[Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 23, 13- nudity and faiths.!
rajendra bhat
raja_starkglass at yahoo.com
Tue Nov 4 17:00:47 IST 2008
Well, if nudity had nothing to do in the faith of the great cultural artist, indersalim, then in practice only, hijab would not have been there only for women.? Nudity is totally shunned by the followers of faith of indersalim then why this hycracy of this cultural behaviour of uncivilised kind , just to annoy the other civilised in the society.?
As far as temples and nudity and the concept of nudity, it is for all to ponder and understand, as the faith of hindu way of life, does not limit itself to material life only, it has intellectual and spiritual aspects of the faith, and the temple scriptues and arts portray exactly this aspects of the faith, that after all the material and sensuous pleasures, there is some pleasure of much higher kind, that is intellectual to perceiev and spiritual way to seek. Unlike the holy scriptures which portarya haven as full of 72 virgins, dry fruits for breakfast and dining, the faith talks of soul, which does not need the body once it achieves the highest presence of super soul. When other scriptures have not yet imagined the ultimate bliss of being with super soul, the faith of this continent, has explained that soul has body as cover, but body is not soul. After all the sensuous pleasures, the intellect seeks to bliss of the highest order, nudity does
not affect the soul in the highest blissful stage, carnal pleasures also give temporary bliss, but intellect , body, mind and soul get eternal bliss when the intellect rises above all the mundane matters of sensuous pleasures, that is the reason the nude art is in the initial stages of the temple as one enters and as the person moves towards sanctum these are not present.
As to inder salim type of cultrual beings, his faith limits itself only to material aspects of life, and urge to conquer the "others" in society, even though faith does not itself indulge in criminality, followers of these faith do indulge in criminal acts to seek more of material pleasure at any cost.?
----- Original Message ----
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Subject: reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 31
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Today's Topics:
1. Fwd: YJA - here is what Hon'ble Justice Rekha Sharma had to
say in her judgement (Jeebesh)
2. Re: Thinking Through Figures on... (Aarti Sethi)
3. Re: Fwd: reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 13 (Aarti Sethi)
4. Re: Thinking Through Figures on... (Pawan Durani)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 14:35:40 +0530
From: Jeebesh <jeebesh at sarai.net>
Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: YJA - here is what Hon'ble Justice Rekha
Sharma had to say in her judgement
To: Sarai Reader-list <reader-list at sarai.net>
Message-ID: <E561F3C5-44C2-4C35-BCD6-EC42FEAE286D at sarai.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="WINDOWS-1252"; format=flowed;
delsp=yes
from: yamunajiye at gmail.com
WP (C) No. 7506 of 2007
And
WP (C) No. 7507 of 2007
This judgement relates to a river which once flowed majestically but
is now gasping for breath. If this continues, time is not far off
when this gift of Gods, will die an unnatural death getting buried
beneath the layers of silt. If no urgent remedial measures are taken
Yamuna may exist only in books. It is this fear an anxiety that has
made me pen these lines.
During arguments it was common case of the parties that development
cannot be divorced from environmental issues and that development has
to be compatible with the need to preserve, project rather improve
environment. I think I am right in saying that it was at no point in
dispute that development has to co-exist and not endanger or cause
irreversible damage to nature. I therefore need not go into any
lengthy discussion on this aspect of the matter or on what the courts
have said, for they have also not said anything different.
What then is disputed ? The dispute is with regard to the application
of the above said well delineated, well defined principles to the land
in question located in Pocket III Phase I in Zone ‘O’. Development
projects have been undertaken in that area. The petitioners says that
the entire construction activity is on the riverbed itself which will
destroy not only Yamuna but materially harm the entire ecologically
sensitive area. The respondents, on the other than, assert that the
land in question is not riverbed and that in any case, the entire
construction work has been undertaken after due deliberation and after
obtaining required clearance from the authorities concerned and that
all remedial measures have been taken.
Is the construction on the “river bed”? My noble brother has gone at
great lengths to fathom meaning and import of the term “river bed” and
after having undertaken that exercise has, in his wisdom left to an
“Expert Committee” to decide as to whether the site in question is on
the “river bed” or not. I will revert to this “expert committee” a
little later. Let me first deal with the question as to whether the
site in question is on the “river bed” or not and if not, to what
effect.
Let us first have a look at the NEERI Report of 2005. If we look at
it carefully we will find that it described the land in question as
“river bed”. It says on page 2.8 of the report that “Being centrally
situated and considering pressures on the land, the land in river bed
is precious.” Not only this, my learned brother has also noticed in
paragraph 65 of his judgement and I quote:
“………..The MoEF has constituted independent Expert Committees called
the Expert Appraisal Committee………. for seeking approval for the
construction of the Commonwealth Games Village in the river bed.
……….The Expert Appraisal Committee applied the precautionary principle
to emphasise that the proposed work should not be of a permanent
nature………. and the river bed may be restored to the river.
My brother has also noted in paragraph 66, the Environmental Clearance
for the project, accorded on 14.12.2006, on the following condition:
“Since the design of the proposed structure is yet to be made, so far
as possible the work should not be of a permanent nature……… the
proposals should proceed with the assumption that the river bed may
have to be restored to the river”. (emphasis supplied)
I feel, with respect that in view of what has been noticed above, no
doubt is left that the site in question is on the river bed. However,
to my mind, even if it be taken that the site in question is not river
bed, yet the urbanization of the site and colossal construction, under
way may yet adversely affect the environment, the river and ecology.
That it can be so finds support from the following culled out from the
Master Plan.
“Apart from being the main source of water supply for Delhi, it is one
of major sources of ground water recharge. However, over the years,
rapid urbanization, encroachment on the river banks, over exploitation
of natural resources/water and serious deficiencies and backlog in
sanitation and waste waster management services have resulted in the
dwindling of water flow in the river and extremely high levels of
pollution in the form of BoD”.
During arguments, the respondents had heavily relied upon on the
judgement of the Supreme Court in U.P. Employees Federation Case
relating to construction of Akshardham Temple. The order passed by
the Supreme Court would go to show that the larger issue now raised
before us were apparently not raised or gone into. In any case, in
view of the facts and circumstances of the present case and the great
many disputed issued raised before us, the said judgement, with
respect, cannot be treated as a binding precedent.
The Reports of the NEERI on which respondents had leaned heavily do
not paint this body in bright colours. Rather, they show how it has
changed colours and has not bothered to contradict itself. In its
report of 2005 first it spoke against “heavy capital investment” and
pleaded for “no large development activities except horticultural
operations and provisions of green linkages with the adjoining and
existing built up areas to maintain ecological balance and relief to
the public”. It also spoke of “maintenance of existing vegetation”
and warned against encroachments, building activity and “urban sprawl”
and in the very next breath it recommended release of vast chunk of
land “for urban activities”. Of course, my learned brother has also
noticed the subsequent report of the NEERI and its affidavit dated
January 29, 2008 and, with respect, I join him when he says “we are
constrained to observe that his affidavit is the result of some of the
loopholes in its earlier reports which were picked up by the
petitioners and pointed out to the court. From an institution of this
repute, it was not expected that report of this kind would be
submitted.”
It is not only NEERI, it is the Ministry of Environment and Forest
also which is equally guilty of changing its position. The proposal
of DDA (who happens to be respondent No. 5) for seeking approval for
the construction of the Commonwealth Games on the river bed came up
for appraisal by the Expert Appraisal Committee constituted by the
said Ministry. It is important to note that the Committee visited the
site and only thereafter, and obviously after due deliberations
emphasized that the proposed construction should not be of a permanent
nature and the structures raised should rather be dismantable.
Adopting those recommendations and agreeing with them, the Ministry
accorded clearance on 14.12.2006 observing as under:
“Since the design of the proposed structures is yet to be made, so far
as possible the work should not be of a permanent nature. It should be
possible to take this point into consideration and adopt dismantable
structures. Unless detailed studies lead to the conclusion that the
proposed structures can be left behind permanently, the proposals
should proceed with the assumption that the river bed may have to be
restored to the river.”
And within a span of few days that report was ignored, the condition
reproduced above was given a go-bye and the Delhi Development
Authority was signaled to go ahead with the construction works
“permanent or temporary” subject to certain conditions of little
significant. In any case, the DDA had no difficulty in obtaining
report from CWPRS, Pune which too, on closer scrutiny appears to be
dubious.
It is a sad story of men in haste fiddling with major issues and
resultantly playing havoc.
The significance and importance of the Commonwealth Games is not lost
on any one. Even the petitioners acknowledged it. The parties also
acknowledge the importance of economic development and the concept of
sustainable development. Even the ambit and scope of public trust
doctrine was not under challenge nor doubted and therefore, I need not
deal with all these aspects.. It may be stated even at the risk of
repetition that what was disputed was the impact of the building
activity on the Yamuna, its environment, ecology and the long term
damage which, it was stated by the petitioners was pregnant with
disaster.
As would be borne out from the above neither NEERI nor Ministry of
Environment and Forest nor DDA can be said to have acted fairly and
objectively. Their hands appear to be tainted. The issues involved
are of great significance and importance and they require
dispassionate, honest and thorough examination by experts of eminence
and impeccable integrity. Since my learned brother also feels the
same, we stand on the same pedestal. I do feel that constitution of a
Committee of Experts would help and with regard to that also I stand
by the side of my learned brother. It is a matter of great relief
that Dr. R.K. Pachauri has agreed to be the Chairman of the said
Committee. However, my learned brother is silent about the
constitution and other salient aspects concerning the Committee which
need to be spelled out in detail. Who will appoint the Committee ?
Who will be its members ? What exactly would be the scope of enquiry
by the Committee ? Can the Committee give interim report ? And to
whom ? Similarly to whom it is to give the final report ? And to
what effect ? These and other issues need to be dealt with. I
therefore issue the following directions:
(i) A Committee of Experts would be constituted by the Court under
the Chairmanship of Dr. R.K. Pachauri comprising of four members.
Each party is directed to propose two names for its members within
three weeks. Out of the proposed, the court shall appoint members in
consultation with the Chairman. The Chairman, may, at his discretion,
associate any non-members/expert/s. The Committee shall undertake
study of the constructions, whether proposed or completed or underway,
on the land in dispute and report within four months of its
constitution as to whether they or any of them, whether in whole or
in part affect or are likely to affect adversely, in any manner, the
ecology of Yamuna river bed or the ecology of Yamuna river, its ground
water recharge ability or violate in any manner, the public trust
doctrine. The Committee shall give reasonable opportunity of hearing
to the parties before formulating its reports. The parties shall
extend required assistance to the Committee.
(ii) On submission of the report, any of the parties may apply to the
Court for any further direction. The court may also suo-motu issue
further direction/s as may be deemed proper after notice to the
parties. All constructions whether complete or incomplete or proposed
to be constructed shall be subject to such directions as may be made
by the court on the receipt of the report / interim report of the
Committee of Experts.
(iii) If during the aforementioned study of the Committee of Experts,
the Committee finds that any construction, complete or incomplete or
proposed to be constructed adversely affects or is likely to affect
adversely the ecology of the river or its flood plain or is not in
accordance with the development plans as proposed and sanctioned
keeping in view the conditions on which environmental clearances had
been obtained and immediate remedial action is required, it may make
an interim report to the court. On receipt of such report, the Court
may suo-motu or on an application by any of the parties, pass such
order/direction/s as it may deem appropriate.
(iv) All third party interests created or proposed to be created on
the land in dispute or in the constructions made or proposed to be
made shall be subject to the directions as may be made by the court on
the submission of reports of the Committee of Experts. It may be
noticed here that we were told during the hearing that construction at
a massive scale was being carried out. We had made amply clear that
if despite the pendency of the writ-petitions the respondents or any
other person were raising constructions or were creating third party
interests they were doing so at their own peril. I reiterate that.
(v) The Central Government shall forthwith and not later than three
weeks provide all working facilities including adequate office space
and required staff to the Committee of Experts.
(vi) The directions with regard to the honorarium to the Chairman and
the Members of the Committee of Experts and the expenses shall be
issued later in consultation with the Chairman of the Committee of
Experts.
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 14:56:25 +0530
From: "Aarti Sethi" <aarti.sethi at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 13
To: dhatr1i at yahoo.com
Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
Message-ID:
<48c2916d0811040126m51eec8dpb3f3465c25722a6c at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Yes Dhatri it is indeed clister clear. Just as clister as everything
else you say. Regardless, why should Inder pose nude according to your
demands? I don't think this is a service he is offering just as yet.
Where he chooses to photograph himself in what attire is really
nothing to do with you. And what is this strange fetish you have about
nudity? I think we have all had this conversation before and we have
all told you that we find nothing shameful or unclean about the human
body, so why does nudity upset you so much?
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 10:45 AM, we wi <dhatr1i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Uncle Sam,
>
> It is not the nudity that you understand. You should watch INDER mails and LINK. It's not that I(we) said something , you(inder) said something. What the people on the List mean is Inder should visit some mosque of his choce(liberty has given), and implement HIS CRAZYNESS/MADNESS practically as he did it in on a "IDOl" . Photograph it and make available to the all users. Let everybody know, if it hurts everybody(including him) or not..
>
> Forget about Nudity, Idol worshipping, Manners in Society for time being, Peoples feelilngs/reaction is accountable. I hope it is clister clear now..
>
> Dhatri.
>
> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, samhoodx at aol.com <samhoodx at aol.com> wrote:
>
> From: samhoodx at aol.com <samhoodx at aol.com>
> Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 13
> To: reader-list at sarai.net
> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 7:15 PM
>
> correction:
>
> the sentence " however, nudity in temple art may or may not mean the
> same thing as inder's - or anyone else's - performed nudity in a temple
>
> today" should read:
>
> "however, inder's - or anyone else's - performed nudity in a
> temple
> today may or may not mean the same thing as nudity in temple art ."
>
> sam
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: samhoodx at aol.com
> To: reader-list at sarai.net
> Sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 8:38 am
> Subject: Fwd: [Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 13
>
> hi. you seem to have missed inder's response, just as dhatri did. so i
> am forwarding inder's response below the quoted part of your message.
> he says there is no tradition of nudity in islamic art, while hindu
> deities did not have any problem with nudity. that is correct. as you
> know, there is much nudity (and many varieties of intercourse, i might
> add) in hindu temple art, the most famous of which is khajuraho. there
> are many more examples of very high artistic sophistication, such as
> konark. apart from the philosophical content of its sanskrit texts,
> temple art and architecture are probably the most sophisticated
> elements in its corpus. however, nudity in temple art may or may not
> mean the same thing as inder's - or anyone else's - performed nudity in
> a temple today. it would be good to have a discussion on what it may or
> may not mean, and why.
>
>
> sam
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: rajendra bhat <raja_starkglass at yahoo.com>
>
>
> .... you have not bothered to reply as to why you were not civilised at
> martand temple parading and photographed in nude, but the same culture
> was absent at mosque, say at hajarathbal.?
>
>
> Nudity does not affect any of us as we are all products of nude coitus,
> of parents, but in civil society every civil act has a place, dining
> hall for dinner, coitus in bedroom, so if your culture is not to be
> civil, but only cultured, then have your culture same in all the places
> of worship.!
>
>
> Lot more love.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>> From: inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
>
>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Thinking Through Figures on Internal
>
>>> Displacement from Kashmir
>
>>> To: reader-list at sarai.net
>
>>> Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 4:14 PM
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> well, dear pawan
>
>>> how a North indian ( like you) can join Raj's Jai Mahrashtra
> slogan,
>
>>> it is beyond my comprehension.
>
>>>
>
>>> why mosque comes to your mind as and when you talk about Temple. how
>
>>> is your subconscious working, you might find an answer.
>
>>>
>
>>> how my nidity hits you below the belt, i dont understand. Hindu
>
>>> gods were always confortable with that. it is necessary, to say
>
>>> Female, as and when we say Male, Nudity is not always happening
>
>>> against the factor called ' garment' . it has some innocene
> involved
>
>>> int it, for example when we were born. there is no reference of any
>
>>> past which has nudity as part of mosque culture. so wherefrom this
>
>>> question?
>
>>>
>
>>> well, i have my own understanding of violence, and i believe our
>
>>> intolerance towards the other is the core reason.
>
>>>
>
>>> we all are victims at one point or the other, but how to join
>
>>> mobocracy is beyond my understanding of discourses on any subject.
>
>>>
>
>>> i am talking to you becasue you are in discourse on the List,
>
>>>
>
>>> and the moment you will throw stones on others, you will become a
>
>>> petty instrument of those who work from above and motivate the
> workers
>
>>> to act, the paid or unintelligent activits.
>
>>>
>
>>> you need to know that you are using words, like we, which are
> ambigous
>
>>> most of times, and so there is always scope for humour, wit, and
>
>>> profoundity at the same time.
>
>>>
>
>>> lot of love
>
>>> and regards
>
>>> is
>
>>>
>
>>> p.s. if you are still angry with me, please wrtie back to me outside
>
>>> the list, i will be happy to respond back, we can spare others from
>
>>> all this
>
>>>
>
>>> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Pawan Durani
> <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
>
>>> wrote:
>
>>> > IInder,
>
>>> >
>
>>> > till date i have not got a reply ohn when you would get yourslef
>
>>> > photographed in the Mosque premesis like you got one done in
> Martand
>
>>> Temple.
>
>>> >
>
>>> > Pawan
>
>>> >
>
>>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-requesDEFANGED.119>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 14:50:44 +0530
From: "Aarti Sethi" <aarti.sethi at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Thinking Through Figures on...
To: Kirdar <kirdarsingh at gmail.com>
Cc: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>, Shuddhabrata Sengupta
<shuddha at sarai.net>
Message-ID:
<48c2916d0811040120w71ed997dma6922f10c3e93fbd at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Dear Kirdar,
With all due respect, I honestly have nothing to prove to anybody
least all of all to the swarms of suffering KPs that populate this
list. I do not see why i should denounce this or that, make statements
in favour of this or that. I have been called terrorist-sympathizer
and much worse on this list, it bothers me not in the least. I am not
a public person, I do not hold public office, I am not a leader of any
movement, no one's life or work depends on me. I have therefore not
taken any thekka to pledge my support for the cause of the day. I
write about what I feel like and respond to what I feel like.
Unlike Aditya and Pawan who seem to suffer from a form of what could
be called "social Tourette's syndrome" (look it up kids), and need
constant and ever-increasing affirmation of their worth by thrusting
their wounded battered selves into our weary consciousnesses, I have
no such insecurities and fantasies.
I appreciate your attempting to resolve this, but you will soon
realise that the wounds on poor Aditya and Pawan are about the size of
a meteor's crater which mere human intervention can never hope to
fill. We would need Lord Krishna himself to chuck an inverted
Govardhan in as band-aid.
Good luck in your ministering efforts regardless.
best
Aarti
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 10:12 AM, Kirdar <kirdarsingh at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Pawan, since I am making an effort to bring some reconciliation
> between differing viewpoints, I am taking a liberty to forward your
> private mail to the list.
>
> Dear Shuddha, Aarti, Shivam etc. I agree with whatever you folks say,
> but I think what is needed here is a simple submission that you
> denounce "Muslim" militancy in Kashmir. It won't cost much. I know you
> do denounce it obviously, but you are not saying it in so many words
> because the situation is much more complicated - people on both sides
> have been affected equally badly - Kashmiri Pundits are not the only
> victimized people on earth. But their persistent irritation on this
> list has left such bad taste in your mouth that you don't feel upto
> helping their cause any way.
>
> But I request all of you to stop doubting each other's intentions, and
> come down to discussing practical ways of resolving our issues. I have
> decided to judge each day what sort of emails you folks forward (even
> news items such as "Islamic justice" and so on) to see whether you are
> interested in genuine resolution of issues or simply mud-slinging. Let
> the readers of this list judge what is your purpose in life.
>
> Jai myself/thyself
>
> Kirdar
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 1:04 AM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>> kirdar,
>>
>> when I having been so deeply involved in kashmir issue try to prove a
>> point u necessarily don't need to agree with me,for various reasons .
>>
>> shuddha is a character whom only victims of kashmir issue and islamic
>> terrorism can identify..
>>
>> till date this loose canon has not written a word against evident
>> islamic terrorism terrorism .
>>
>> I know where he is coming from and trust he wud repent if god forbid
>> he suffers because of it.
>>
>> Pawan durani
>> jai maharashtra jai hind jai panun kashmir issue
>>
> _________________________________________
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> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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------------------------------
t at sarai.net with subscribe in
> the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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>
>
>
> _________________________________________
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> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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- ------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 14:56:59 +0530
From: "Pawan Durani" <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Thinking Through Figures on...
To: "Aarti Sethi" <aarti.sethi at gmail.com>
Cc: Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net>, sarai list
<reader-list at sarai.net>
Message-ID:
<6b79f1a70811040126r6b3225c5xfb8cb9ba06df6c27 at mail.gmail.com>
Aarti,
This list belongs as much to me as it does to any leftist from JNU.
When would i hear you sing ?
Pawan
On 11/4/08, Aarti Sethi <aarti.sethi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Kirdar,
>
> With all due respect, I honestly have nothing to prove to anybody
> least all of all to the swarms of suffering KPs that populate this
> list. I do not see why i should denounce this or that, make statements
> in favour of this or that. I have been called terrorist-sympathizer
> and much worse on this list, it bothers me not in the least. I am not
> a public person, I do not hold public office, I am not a leader of any
> movement, no one's life or work depends on me. I have therefore not
> taken any thekka to pledge my support for the cause of the day. I
> write about what I feel like and respond to what I feel like.
>
> Unlike Aditya and Pawan who seem to suffer from a form of what could
> be called "social Tourette's syndrome" (look it up kids), and need
> constant and ever-increasing affirmation of their worth by thrusting
> their wounded battered selves into our weary consciousnesses, I have
> no such insecurities and fantasies.
>
> I appreciate your attempting to resolve this, but you will soon
> realise that the wounds on poor Aditya and Pawan are about the size of
> a meteor's crater which mere human intervention can never hope to
> fill. We would need Lord Krishna himself to chuck an inverted
> Govardhan in as band-aid.
>
> Good luck in your ministering efforts regardless.
>
> best
> Aarti
>
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 10:12 AM, Kirdar <kirdarsingh at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dear Pawan, since I am making an effort to bring some reconciliation
> > between differing viewpoints, I am taking a liberty to forward your
> > private mail to the list.
> >
> > Dear Shuddha, Aarti, Shivam etc. I agree with whatever you folks say,
> > but I think what is needed here is a simple submission that you
> > denounce "Muslim" militancy in Kashmir. It won't cost much. I know you
> > do denounce it obviously, but you are not saying it in so many words
> > because the situation is much more complicated - people on both sides
> > have been affected equally badly - Kashmiri Pundits are not the only
> > victimized people on earth. But their persistent irritation on this
> > list has left such bad taste in your mouth that you don't feel upto
> > helping their cause any way.
> >
> > But I request all of you to stop doubting each other's intentions, and
> > come down to discussing practical ways of resolving our issues. I have
> > decided to judge each day what sort of emails you folks forward (even
> > news items such as "Islamic justice" and so on) to see whether you are
> > interested in genuine resolution of issues or simply mud-slinging. Let
> > the readers of this list judge what is your purpose in life.
> >
> > Jai myself/thyself
> >
> > Kirdar
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 1:04 AM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> kirdar,
> >>
> >> when I having been so deeply involved in kashmir issue try to prove a
> >> point u necessarily don't need to agree with me,for various reasons .
> >>
> >> shuddha is a character whom only victims of kashmir issue and islamic
> >> terrorism can identify..
> >>
> >> till date this loose canon has not written a word against evident
> >> islamic terrorism terrorism .
> >>
> >> I know where he is coming from and trust he wud repent if god forbid
> >> he suffers because of it.
> >>
> >> Pawan durani
> >> jai maharashtra jai hind jai panun kashmir issue
> >>
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
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> subscribe in the subject header.
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>
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