[Reader-list] Thinking Through Figures on...

[Kirdar]

Dear Pawan
Yes why not - I am sure the subscribers of readers-list would be ready
to fight the injustice done to Kashmiri Pundits. I think the only
"trust-worthy" institution today is the judiciary which gives hope for
everyone. So, if your cause and campaign is genuine, any sane person
should support it.

BUT, but, but... The problem right now is, that having persued your
campaign on this list in such a brazen and loud manner, most often
using insuniating and insulting tone of language, some of you
(displaced Kashmiri Pundits) have killed your own cause. Secondly,
many of you think that the members on this list are being paid to run
a campaign against Indian nationalism and support terrorists. This is
absurd. What makes you think so. Do you have a proof for this.

As I have noticed, people like Shuddha take pains to collect
information and references to prove a point - that's why their posts
are so long. But most of you reject his logic and reasoning by saying
that you don't have time to go through such long mails. Tell me, you
don't have time to read it, or you don't know how to counter his
argument? For a moment, consider Sarai as a court of law where you
have to prove that Yasin Malik killed your brothers in Kashmir. If
Yasin Malik's advocate brings a lengthy argument in his favour, will
you try to counter it point by point, or simply abuse the lawyer by
calling him an anti-national? Do you think the judge in the court will
make his desicion in your favour simply because you are the vicitm
even if you can't make logical arguments. This is a simple question
for which I expect your answer. If you cannot engage people in
argument logically, and continue to make a "noise" about your being
victimized, how are you going to make people sympathatic towards your
plight. I symthasize with you, but I get iritated with your tone and
persistence.

So, my suggestion to you all (inlcuding responsible people in Sarai)
is to engage in a dialogue that could probably be carried on in a
court of law. This doesn't mean that you need to know all the laws. It
simply requires one thing: to stop doubting each other's intentions,
and respect the difference of opinion. But the ultimate goal is to
find resolutions to the current crisis. I doubt if there is anyone on
this list who is an enemey of the country or humanism. And please stop
all this non-sense about Jai some or the other. In this stupid
argument about Jai-whatever, I often get reminded of a lovely movie
song/bhajan (from film Guddi) that starts "Hum ko mann ki shakti
dena...", the second line conveys a powerful message for all aspiring
humanity-' Doosron ki jai se pehle khud ko jai karen', meaning,
"Before attempting to improve others, may we improve ourselves."

So, I say: jai myself

regards

Kirdar

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> To start with can the members of SARAI run a campaign to bring to justice
> people like Yasin Malik and Bitta Karate ? Are there volunteers ?
>
> Will Shuddha and Shivam take the lead ?
>
> Pawan
>
>
> On 11/3/08, Kirdar <kirdarsingh at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Pawan, Aditya and others
>> Sorry to butt in again, but I was wondering if you folks saw my last
>> mail (titled: one more....email) in which I made a couple of
>> submissions. The aim of my message (excerpts of which I am giving
>> below once again) was to take this dialogue towards a more practical
>> and proactive direction rather than the present status quo of
>> mud-slinging match between the two parties. Can we, for some time at
>> least, become more serious about this and stop doubting each other's
>> intentions. And this request is also for other members of reader-list,
>> such as Aarti, Inder, Shivam etc., to kindly refrain from only a
>> reactionary feedback and personal attacks, and look for possible
>> solutions (although I know some of you are trying hard to resolve
>> things). So, to begin with, I want to ask both the parties, if they
>> agree to the following statements which I had given in my last email.
>> If there is anything you want to add, or disagree with, please let us
>> know. Shuddha, I know you took pains to give contrary statistics about
>> some of the following, and while I agree with you, I want to ignore it
>> for a while, in order to bring some order to the reader-list.
>>
>> (1) I fully realize and SYMPATHISE with the plight the migrant
>> Kashmiri Pandits have gone through.
>> (2) I  CONDEMN the "Muslim" extremists who have used violence and
>> torture on Kashmiri Pundits.
>> (3) I agree that Kashmiri Pundits have the right to return to their
>> homeland, and all possible efforts should be made for their safe
>> return and livelihood.
>> (4) All Kashmiri Pundits persecuted and uprooted from their homeland
>> should be fully compensated
>> (5) Those who incurred the violence on Kashmiri Pundits should be
>> punished according to the law.
>> (6) I am ready to help or contribute in any way towards the betterment
>> of the current plight of migrant Kashmiri Pundits, and appeal others
>> to do the same.
>>
>> If there is anything else anyone wishes to add to the list, which is a
>> sensible demand/request, I would be ready to endorse that as well.
>>
>> One of you said that "we'll not sit quitely until the murderers of the
>> Kashmiri Pundits are not hanged in Tihar jail" or something like that.
>> Fine, are you in the process of fighting a case against those
>> perpetrators? Or do you want an help in that regard from the Sarai
>> members. Tell us, what exactly do you want us to do. How can we help
>> in bringing justice to you.
>>
>> Kirdar
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 1:55 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Yes, they are not communal, they are just blood red.
>> >
>> > Its sheer wastage of time to argue with people like Inder Salim. Their
>> > mind
>> > revolves only in one direction, you may go to the extent of twisting
>> > your
>> > neck, but nothing would help change such extreme hate mongers. They are
>> > unfortunately Indians, with no love for the country. They are too Arty
>> > just
>> > for their hate campaign against the country and its citizens..
>> >
>> > Jai Hind. Hai Panun Kashmir.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 11/3/08, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> hello Tara ,
>> >>
>> >> The only party not communal is the party with leftist badge.....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Bright star
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Pawan
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 11/3/08, taraprakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > O no. Jay Maharashtra is no more Shive Sena slogan. At least they
>> >> > don't
>> >> > have
>> >> > the monopoly. As they moved to Hindu Rashtra and with that to
>> >> > parliament,
>> >> > Jay Maharashtra became redundant to them and so available for new
>> >> > forces
>> >> to
>> >> > appropriate. The already muddled political scenario is going to get
>> >> messier
>> >> > as the communal Shiv Sena will again join hands with the communal BJP
>> >> > and
>> >> > Congress and MNS, who are not communal because the term communal in
>> >> > India
>> >> > is
>> >> > reserved for a particular kind of ideology, will form an alliance. As
>> >> > it
>> >> > gets messier, the political landscape will become fertile for
>> >> > military
>> >> > intervention. After which perhaps, we will be united again. Till then
>> >> > let
>> >> > us
>> >> > observe the political engineering.
>> >> >
>> >> > Jai Dilli and Jai Florida (why not?)