[Reader-list] Farewell to our Humid Weimar

[radhikarajen at vsnl.net]

Tapas,
     thank you for clarity of thoughts and explanations.

 Now about the name and gender, radhikarajen is expression of thoughts which the feel is good for citizens in the democratic life, thoughts have no gender, they are thoughts for all, may be gender specific thoughts to make the society aware of the miseries of a gender specific issue. But thoughts as such are only thoughts, if they are worthwhile they gain currency, make all citizens , male or female to use their intellect to ponder over, that is power of thoughts. If the thoughts have no substance, the retaliation is likes of shivams, responses, or sermons of some like Prakash who will try to impose his thoughts but fails.!

 Regards. 

----- Original Message -----
From: Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
Date: Monday, July 14, 2008 5:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Farewell to our Humid Weimar
To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>

> Rajen,
> 
> I can see that my explanation needs its own explanation, because 
> it has 
>  added to the confusion I had suspected the original post would 
> create.
> When I said I must have been mixed up, I was not talking about the 
> BJP 
> and CPI(M) opposing the nuclear deal. I was referring to that 
> weird 
> conclusion I had drawn, that the anti-nukes movement needs to 
> press 
> India to denuclearise, and at the same time encourage it to keep 
> making 
> bombs. By the same logic, environmentalists need to press India to 
> reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and at the same time encourage it 
> to 
> increase these emissions. But these conclusions cannot be true 
> according 
> to the law of noncontradiction. Therefore, there must be a flaw in 
> my 
> reasoning somewhere. I was asking for help in finding that flaw.
> 
> I have not taken any stand either supporting or opposing the deal 
> as 
> such, from the point of view of nuclear nationalism, because (a) I 
> have 
> not studied the implications of the deal, and (b) I am suspicious 
> of 
> nationalism as such. Leaving aside theoretical issues, one can see 
> what 
> enormous harm it has done in the hands of some famous people - or 
> infamous, depending on how you look at it.
> 
> I am not very familiar with theoretical arguments for and against 
> nationalism and do not have the time to read up at this moment, 
> because 
> I am trying hard to complete a complicated project on a tight 
> schedule, 
> and I am already behind. But, unfortunately, I get drawn into 
> these 
> discussions - and end up confusing people in my hurry - when I see 
> funny 
> or annoying things. Funny: Shivan threatening to throw his 
> keyboard at 
> you in the Amarnath Land Issue thead. Annoying: Prakash Ray acting 
> like 
> he is addressing an SFI meeting instead of engagig in reasoned 
> discussions.
> Anyway, if I was not speaking for or against the deal, what was I 
> talking about? I was speaking from a third point of view - that of 
> someone who wants the whole world to denuclearise - USA, China, 
> Russia, 
> India, Pakistan, Israel, Iran, etc. Denuclearise not just in the 
> usual 
> military sense but also in the "peaceful purposes" sense. I had 
> expressed this view my post of July 2, in the "Open letter to the 
> prime 
> minister of India to scrap the Indo US nuclear Deal" thread. 
> Please take 
> a look at that post if you want to see my reasons for taking this 
> stand.
> From that point of view, I see our nuclear nationalism as a play 
> of 
> opposites - the CPI(M)'s and BJP's opposing ideologies, which feed 
> on 
> each other.
> 
> Hope I have not created even more confusion now!
> 
> Tapas
> 
> PS: From now on, for some time, I shall address you as Rajen, 
> which is 
> the masculine-sounding part of your name. That's because I do not 
> know 
> if you are male or female. I had mentioned this doubt in my first 
> in the 
> "Amaranth Land Issue" thread. Another list member later told me, 
> offlist, that he was convinced you are male. Since we can't be 
> sure, I 
> think it's only fair to give the other part of your name some 
> promnence 
> for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote:
> > Tapas, 
> > 
> >  let me assure you there is nothing wrong in your thought 
> process as to left and BJP voting against the UPA on nuclear 
> "deal", for it is quite clear that this "deal" is not in the 
> national interest. For left as you rightly feel that America is 
> the bully, in the comity of nations which has leaders like Bush, 
> who maintain that you are with us or you are enemy of ours. PM 
> Manmohan Singh who was with Bush with his economics of disaster, 
> is more dangersous than the "communal" BJP as he has only his 
> dishonest economic theories of fudging figures of wholesale price 
> index with a planning commission  latchey of his Monteksingh who 
> is known for his silver tongue to please the politicians and stay 
> in power when he should have ben sent to mental asylum for his 
> policies of exclusive growth, when his mentor talks of inclusive 
> growth. Loans availed from world bank and ADB have been 
> consistently misused to enrich the hangers on and sycophants in 
> awarding contracts, the ministers in UPA ha
> ve
> >  amassed wealth which will be shame on the nation for future 
> generations to be concerned about. As Raja as minister of telecom 
> sells spectrum to his cronies for political considerations, 
> national exchequer is loosing billion crores, as minister of 
> surface transport, diverts money to his contractor funds, the 
> highways are looting points without repairs and maintainanace, 
> kafan chori is nothing compared to the loot that is now rampant in 
> UPA rule.
> >   The very nuclear deal is a deal to get perpetual kickbacks for 
> triliion dollars as the contracts for purchase have to vetted in 
> Washington with cartel selling uranium. When deal is personal 
> interest of a Mr. Honest for personal gains of a family, how it 
> can be in national interest.?
> > 
> >   Regards.
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
> > Date: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:52 am
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Farewell to our Humid Weimar
> > To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > 
> >> PS to my last post, which I have quoted below this one:
> >>
> >> I should have explained that the unity of opposites I was 
> talking 
> >> about, 
> >> is the opposition's stand on the agreement and the nuclear 
> weapons 
> >> issue 
> >> in general, which is based on two opposing views of global 
> >> politics. 
> >> CPI(M) looks at the USA as the main enemy, not China, which in 
> its 
> >> eyes 
> >> is a good, friendly dada (big brother of the neighbourhood for 
> >> those who 
> >> don't know Bengali or Hindi). BJP, on the other hand, looks at 
> >> China and 
> >> Pakistan as enemies, and the USA as a friendly giant, if not 
> quite 
> >> a 
> >> gentle one.
> >>
> >> One other thing. It just occurred to me that those who want to 
> >> abolish 
> >> nuclear weapons everywhere, may need to do two contradictory 
> >> things at 
> >> one and the same time. I mean they need to put pressure on 
> India 
> >> to 
> >> denuclearise, of course. But for global denuking, they need to 
> >> support 
> >> India's nuclear weapons programme. I know this sounds absurd, 
> but 
> >> here's 
> >> the logic: If India keeps making bombs, pointing out that it's 
> >> entitled 
> >> to that if the big ones can have huge stockpiles, then people 
> in 
> >> those 
> >> countries will increase pressure on their governments to 
> >> denuclearise. 
> >> Because if those countries do that, India and others will not 
> have 
> >> that 
> >> excuse or reason (depending how one looks at it). Same goes for 
> >> nuclear 
> >> power, greenhouse emissions, etc.
> >>
> >> I know my brain is probably in a tangle and I should "take a 
> >> flight out 
> >> of town" (Mayall?) but don't know where exactly that tangle is, 
> >> and 
> >> can't afford to take that flight right now. So, I would 
> appreciate 
> >> it if 
> >> someone could help me get it untangled.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -------- Original Message --------
> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Farewell to our Humid Weimar
> >> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 07:59:53 -0400
> >> From: Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
> >> To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> >>
> >> prakash ray wrote:
> >>> Their belief of the Left and BJP coming together is 
> speculative and
> >>> based on a report appeared in Times Now website.
> >> Or they might have fallen prey to the titillations of Marxist
> >> dialectical reasoning - I'm talking about the thing called 
> "unity of
> >> opposites". But like shy fourteen-year-olds they only love her 
> >> from a
> >> distance, don't know her at all! That's why they don't know 
> that this
> >> thing called dialectics works for everything and everyone, 
> except 
> >> for a
> >> certain party of the Indian left, which transcends everything and
> >> everyone ...  like God with a capital G. Sounds also like American
> >> exceptionalism ... sorry, I have put my foot in my mouth again! 
> I 
> >> mean,I have suggested that this epitome of left politics thinks 
> >> like Uncle
> >> Sam, the dirty old man! Anyway, that's something the bearded 
> old man
> >> didn't see, or foresee, because he lived so long ago. I mean 
> not 
> >> the old
> >> man in a stars-and-stripes hat, sporting a goatee kind of thing 
> >> ... but
> >> the other one, with a full beard and no hat. Looks like there 
> was no
> >> place for any kind of God in his way of thinking, but he was wrong,
> >> obviously. His ghost must see it now, because it must be as 
> >> intelligentas he was, but it doesn't have access to the 
> internet, 
> >> so can't email an
> >> addendum or correction to his publishers ... these days, with no
> >> copyright any more, there are too many of them anyway. So it 
> falls to
> >> that transcendent entity of our time, who/which resides in "party
> >> offices", to correct him in light of objective conditions in India,
> >> because, through its extrasensory link with the old man's 
> ghost, it
> >> knows what that ghost is thinking now.
> >>
> >> It's a scandal that Shuddha and other liberated ones seem to be 
> >> readingmore than newspapers and the words of our contemporary 
> God, 
> >> who is
> >> actually Indian and lives in the "party office"!
> >>
> >> Tapas
> >>
> >> _________________________________________
> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >> Critiques & Collaborations
> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net 
> with 
> >> subscribe in the subject header.
> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-
> >> list 
> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net 
> with subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-
> list 
> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with 
> subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-
> list 
> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>