[Reader-list] Kashmiri 'bandits' should .... return to theirancestral home - Washington declaration

Fri Jul 18 16:47:57 IST 2008

Shivam's query, why should pandits have separate homeland. ?
    The answer is straight forward, where any commune is hounded with threats and killings should they not aspire for a safe place to live. ?

  Still, it is tolerent hindu who is merging in the society with all other communes inspite of best efforts by "secular" media highlighting the plights of pampered muslim"" victims" at the drop of a hat, a extortionist, a killer if apprehended by law keepers, prominent MPs will phone to go "soft" on such arrests, as the votes would suffer.

   It may be worthwhile to mention here , now, karnataka chief minister in his third budget, but first as BJP CM has taken care of all the sections of the society, no special funds on faith or religion based needs, but issue based needs irrespective of faith and caste has been given priority, let us hope the implementation will also be good and impartial, when each woman gets medicare and help in pregnancy and delivery, each child gets conveyance and books and educaid, each farmer gets assistance irrespective of his caste and faith, support prices for agriculture produce, thus helping the farmer out of the clutches of money lenders.

  Regards.

----- Original Message -----
From: Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <mail at shivamvij.com>
Date: Friday, July 18, 2008 4:00 pm
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri 'bandits' should .... return to theirancestral home - Washington declaration
To: Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
Cc: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>

> Dear Pawan,
> 
> Many thanks for your reply, although it was directed at Kshmendra, who
> has surprisingly not replied so far. Sometimes I wonder whether
> Kshmendra exists at all or if he is elusive like the solution to the
> Kashmir dispute.
> 
> > Regarding the 16000 crore package , the finer things
> > about the package is not known to many people and
> > most of the media just caught up with the headlines.
> > We may discuss the 16000 crore package sometime else.
> 
> The details have indeed come out:
> http://www.greaterkashmir.com/full_story.asp?Date=26_4_2008&ItemID=51&cat=1
> 
> Your attempt to brush this away makes me wonder even more: now when
> the government is paying to share substantial costs to return to the
> Valley, now that militancy is at its lowest, why don't you return?
> More details about how the package would be operationalised are
> immaterial because various Pandit leaders have rejected the very idea
> outright.
> 
> > When you quote that many Kashmiri hindu businessman spend 6
> > months in Kashmir , i may not disagree that the few people do.
> > I am sure you know the percentage of Kashmiri
> > Hindu businessmen . Kindly share it with rest of the group.
> > My idea is that it is less than 1%.
> 
> Well, I met some such and was told about them. But the point is that
> if it is safe for some to live for six months, why is it unsafe for
> others to live for twelve months? You can say that a certain district
> is still unsafe, you arre afraid, but why can't those in Srinagar want
> to return.
> 
> One point you haven't answered is: WHY WOULD SOMEONE WHO HAS SOLD HIS
> PROPERTY RETURN? I am told that 7 in 10 migrants have sold their
> properties and have thus given up their stake in the valley -
> something that the Pandits who refused to migrate are pained about.
> What are the reasons for selling property?
> 
> > where they are welcome as tourist
> > but not as permanent residents
> 
> This is completely untrue. The local population is in fact guilty that
> the Pandits were kicked out in the first place, and the 'separatists'
> regret it even more because the Indian government used the plight of
> the Pandits as a scoring point against the separatists.
> 
> (For the same reason not a single yatri was attacked, and in fact
> Muslims held langars in Srinagar, during nine days of strike,
> agitation and CRPF firing in the Valley. It was not so much an act of
> charity but a politically calculated act of restraint.)
> 
> > Also once bitten is twice shy , and Kashmiri
> > Hindus have been bitten more than 8 times in last 1000 years .
> 
> And the Pandits have been migrating for ages. In my city, Lucknow,
> they have had a rich history, as also in Delhi. Not all Pandits are
> refugees, and not all pandit refugees live / lived in camps - somehow
> the discourse on pandits have stereotyped a hardworking, literate,
> upwardly mobile community as refugees and  nothing else.
> 
> > This time the return has to be on terms of Kashmiri Hindus.
> > And one of the term is a separate homeland with a
> > full flow of Indian constitution.
> 
> Pandits did not leave Kashmir in protest of the J&K constitution. In
> 1989 Pandits did not say, "Extend Indian Constitution to Kashmir or
> we'll leave." They left because of threats of violence and if the
> threats of violence have been replaced by calls for return and
> assurances of safety, why don't they return? And most refugees 
> went to
> nearby Jammu where the 'full flow' of the Indian Constitution applies
> as much as it does in Sopore. There were also Pandits displaced within
> the valley many of whom have accepted a rehabilitation package from
> the J&K government.
> 
> Why should Pandits have a separate homeland? And if that is what they
> want, why shouldn't Kashmir have independence from India? This seems
> to be going in the logic of the Partition of India. The kashmir issue
> is an unsettled sore thumb of the partition.
> 
> The Pandits were and are a part of the state of Jammu and Kashmir
> which had independence for three months, which is the only state to
> have its own flag, its own Constitution, rules debarring outsiders
> from buying land. It has 28 vacant seats for PoK but this logic is not
> extended to the Parliament of India. J&K has a UN observer 
> mission, it
> has an LoC rather than an international border - in short, even the
> Constitution of India indirectly admits that kashmir is a disputed
> territory.
> 
> Now you can demand a separate homeland for Pandits or demand whatever
> whether you are living in Anantnag or Amsterdam. But, again: that is
> not why you left Kashmir. You left because of killings and threats,
> and now that they are no more, why don;t you return? And cosnidering
> you have sold your land, do you even want to return? Would my dear
> friend ARK leave Ramjas College and go to Kashmir University - or the
> Vaishnu Devi university or the proposed Sharda Peeth for that matter?
> If 2500 people who are still there and who never migrated, can live
> there, why can't you?
> 
> And Kashmir has something stronger than the 'full flow' of the Indian
> Constitution. It has the Indian army, BSF, CRPF at every nook and
> corner.
> 
> best
> shivam
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Pawan Durani 
> <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Shivam ,
> >
> > I appreciate your curiosity.
> >
> > Regarding the 16000 crore package , the finer things about the 
> package is not known to many people and most of the media just 
> caught up with the headlines. We may discuss the 16000 crore 
> package sometime else.
> >
> > When you quote that many Kashmiri hindu businessman spend 6 
> months in Kashmir , i may not disagree that the few people do. I 
> am sure you know the percentage of Kashmiri Hindu businessmen . 
> Kindly share it with rest of the group. My idea is that it is less 
> than 1%.So if less than 1% Kashmiri Hindus visit Kashmir , where 
> they are welcome as tourist but not as permanent residents , that 
> should not be a quoting figure for normalcy.
> >
> > Also once bitten is twice shy , and Kashmiri Hindus have been 
> bitten more than 8 times in last 1000 years . This time the return 
> has to be on terms of Kashmiri Hindus.And one of the term is a 
> separate homeland with a full flow of Indian constitution.
> >
> > For Kashmiri Hindus , the political reasons do not make any 
> reason for their non returning . They don't have a representative 
> in assembly or the national parliament. The reason has everything 
> to what they had witnessed sometimes back , which made them run 
> away to save lives and honour.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Pawan Durani
> >
> >
> > On 7/17/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> While a typo can be ignored, the question is worth asking: what 
> prevents>> pandits from being 'faciliated' to return? Militancy 
> has declined, nobody is
> >> holding a gun to Pandits' temples and quita  few happily 
> (especially>> businessmen) are spending six months in the Valley 
> and six in Delhi. But
> >> many. Why has the package of Rs. 16,000 crores been rejected? 
> Do Pandits
> >> even want to reurn, considering 70% have sold their land back 
> home? And why
> >> don't they want to return, considering they can buy land? Is it 
> political>> reasons rather than safety? Is is that many non-Jammu 
> migrants are well
> >> settled in Delhi, Pune, Bangalore, New York? Is it that 
> returning would mean
> >> giving up the political uses of victimhood and let 
> 'separatists' say, "Look,
> >> even the Pandits are back." I am not making these allegations 
> but asking
> >> questions. Like all communities the Pandits are a divided 
> community.>> Kshmendra Kaul does not represent them all. Everyone 
> has different reasons
> >> and different circumstances.
> >>
> >> best
> >> shivam
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7/16/08, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > A "International Kashmir Peace Conference" was held 
> Washington D.C,
> >> > 14th-15th July. It adopted the "Washington Declaration".
> >> >
> >> > The website of "Association of Humanitarian Lawyers", one of 
> the sponsors
> >> > of the Conference, furnishes the text of the "Declaration"
> >> >
> >> > Point 8 in it reads "The Conference calls for protection of 
> all minorities.
> >> > All the displaced persons including Kashmiri bandits should 
> be facilitated
> >> > to return to their ancestral home."
> >> >
> >> > http://www.humanlaw.org/kashmirstatement.html
> >> >
> >> > Did not know that "bandits" had been displaced out of 
> Kashmir. At least
> >> > they are being called 'displaced' and not 'migrants'
> >> >
> >> > KK
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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