celebrating
> > > > > > Gujarati culture.  Modi was
> previously
> > > denied entrance
> > > > > to the United States
> > > > > > due to his role in riots that
> overtook the
> > > Indian
> > > > > state of Gujarat from
> > > > > > February to May 2002 in which
> reportedly as
> > > many as
> > > > > 2,000 Muslims were
> > > > > > killed, thousands raped, and over
> 200,000
> > > displaced.
> > > > > Numerous reports,
> > > > > > including reports of official
> bodies of the
> > > Government
> > > > > of India, have
> > > > > > documented the role of Modi's
> state
> > > government in
> > > > > the planning and execution
> > > > > > of the violence, and the failure
> to hold
> > > perpetrators
> > > > > accountable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Following Modi's invitation to
> attend
> > > conferences
> > > > > in the U.S. in 2005, the
> > > > > > Commission successfully urged the
> State
> > > Department to
> > > > > revoke Modi's U.S.
> > > > > > tourist visa.  Despite pressure
> from the
> > > Indian
> > > > > government, the State
> > > > > > Department revoked his visa under
> the
> > > Immigration and
> > > > > Nationality Act (INA),
> > > > > > which prohibits foreign government
> officials
> > > who are
> > > > > "responsible for or
> > > > > > directly carried out, at any time,
> > > particularly severe
> > > > > violations of
> > > > > > religious freedom" from
> obtaining U.S.
> > > visas.
> > > > > This section was added to the
> > > > > > INA by the International Religious
> Freedom
> > > Act of
> > > > > 1998. The Commission once
> > > > > > again urges the State Department
> to announce
> > > > > Modi's ineligibility for a visa
> > > > > > under the terms of the INA.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "We have not seen changes
> that would
> > > warrant a
> > > > > policy reversal," said
> > > > > > Commission Chair Felice D. Gaer.
> "As
> > > official
> > > > > bodies of the government of
> > > > > > India have found, Narendra Modi is
> culpable
> > > for the
> > > > > egregious and systematic
> > > > > > human rights abuses wrought
> against
> > > thousands of
> > > > > India's Muslims. Mr. Modi
> > > > > > must demonstrate to the State
> Department and
> > > to the
> > > > > American people why
> > > > > > he-as a person found to have aided
> and
> > > abetted gross
> > > > > violations of human
> > > > > > rights, including religious
> freedom-should
> > > now be
> > > > > eligible for a tourist
> > > > > > visa.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Following the riots in 2002,
> India's
> > > National
> > > > > Human Rights Commission
> > > > > > issued a report that pointed to
> the role of
> > > Modi's
> > > > > government in the
> > > > > > systematic murder of Muslims and
> the
> > > calculated
> > > > > destruction of Muslim homes
> > > > > > and businesses. In 2003, the
> Indian central
> > > government
> > > > > found corruption and
> > > > > > anti-Muslim bias to be so
> pervasive in the
> > > Gujarat
> > > > > judiciary that riot cases
>> > > > > were shifted for trial to the
> neighboring
> > > state of
> > > > > Maharashtra.  Despite
> > > > > > this action, the lack of justice
> for victims
> > > remains a
> > > > > serious concern, as
> > > > > > there have been very few court
> convictions
> > > in the six
> > > > > years since the
> > > > > > religion-based riots. In 2007, a
> series of
> > > articles in
> > > > > the Indian
> > > > > > publication Tehelka documented
> police
> > > officers and
> > > > > government officials on
> > > > > > audio and videotape confessing
> that they
> > > facilitated
> > > > > the violence, at times
> > > > > > at the direct behest of Modi.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The inaction of
> Gujarat's
> > > government and
> > > > > police force in the face of
> > > > > > severe violence against religious
> minorities
> > > is an
> > > > > inexcusable abuse of
> > > > > > international human rights
> > > obligations," Gaer
> > > > > said.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      Unlimited freedom, unlimited
> storage.
> > > Get it now,
> > > > > on
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> _________________________________________
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