[Reader-list] SOME SPLENDID SUNS - The Hamid Karzai interview

[inder salim]

dear kshmendra and dear all,

 I wont use the word ' escapist' but we all know how to escape, the
escape route is known to our existential reality more than to our
intellect. you will agree perhpas, i really dont know if you cleverly
escape the point which i made or you dont want to connect with
that...i dont  know.... you have enough craft to escape, all of us
have in our own respective way....

forget about the quote, there is a art poster which reads  WHO WILL
WRITE THE HISTORY OF TEARS. the image underneath the text shows a
mouth open , crying in anguish,  it is an image and therefore,
silence.

i am quite intersted in silences, particularly those which are about
pain, the universal pain, which affects all of us. all i said in my
previous mail 'that If the issue of brutality on innocent masses is
talked without prejudice' .

 afterall what is wrong with this statement?

as i said we know our escape routes, quite well, it works, until we
are caught beyond our calculations.

now i quote again, you might have read:

Pastor Martin Niemotlier

When the Nazis came for the Communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a Communist.

When they locked up the Social Democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a Social Democrat.

When they came for the Trade Unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Trade Unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

dear kshmendra, i got a desperate call from kashmiri mother, whose son
is an artist in bangalore doing mfa, after the recent blasts, he had
no choice but to run for safety, paranoid but not for nothing...
kashmiri muslims are now marked, but who is there to blame in the
first palce, if not indian state who failed to address the legitimate
kashmiri issue....what this kashmiri artist should do ? who will speak
on his behalf in india as and when there is a blast in india... now
you see how his escape route to kashmir is existential...

now the situation is such that everything is in doubt, people in
kashmir believe that wandhama, chattisingpora or even chari-sharif
incidents are masterminded by indian state, now how to clear the
confusion even if it is untrue. it is like a game of chess which is
won by clever moves rather than force on ground, and if you feel on
that account india is winning in kashmir, you will escape the fact,
this time uncessfully

coming back to interview with hamid karzai,
is this really unnatural to hate amercia in afganistan, had amitab
matoo asked the president of afganistan that why americans  trained
mujaheedeen against russians he would really shot down his hopes for a
getting a big wig to interview in future....the question that why are
those talibans now terrorists would have rattled him . There are
ironies in politics, you know well,  we will only burn our fingers if
we tend to play those games, unless you become one of them, on both
the sides you know how it stinks.....

i remember,when bill clinton visited india, and a friend of mine
managed to sit in the audience of an open
TV interview, but to his  surprise he told me that we  were strictly
WARNED not to ask any question about Lewinsky....so the TV channel
ensured that they dont deviate the offical line.

 now if we ask amitab matoo the question that why he did not ask hamid
karzai the question of american war in iraq or even their role in
pakistan in relation with ISI, or many other muddly deals, he will
manage to escape with a crafty answer like you did....

well if you dont see any love in my word love

i will say mohobat.

and i quote jigar ( if i remember it accurately )

unka kaam hai ahlay siyasat woh janay, mara kaam hai mohobat jahan pohanchay.

( their job is to play games in politics, my job is talk about love, endlessly)

so love
is



On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Inder Salim
>
>
>
> Your comments are better addressed to Murtaza Shibli. He brought in the 'brutality scale' and the 'scale of brutality' of different personalities. You did not notice but I refused to enter into that discussion.
>
>
>
> Similarly with you, I will not enter into a discussion about particular individuals selectively chosen for commenting upon.
>
>
>
> I must also admit that I am extremely limited in my capabilities of being able to have a meaningful discussion with many individuals. I find it impossible to express myself in a "mutiple tracks of thought" environment. I envy those who can.
>
>
>
> The Godard quote made absolutely no sense to me. My limitation again.
>
>
>
> Kshmendra
>
>
>
> PS: You sign off with "with love". I wish I could get the slightest feel of it in your words. Must yet again be my limitation.
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 7/30/08, inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] SOME SPLENDID SUNS - The Hamid Karzai interview
> To: reader-list at sarai.net
> Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 7:34 PM
>
> Dear Sshmendra,
>
> To exercise brutality is part of power structure, we all know, it is often
> implict, but we tend to discuss its explicty form only,
> perhpas,  because that suits us to take sides easily, but we are likely to
> fall in the trap.... so we all need to watch our words...
>
> YOU will agree with me that mr. Jagmohan, ex governver, is an RSS man.... i
> wonder why on earth he banned sheep slaughter in kashmir on ashtamis.   that
> was the most unfortunate provocation , and Nisar Qazi in anantnag  responded
> appropriately by slaying sheeps openly on ashtamis, and the stupid governer
> sahib could not do anything but watch......
>
> then, Why on earth Jagmohan ordered firing on the masses in 1990 for which
> he is criticized by each and every kashmiri,
>
>  imagine if a person like mAHATMA gANdhi was there incharge, would he order
> such a firing on innocent gathering....of whatever nature... and if we
> dismiss gandhi, and use him only on currency notes, then it is the same case
> of
>
> Jab chaaha nazron mein liya, aur jab chaaha nazarandaaz kiya. Ye kaisa
> zulm? (At times you choose to pay heed to me and at times you choose to
> ignore me. Why this cruelty?
>
> although i dont agree with the popular theory that jagmohan masterminded the
> exodus of kashmiri pandits,  but i would like to see him tried in
> international court of justice for ordering such a massacre....
>
> and immmediately after that,we need to talk about what india has lost in
> kashmir , a permenant loss of face, and gained what? the name of a
> opressor...
>
> coming back to interview, and the brutal afgan rule in kashmir...  i
> remember,
> #the line  by JL Godard, the french film maker....
>
> THE CROSS OF CHRISTIANS IS   ON THE SHOULDERS OF JEWS,
> , AND THE CROSS OF JEWS IS ON THE SHOULDERS OF PALESTENINES.
>
> i truly wish, that the issue of brutality on innocent masses is talked
> without prejudice....that way we can even talk about the brutality against
> kashmiri pandits in kashmir 1990, or any other kind of violence in the
> world.... after all what we finally do with our imposed identieis...they
> finally dissolve, and what is lasting in this world, something which gandhi
> believed in,,, ...
>
>  i am not a absolute admirer of gandhi , but what he achieved will pass the
> test of time,  and what jagmohan ad the afgan ruler did in kashmir will not,
> ...
>
>
>
> with love
>
> inder salim
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Kashmir Affairs
> <kashaffairs at yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
>
> > Kshmendra,
> > sorry don't have time for discussions rite now....
> > can't promise but hope to further elaborate at some time in future.
> > cheers,
> > murtaza
> >
> > --- On Wed, 30/7/08, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] SOME SPLENDID SUNS - The Hamid Karzai interview
> > To: , kashaffairs at yahoo.co.uk
> > Date: Wednesday, 30 July, 2008, 11:55 AM
> >
> > Shibli Sahib
> >
> > Jab chaaha nazron mein liya, aur jab chaaha nazarandaaz kiya. Ye kaisa
> > zulm? (At times you choose to pay heed to me and at times you choose to
> > ignore me. Why this cruelty?
> >
> > What happened to my enquiries about the dimensions of "Open Borders /
> Joint
> > Control of Kashmir"?
> >
> > I will not provide my list of or ratings for those who deserve to be
> > included in the 'brutality scale', but yes, it is an interesting
> interview
> > of Karzai.
> >
> > Take care
> >
> > Kshmendra
> >
> > --- On Wed, 7/30/08, Kashmir Affairs <kashaffairs at yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> > From: Kashmir Affairs <kashaffairs at yahoo.co.uk>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] SOME SPLENDID SUNS - The Hamid Karzai interview
> > To: reader-list at sarai.net
> > Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 3:15 PM
> >
> > wonderful. Thanks for sharing this.
> > Afghan rule is one of the darkest rules in Kashmir. First being the Sikh
> > rule.
> > Kakar Khan, the Afghan governor was the most brutal - he is even said to
> > have
> > bit ear of a corpse. Jagmohan Malhotra - the governor in 1990s was likened
> > with
> > Kakar Khan by the Kashmiri newspapers for his brutality.
> >
> > Murtaza Shibli
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 30/7/08, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [Reader-list] SOME SPLENDID SUNS - The Hamid Karzai interview
> > To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Wednesday, 30 July, 2008, 9:58 AM
> >
> > This interview has apparently been published in 'Sakaal IGA'
> (India and
> > Global Affairs) magazine http://www.igamag.com/milestones.html
> >
> > I received it titled with "Afghanistan had a period of very bad rule
> in
> > Kashmir" quote of Karzai.
> >
> > Kshmendra
> >
> >
> >
> > Afghanistan had a period of very bad rule in Kashmir
> >
> > (The interview was originally published in India and Global Affairs
> > Magazine)
> >
> > There are few leaders in the world that that have encountered threats to
> > their
> > life almost every single day of their tenure. Even in the recent past, the
> > President of Afghanistan,   Hamid Karzai, has survived at least four
> > serious
> > assassination attempts and scores of other plots that were hatched by all
> > those
> > opposed to his vision of building a 'new' Afghanistan. Not
> surprisingly
> > then, gaining entry to his fortified residence in Kabul is a visitor's
> > nightmare. Not even a pencil is allowed in, as a combination of
> mechanical,
> > human and canine interceptors attempt to secure the President. Journalists
> > are
> > treated with exceptional suspicion after an Al Qaeda suicide squad, posing
> > as a
> > television crew, assassinated Ahmad Shah Massoud, described today as
> " the
> > national hero of Afghanistan", two days before 9/11.
> >
> >  The only recent change in the security infrastructure is the gradual
> > transition from the ubiquitous US Marines in the Presidential Palace to
> > more
> > Afghan guards. On the streets of Kabul, the sense of a country and a city
> > under
> > siege is no less. Heads of missions routinely travel in bulletproof
> > vehicles
> > escorted by vehicles with jammers to disable IEDs, and Embassies are
> > fortified
> > with several sets of concrete walls to prevent suicide bombers from
> gaining
> > access. That, however, did not prevent the suicide attack on the Indian
> > embassy
> > that killed two Indian diplomats and scores of others.
> >
> >  But Hamid Karzai displays none of the tension and insecurity that goes
> > with
> > being the President of arguably one of the most difficult and insecure
> > states
> > in
> > the international system. Charismatic, charming, confident and remarkably
> > articulate in English, Karzai comes across as a leader genuinely wanting
> to
> > make
> > a difference. Although hurt by criticism over corruption in his government
> > and
> > by descriptions of him as being  little more than the Mayor of Kabul, the
> > President of Afghanistan seems still genuinely  committed  to building  an
> > Afghanistan at peace with itself and the outside world.  With a remarkable
> > understanding of Afghan history, 51-year old, Hamid Karzai, an ethnic
> > Pashtun
> > of
> > the Popalzai clan of the Durrani tribe, has a great sense of pride in his
> > people
> > and his country.
> >
> >  Hamid Karzai, In a free-wheeling  interview with  Amitabh Mattoo, Vice
> > Chancellor, University of Jammu, outlines his vision for Afghanistan and
> > the
> > Afghan people.
> >
> > Excerpts from the interview:
> >
> > Hamid Karzai:  Welcome Vice-Chancellor! Are there any students from
> > Afghanistan in Jammu and Kashmir?
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: Not at the moment. But while I was growing up in Srinagar,
> > we
> > had many Afghan students.
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: You know, Afghanistan had a period of very bad rule in
> > Kashmir.
> > Have you studied that?
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: Yes, Sir!
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: Do the Kashmiris talk about it?
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: They talk about Afghan rule, not in the most pleasant of
> > terms.
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: They don't? Where is Zalmay Rasool? Bring him? Let us
> defame
> > him. We have here my National Security Advisor, Zalmay Rasool. His great
> > grandfather was the Afghan Governor of Kashmir. A terrible Governor. He
> was
> > the
> > last Governor of Kashmir of Afghanistan. When he went there, people came
> to
> > greet him. As is the custom in this part of the world, they asked him
> > "what
> > can we do for you Mr. Governor or your Highness?" because he was his
> > Highness the King's brother or cousin. So, he said, "I would like
> to
> > help you by buying the wind from you", and the elders of Kashmir went
> out,
> > consulted each other. They came back and said, fine. They sold him the
> wind
> > and
> > he gave them a couple of thousands or lakhs of rupees and he bought the
> > wind.
> > Time went by. They were reaping their crops and separating the chaff from
> > the
> > wheat and he came and said "the wind is mine", and then he
> charged
> > them 25 percent of their annual products! Imagine.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: I didn't know this.
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: Oh, he became the richest man in Afghanistan. This man's
> name
> > was Azeem. Before him, there was Governor called Attah. Attah was a very
> > good
> > man. Azeem was the last Governor. So, the people of Kashmir wrote a poem
> in
> > Persian to Amir Dost Mohammed Khan, the king of Afghanistan. In that poem
> > they
> > kind of explained to him that this is not the right kind of governor:
> >
> >  "Attai Mohammed ma burai, Bala-i-Azeeme har ma firastane".
> >
> > Attah means 'gift' - they say in the poem that you have taken away
> the
> > gift of Mohammed, meaning the Prophet Mohammed - from us and sent us a
> > 'great (Azeem)' evil in its place. When the king read this, he
> recalled
> > the Governor. With that also came the end of Afghan rule in Kashmir.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: I know, it was not a pleasant time.
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: And what is your own field?
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: International Relations. I did my D.Phil from Oxford
> > University
> > and then I came back and taught at Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU) for
> > some
> > years.
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: JNU, a great place! I like that institution a lot. India
> will
> > do
> > very well, if it continues to lay emphasis on intellectual excellence.
> >
> >  And it must do more in the field of value education. You have embedded in
> > the
> > Indian culture and psyche, the depth of knowledge. And that is an immense
> > asset
> > in your hands in India. If you can continue to combine that, with modern
> > science
> > and with the humility and humbleness that Indian culture offers, that
> > combination will make India one of the greatest countries in the world in
> > the
> > coming years. I am always afraid, that the new generations of India will
> > misunderstand modernity; that they will interpret modernity as not
> wearing,
> > say,
> > a sari. The sari used here as a symbol for many things.
> >
> >  Your depth of cultural beauty is the most important concern for humanity.
> > Going beyond the self, is one of the greatest assets of India. What Gandhi
> > ji
> > has done for you, in terms of the struggle for rights and going beyond
> > self.
> > Sometimes I am concerned. I hope I am wrong. What is your view? Do you
> > think
> > the
> > young in India know what they are doing?
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: I think it is one of the great challenges.
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: It is?
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: And what is happening is that occasionally we lose the
> > balance,
> > while being driven by, as you pointed out, the attractiveness of
> modernity.
> > Sometimes it is so seductive that you begin to lose your moorings, your
> > roots.
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: Attractiveness of modernity or modernity misdefined?
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: I agree, modernity misdefined. But the greatness of India,
> > as
> > you pointed out will be that it will, hopefully, be able to strike and
> > sustain
> > the right balance.
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: To sustain it will take an amount of effort. But let us hope
> > that
> > it happens!
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: How do you look back at your tenure as President, in terms
> > of
> > what you have been able to achieve and what you thought you could have
> > possibly
> > done better?
> >
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: When I look back at my past six years as the President of
> > Afghanistan, my greatest success is that I made Afghanistan home for all
> > Afghans. All Afghans feel comfortable here, those who were fighting with
> > each
> > other in the streets of this country, are now sitting side by side in the
> > Parliament, debating each other, voting for each other, making alliances,
> > breaking alliances. The other big achievement is in the return of Afghan
> > boys
> > and girls to education, I wish we had invited you yesterday, we forgot, to
> > the
> > commencement ceremony of 600 students from all around the country, who
> > graduated
> > from various faculties of Universities of Afghanistan. It was a
> great-great
> > day.
> >
> >  I take pride also in  the improvement in health services, of  which
> > earlier we had almost none. I also brought back to this country  the voice
> > of
> > the people. They can talk now; they have the freedom to express
> themselves,
> > freedom of expression, freedom of speech and a culture of debate in
> > society.
> >
> >  I have exposed the government to criticism. The government is no longer
> > the
> > ruler. It is a body facing serious public scrutiny. Just a few minutes
> > before
> > you came, there was the German press with me. They grilled me on
> > corruption,
> > grilled me completely, and roasted me. Good! That is what I want.
> >
> >  I brought back to this country, the public treasure. There is financial
> > procedure, norms, a code of conduct. There are no secret or hidden
> > accounts.
> > The
> > country has gone from 180 dollars per capita to two times higher. It is
> > nearly
> > 355 dollars now. The legitimate GDP has doubled.
> >
> >  Afghanistan has found its place back in the rest of the world. Its flag
> is
> > flying all around the world. Its presence is all around the world. There
> is
> > no
> > venue in which Afghanistan is not present.
> >
> >  Afghanistan has built more roads in the past 5-6 years then it has ever
> > built
> > in its life. Afghans spend more than they did even before. Of course, all
> > of
> > this is due to the help of the international community. And, most
> > importantly,
> > Afghanistan was removed from being a surrogate in this part of world to
> > this or
> > that country. Its identity, its independence is no longer as threatened.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: And the failures? The problems?
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: Afghanistan has lots of problems.  Poppy and the opium
> trade,
> > which will not go away in spite of all my efforts for another 10-15 years.
> > We
> > have to work together: our society and the international community to deal
> > with
> > this huge problem. Much of the poppy cultivation is driven by desperation.
> > So,
> > desperation has to go away for people to resort to legitimate forms of
> > agriculture.
> >
> >  Afghanistan still has a very weak capacity in administration. It
> doesn't
> > have the tools, the human capital to deliver the goods to its people. And,
> > of
> > course, what makes most sad is the number of Afghan lives that we have
> lost
> > in
> > the form of the Taliban and in the form of those fighting against the
> > Taliban
> > from Afghanistan. So, the lack of complete security for the Afghan people
> > is
> > one
> > of my greatest sorrows and perhaps my greatest failure. Though the country
> > on
> > the whole has seen a lot of stability and peace, but even one home feeling
> > unsafe is equal to the whole country feeling unsafe.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: Regarding India, you talked about its contribution in
> > education.  I talked to a group of Afghan students and they said that the
> > American University may set-up a campus in Kabul. Would the Afghan
> > Government
> > be
> > open to Jammu University  setting up a campus in Kabul? Or a
> public-private
> > partnership in education?
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: Absolutely! We want investment in education from Indian
> > public
> > and private players. As soon as possible, in any numbers as you like. You
> > are
> > already too late. Hurry up! Hurry up! This is one of the best services
> that
> > you
> > can offer the Afghan people. Also, we would encourage investment in
> health,
> > in
> > Information Technology, in infrastructure building and Agriculture.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: In terms of the region, now that Afghanistan is a part of
> > SAARC
> > how do you view the process of regional integration? And what about
> > Pakistan?
> > You know there is concern  within India about Pakistan being  a spoiler.
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: Well, this is a very important issue, for Afghanistan, for
> > Pakistan and for India. Wisdom would not lead us in any other direction
> but
> > in
> > the direction of openness and co-operation. If we continue to have
> > blockages
> > for
> > transit and transport, in exchanges of trade and commerce, we are not
> > hurting
> > the other countries, we are hurting ourselves. So, this is not only a
> > policy,
> > this is a human wish for the next generations of the countries of the
> > world, of
> > this region, especially the three countries. If we want to live in
> > prosperity,
> > we have to open up, completely separating politics from it. I would very
> > much
> > recommend an open road system, open exchanges of goods, of industry, of
> > talents.
> > Eventually this is going to happen, it will be better if it happens
> > sooner.
> >
> >  Pakistan should give access to India to move to Central Asia. India
> should
> > give full access to Pakistan to move to East Asia. India must recognize
> > Pakistan's importance and Pakistan must recognize India's
> importance.
> > Afghanistan will be happy to be engaged with both.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: The issue of trade, as you said, should be divorced from
> > politics but unfortunately given the history of India- Pakistan relations
> > that's not always been so. We hope that this will change. I was in
> Pakistan
> > just after the election and with the Awami National Party winning power in
> > the
> > North Western Frontier Province (NWFP), the new leadership is thinking of
> > talking to the local Taliban and reviving the spirit of Pashtoonwali –
> the
> > traditional cultural and social ethos and code of honour  of the Pashtuns
> -
> > as
> > a way of combating extremism. You have often talked about talking to
> > sections
> > of
> > Taliban? Do you think that this is possible? Will it lead anywhere?
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: Yes! First of all, the victory of ANP in the elections of
> > North-West Frontier Provinces proved that given the opportunity, all
> people
> > will
> > vote for common sense and moderation.  And the people of North-Western
> > Frontier
> > Province proved this in a very clear voice, by voting for a moderate,
> > life-oriented representation. So the propaganda that the Pashtoons were
> > extremists or harboured extremists was proven wrong by the votes that the
> > Pashtoon cast in favour of ANP. Indeed, the Pashtoons, they were victims
> of
> > extremism and terrorism. As soon as they got the opportunity, they
> rejected
> > extremism and terrorism. They wanted a moderate representation, giving
> them
> > hope
> > for the future.
> >
> >  ANP's fight against extremism is clear. They do not want to negotiate
> > with those foreign extremists who found a place, a sanctuary, in the
> > Pashtoon
> > lands. They want them removed, which is good. But they want to talk to
> > fellow
> > Pashtoons, to their fellow men to find ways of freeing them from the grips
> > of
> > extremism. I would entirely support them. So, fight the extremist radicals
> > with
> > guns, liberate the rest.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: Would you see this happening even in Afghanistan?
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: Afghanistan has been saying this for a long time. We want to
> > talk
> > and bring back to our country those who are driven out from Afghanistan by
> > fear
> > or consigned to bad treatment by us or by the earlier Afghan Government or
> > the
> > coalition. But we will not allow extremism, we will continue to fight the
> > Al-Qaida and terrorist networks or those who are associated with them. And
> > those
> > who are driven out because fear or ignorance must be given a chance to
> come
> > back.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: So, do you think the legacy of someone like Badshah Khan,
> > the
> > Frontier Gandhi, can be mainstreamed within the Pashtoons?
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: Immensely, immensely, his call for non-violence is a major
> > issue
> > today, a major issue today. And for the Pashtoons, Badshah Khan, a man
> like
> > that, with a vision like that is a source of immense inspiration! At a
> time
> > like
> > today when there is so much violence inflicted upon people,  so much
> > suffering,
> > destruction, people being driven away from homes, that vision of Badshah
> > Khan
> > is
> > the best service to the cause of
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: I am sure you are aware of the catch-22 nature of the
> > region's relationship with the United States. On the one hand, some
> feel
> > that there is a genuine need for the presence and influence of the US and
> > international community, especially here, to combat terrorism. And, yet,
> on
> > the
> > other, there seems to be growing anti-Americanism all over the region.
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: Afghanistan is, as a nation, very-very grateful to the
> United
> > States of America for liberating us. We were an occupied country, almost
> > entirely, six years ago and the United States and the rest of the world
> > helped
> > us liberate ourselves. Not only that, the United States came to
> reconstruct
> > our
> > country. All the comforts, all the signs of reconstruction in Afghanistan
> > are
> > mostly done with the help of the United States and then of course, other
> > countries. In Afghanistan, there is no anti-Americanism, fortunately. We
> > were
> > grateful, even in the past, to America, because we were together fighting
> > the
> > Soviet army. Afghanistan's natural tendencies have always been pro-
> > capitalism, free enterprise, and private ownership. We see the US as a God
> > loving and God fearing country generally. I don't know why, but I have
> not
> > heard of sections of India being anti-American.
> >
> >  Amitabh Matoo: In India to a limited extent, but in Pakistan
> > anti-Americanism  seems to be very intense
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: Yes, Pakistan. I heard a lot about it. But, I don't know
> > whether that's true or it is only in the media, or driven by certain
> > interests.  But I can only speak for Afghanistan and I can speak only for
> > the
> > Afghan people. There is overwhelming support for the United States and for
> > the
> > United States presence in Afghanistan. And there is growing friendship
> > between
> > India and the United States. We encourage that, very much.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: Just before I came to Kabul, the Indian media carried a
> > story
> > which said that the Afghan Government has stopped some Indian soap operas
> > and
> > there was some criticism in the media.
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: We have not stopped that, there was the Clergy Council of
> > Afghanistan, the religious ulema. They had a complaint with not only
> > Indian
> > dramas but also Pakistani dramas and some other items in the Afghan media
> > that
> > they did not like from the religious point of view, not being in tone with
> > the
> > day to day life of people. The commission was set up to correct parts of
> > it,
> > not
> > to remove it. The Afghan people love watching those dramas.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: But this censorship is in no ways signaling a return to the
> > days
> > of the Taliban regime?
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. Definitely, not,
> > Definitely,
> > not, Definitely, not. We were always an extremely friendly society in
> > Afghanistan, towards India. Even when I was growing up.  Among the youth
> > here
> > there is as much knowledge about India and Indian movies as we had when we
> > were
> > that age and even more.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: Even the official photographer said that  he had learnt
> > Hindi
> > from the films.
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: Of course, sure, they have all done that, absolutely.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: When you were young did you see Indian movies?
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: Of course, in our times the films were better. I don't
> know
> > if I can say that. The new directors will get mad at us!
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: The expatriate Afghan writer Khalid Husseini's , A
> > Thousand Splendid Suns was recently published. It has become very popular,
> > but
> > it has also raised  concerns about the place and role of Afghan women.
> What
> > kind of role do you see for women in Afghanistan?
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: It is an evolving and improving and developing role, but I
> > was
> > very happy to see so many of Afghan girls graduating recently. Almost half
> > were
> > girls.
> >
> >  Almost half were girls, especially in the Medical Sciences. They are not
> > many
> > in Engineering, just a few of them. Most of them from Medical Sciences, a
> > lot
> > of
> > them. They are growing happily. But, Afghanistan has a long way to travel,
> > a
> > long way to travel. We have to be realistic about it and keep trying,
> > very-very
> > hard. The best service for Afghan women, the best help to them to function
> > better, is to educate them and then to educate them better. There is no
> > shortcut, unfortunately.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: How do you see yourself? All these years as President, are
> > you a
> > happier person, a most satisfied person or a more stressed person?
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: In thoughts, I am very happy.  And I was very happy
> > yesterday,
> > in giving the Certificates and Diplomas to all the graduates, And I am
> > happy
> > when I have to inaugurate a road, to inaugurate a school, to see people
> > getting
> > education and seeing young Afghan talent emerging and to see democracy
> > taking
> > roots in Afghanistan, institutional structures taking roots in Afghanistan
> > and
> > empowerment of the judiciary, the freedom of the press. And it causes me
> > pain,
> > personally, I feel hurt when the press criticizes me unfairly. And of
> > course, I
> > have immense moments of anguish and anger when the Afghans suffer in
> > bomb-blasts, in acts of terrorism. When our villages are bombed, our
> people
> > suffer. This makes me very angry.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: We hope that you will be elected for your next tenure. But,
> > what
> > would be your principle agenda for the next term?
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: To continue to rebuild Afghanistan. In Afghanistan, the
> > agenda is
> > very broad. It is not like in other countries, it is not like in India,
> > where
> > you have certain things and you want to add other things. In Afghanistan,
> > we
> > have to move in all the directions, at the same time. Keep building
> > schools,
> > keep building roads, keep adding quantity and quality to it. In your part
> > of
> > the
> > world, it is sometimes quantity. But in terms of the achievements, you
> keep
> > adding to the quality that you have. In Afghanistan, we must work on
> > fronts,
> > quantity and quality.
> >
> >  Better roads, more roads. More schools, better schools. More hospitals,
> > better hospitals. More teachers, better teachers. More wages, higher
> wages.
> > So,
> > strengthening of the institutions and having ability to abide by the law,
> > improving the rule of law and working on finishing this culture of
> > impurity,
> > where offenders go unpunished.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: And combating corruption.
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: And combating corruption and combating extremism It is a
> very
> > full house of activity.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: Excellency, how do you de-stress yourself? I mean as a
> > Vice-Chancellor, I feel stressed at the end of the day. but yours' is
> the
> > most challenging job perhaps in the whole world.\
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: I think for me now, the best stress buster is the sight of
> my
> > son, when I go to him. He is fourteen months old now, just beginning to
> > learn
> > words. Each day go to see him in the evening, he has picked up a new word.
> > This
> > morning he learnt 'Kela'.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: What is his name?
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: Mirwais. Mirwais is one of the greatest Afghan
> personalities.
> > He
> > was the person who began the modern concept of loya jirga, when
> Afghanistan
> > had
> > the Iranian ruler, actually Georgian. He was from Georgia named
> 'Gurgan
> > Khan' ruling in Kandhar. There began a movement of the Afghan people
> > through
> > consultations. What you call in your country the 'Panchayat
> System'.
> >
> >  Through the Panchayat, he began a system of consultations that eventually
> > liberated Afghanistan. Not through military means, through civilian action
> > and
> > consultation. A bright man! Of course, his sons created then an empire
> > towards
> > the west, towards Iran, right up to Isfahan and that was a short lived
> one.
> >
> > Amitabh Matoo: Thank you very much, Excellency!
> >
> > Hamid Karzai: Welcome, Vice-Chancellor, welcome.
> >
> > (The interview was originally published in India and Global Affairs
> > Magazine)
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________
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