[Reader-list] Baggage of JKLF is too heavy to carry-by Dr.Shabir

Tue May 13 19:29:23 IST 2008

Dear TaraPrakash

  Am specifically picking up your question "Are the elected MLAs Kashmiris?"

  You ask tough questions and it will be interesting to hear the answer(s) to this particular one, if any answers are forthcoming at all.

  Talking of the "toughness" of your comments, I was looking forward to seeing the response from M Yousuf to your range of comments addressed to him. (On 13/04/08 in Thread "Hindu on Tibet"). M Yousuf has disappeared since then. I hope he is well.

  Coming back to your latest question, it is mirrored in what I wrote to someone in a (predominantly Kashmiri Muslim forum). I have blocked out his name.

  Kshmendra

  Re: [kashnet] Discussion with XXXX XXXX Jee 

    Dear XXXX XXXX Ji

  The nature of your postings in the past and the language therein would have dissuaded me from addressing you. In this last post of yours though there is the attitude of 'dialogue'. 
  Without getting into the nitty gritty of your ongoing discussion with XXXX XXXX Ji, there are 2 points on which I will request you to do some thinking.

  1.  Are ALL KMs on the politically opposite side of the KPs?
    You write " On that very note there are differences between pandits and KMs and both believe that the other party is wrong.I as a KM dont see any reason why a pandit cannot join the ongoing freedom movement.But for that to happen a pandit has to put aside the differences and the pro india approach has to go.Similarly KMs need to accomodate pandits accordingly."

  You suggest that ALL KPs are pro-India. That would be difficult to argue against.

  You also suggest that ALL KMs are part of the "ongoing freedom movement". 

  That is factually incorrect.

  If someone from 'jangbadi line ke uss paar' were to make such a generalisation, it could be dismissed with an amused smile as a complete lack of knowledge about Indian Controlled Kashmir (ICK). But you Abid Ji are not from Pakistan Controlled Kashmir (PCK), are you? 

  Yes in ICK there are the "hurriyat pasand" who are a part of the "ongoing freedom struggle" but they are only ONE PORTION of the KMs in ICK.  They are not ALL of the KMs.

  The KM support base in ICK of National Conference, Congress, Communists and to a great extent that of the PDP too are NOT a part of  the "ongoing freedom struggle". You might choose to dismiss them as "enemies of the movement" or as "Indian Agents" but the fact remains that whatever be arguably the percentage they form of the KMs in ICK, they are NOT a part of the "ongoing freedom struggle".
  2. What is 'KASHMIRIYAT"?
    "Kashmiriyat" is a word that gets thrown around a lot in such discussions. It is much used. Much abused I think.

  Is "Kashmiriyat" to be defined by the KM alone? The question rather should be if "Kashmiriyat" is to be defined by those KMs alone who are a part of the "ongoing freedom struggle". 

  What about those KMs who are not a part of the "ongoing freedom struggle"? Do they have no right to lay out the profile of what constitutes "Kashmiriyat"?

  What about the KPs? Has anybody cared to ask them what the KPs understand by "Kashmiriyat" and what definition of "Kashmiriyat" the KPs are comfortable with?

  If there has to be inclusiveness in "Kashmiriyat" then certainly a particular interpretation of "Kashmiriyat" held by ONLY those KMs who support the "ongoing freedom freedom struggle" cannot be thrust down the throats of the KPs with an "accept or die" kind of threatening.
  Please think over these points.  Your comments/reactions are welcome.

  Kshmendra Kaul

TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:

  I am sure it is a minority voice in J&K that desires freedom from "ruthless 
India and Indians"
In fact there are certain "ruthless Indians" who want Kashmiris be given 
right to self determination. There may be other "ruthless Indians" who want 
all the Muslim Kashmiris to be exterminated.
The point is that when you try to impose a homogenous identity and a 
singular ambition on the people, you might be committing the same crime as 
Indian government and many other colonial powers did. Your voice is that of 
a political elites who change the will of the masses sometime by brutal 
"ruthless" means and sometimes by sheer eloquence.
What do Kashmiris want has not always remained unchanged. There was a time 
when United States of America was looked at expectantly in Kashmir, now it 
is not. We don't hear the US government calling Kashmir a disputed 
territory. How can you say that the relations between Indians and Kashmiris 
have not transformed or will not transform over the time?

However, I don't see any point of going on unless you define what you mean 
by Kashmiris and Indians. Are the elected MLAs Kashmiris?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rebellious Koshur" 
To: "S. Jabbar" ; "junaid" 
; 
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Baggage of JKLF is too heavy to carry-by 
Dr.Shabir

> Sonia,
>
> The problem with "activists" like you is that you pick and choose the 
> issues which concern you and not the people on ground. The issues which 
> you have raised are least of the concern for Kashmiris. Our prime concern 
> is not the wealth acquired by the pro-freedom politicians but it is 
> freedom from ruthless India and Indians. People, who claim to be our 
> friends as we dont need masters, should support us in our endeavors.
>
> The issue of accountability of our politicians is an internal matter of 
> Kashmiris which we are proficient enough to deal with. We know who has 
> done what; you need not bother yourself with our internal affairs. Being 
> an Indian it is your responsibility to question the presence of Indian 
> army in Kashmir ; the brutality of Indian soldiers; the criminal policies 
> of Indian politicians. Demonstrate your principled stand vis-à-vis Indian 
> policies on Kashmir . We the people of Kashmir will take account of the 
> blunders of our politicians and militants. We know who killed whom and 
> why. We know where from the money came, for what it was spent, and how 
> much did the politicians use for themselves. We till now have and in 
> future will do the needful. You please keep out of it, because this is not 
> India . It is Kashmir . You, the Indian civil society activists, seem to 
> be behaving in the same hegemonic attitude which the Indian statecraft has 
> exhibited so far in Kashmir .
>
> It is ridiculous when you say Kashmiri society is deeply divided. Is it 
> not true for India ? Is it not true for Delhi ? Is it not true for the 
> small locality where you live in Delhi ? Yes Kashmiris are divided and I 
> see it as the democratic mindset of the people. The division which you are 
> talking about is the difference of opinion which is present everywhere in 
> the modern democratic world.
>
> You have asked a Junaid how many JKLF men were killed by army and how 
> many by Hizbula Mujahideen. It is useless to misinterpret things as people 
> here know the truth about each and every killing. There is no need for 
> them to share it with you. Why should we trust you?
>
> For the purpose of clarity, I would like to quote the figures of a survey 
> done by a Srinagar based organization, Coalition of Civil Society. 
> According to their survey in Baramulla district, the total number of JKLF 
> men who got killed in Baramulla only is 180. Out of the 180 JKLF men 115 
> have been killed by Indian armed forces. Hizbul Mujahideen has killed 8 
> JKLF members while as other militant organizations have killed 15 JKLF 
> men. JKLF itself has killed 3 of there members. There are around 39 JKLF 
> members who have been killed by unidentified gunmen. People here in 
> Kashmir understand who these unidentified gunmen are.
>
> What I could understand from your post was that you think JKLF has 
> suffered more because of Hizbul Mujahideen compared to Indian army while 
> as the truth according to the Baramulla survey of Coalition of Civil 
> Society is that 87 JKLF members have been martyred during the encounters 
> with Indian army. 13 have been killed in custody. Another 6 have been 
> subjected to enforced disappearance from Baramulla district amongst the 
> JKLF members.
>
> Why are you unnecessarily defaming JKLF cadres? I know you have great 
> friendship with Yasin Malik but even he wont deny that India is his enemy 
> and not Hizbul Mujahideen.
>
> Qalab Hussain
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Email.
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