[Reader-list] Fwd: Fwd: reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 13

Wed Nov 5 12:03:36 IST 2008

Dear Sam,

        I am not a teacher.  As you only said 

>>>no, dhatri, nothing is crystal clear
>>>now the things i find confusing:  etc  you need explanation/clarification.  Hmm,

      I didn't address you with disrespect, rather I addressed you with full manners.  Let me say if your name is SAM and I say Uncle isn't full respect?.  Why should I add an Uncle before sam?  Because you are trying to give meaning/bring color to INDER's mail 
in different way which can change the focus of the topic(a total diversion) and there by reduce the tension and feelings(knowingly or unknowingly).  Hence you are an UNCLE.   

       Neither I nor INDER do belong/represent to US,  there is no such deep logic as you are pointing in Inder's mail.  Not only that samhood and INDER never be the same like few of the list member thought I and a,b,c...z are one and the same during my joining and later.

The logic you built upon United states and the concerning argumentative mail story doesn't stand anywhere just not in logic(predicate/proportional/advanced/reverse).  I request you to read the mails carefully twice,thrice....  then come to a conclusion.   

Regards, 
Dhatri.

--- On Wed, 11/5/08, samhoodx at aol.com <samhoodx at aol.com> wrote:

From: samhoodx at aol.com <samhoodx at aol.com>
Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fwd: reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 13
To: reader-list at sarai.net
Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 12:15 AM

dhatri, 

no, dhatri, nothing is crystal clear. i will explain what i mean. but
first let me remind you that i did not address you or rajendra in
anything but a respectful way. manners, which you demand from inder in
your post, also demanded - from you, and in the same post - that you
reciprocate the respect i had shown to you and rajendra. but that
appears to have escaped you. you lacked manners, if i may say so, even
in mocking me - the least i would have expected is an explanation as to
why you were doing so. 

now the things i find confusing: 

i fail to understand why you call me "uncle sam", which is a symbol
of
the united states. do you think i am a representative of the united
states? if you do, would you mind telling me why? if that is not what
you meant, what did you? 

but then you also indicate that i am inder salim. why? 

by your logic, then, inder salim, whose identity seems to be known to
members of this list, is a representative of the United States. why do
you think that is the case? how does one know you are not a
representative of the US yourself? 

for that matter, how does one know you are not in fact a representative
of al qaeda trying to bring about, or deepen, a communal divide in the
indian academic community? 

if you take a moment to read my post, which you have quoted, you will
see that i did not support inder's action. i did two things in that
post. i pointed out that inder had put across a certain logic, which
you and rajendra appeared to have missed. in your present post, you
seem to say that it is a matter of sentiment. that the sentiments of
most hindus would be hurt by inder's photograph is, i think, beyond
doubt. but sentiment also has its basis in the psychological and
cultural domains. in other words, they can be explained. by not
responding to inder's logic, you appear to have conceded defeat in the
area of logic and explanation. 

the second thing i did in my post - suggest that we try to clarify why
something that was valued in temple decorations across India is hurtful
in a performance in a temple today - was an attempt to clarify your
logic. however, i can see that i have failed, and will not expect any
logic in your posts from now on. 

sam 

-----Original Message----- 

From: we wi <dhatr1i at yahoo.com> 

To: samhoodx at aol.com 

Cc: reader-list at sarai.net 

Sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:15 am 

Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd:  reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 13 

Uncle Sam, 

     It is not the nudity that you understand. You should watch INDER
mails and LINK.   It's not that I(we) said something , you(inder) said
something.  What the people on the List mean is Inder should visit some
mosque of his choce(liberty has given),  and implement HIS
CRAZYNESS/MADNESS practically as he did it in on a "IDOl" . 
Photograph
it and make available to the all users. Let everybody know, if it hurts
everybody(including him) or not. 

Forget about Nudity, Idol worshipping, Manners in Society for time
being, Peoples feelilngs/reaction is accountable.  I hope it is clister
clear now. 

Dhatri. 

--- On Mon, 11/3/08, samhoodx at aol.com <samhoodx at aol.com> wrote: 

From: samhoodx at aol.com <samhoodx at aol.com> 

Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 13 

To: reader-list at sarai.net 

Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 7:15 PM 

correction: 

the sentence " however, nudity in temple art may or may not mean the 

same thing as inder's - or anyone else's - performed nudity in a
temple 

today" should read: 

"however, inder's - or anyone else's - performed nudity in a 

temple 

today may or may not mean the same thing as nudity in temple art ." 

sam 

-----Original Message----- 

From: samhoodx at aol.com 

To: reader-list at sarai.net 

Sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 8:38 am 

Subject: Fwd: [Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 13 

hi. you seem to have missed inder's response, just as dhatri did. so i 

am forwarding inder's response below the quoted part of your message. 

he says there is no tradition of nudity in islamic art, while hindu 

deities did not have any problem with nudity. that is correct. as you 

know, there is much nudity (and many varieties of intercourse, i might 

add) in hindu temple art, the most famous of which is khajuraho. there 

are many more examples of very high artistic sophistication, such as 

konark. apart from the philosophical content of its sanskrit texts, 

temple art and architecture are probably the most sophisticated 

elements in its corpus. however, nudity in temple art may or may not 

mean the same thing as inder's - or anyone else's - performed nudity
in 

a temple today. it would be good to have a discussion on what it may or 

may not mean, and why. 

sam 

-----Original Message----- 

From: rajendra bhat <raja_starkglass at yahoo.com> 

..... you have not bothered to reply as to why you were not civilised at 

martand temple parading and photographed in nude, but the same culture 

was absent at mosque, say at hajarathbal.? 

Nudity does not affect any of us as we are all products of nude coitus, 

of parents, but in civil society every civil act has a place, dining 

hall for dinner, coitus in bedroom, so if your culture is not to be 

civil, but only cultured, then have your culture same in all the places 

of worship.! 

Lot more love. 

>> From: inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com> 

>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Thinking Through Figures on Internal 

>> Displacement from Kashmir 

>> To: reader-list at sarai.net 

>> Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 4:14 PM 

>> 

>> 

>> well, dear pawan 

>> how a North indian ( like you) can join Raj's Jai Mahrashtra 

slogan, 

>> it is beyond my comprehension. 

>> 

>> why mosque comes to your mind as and when you talk about Temple. how 

>> is your subconscious working, you might find an answer. 

>> 

>> how my nidity hits you below the belt, i dont understand. Hindu 

>> gods were always confortable with that. it is necessary, to say�=A0

>> Female, as and when we say Male, Nudity is not always happening 

>> against the factor called ' garment' . it has some innocene 

involved 

>> int it, for example when we were born. there is no reference of any 

>> past which has nudity as part of mosque culture. so wherefrom this 

>> question? 

>> 

>> well, i have my own understanding of violence, and i believe our 

>> intolerance towards the other is the core reason. 

>> 

>> we all are victims at one point or the other, but how to join 

>> mobocracy is beyond my understanding of discourses on any subject. 

>> 

>> i am talking to you becasue you are in discourse on the List, 

>> 

>> and the moment you will throw stones on others, you will become a 

>> petty instrument of those who work from above and motivate the 

workers 

>> to act, the paid or unintelligent activits. 

>> 

>> you need to know that you are using words, like we, which are 

ambigous 

>> most of times, and so there is always scope for humour, wit, and 

>> profoundity at the same time. 

>> 

>> lot of love 

>> and regards 

>> is 

>> 

>> p.s. if you are still angry with me, please wrtie back to me outside 

>> the list, i will be happy to respond back, we can spare others from 

>> all this 

>> 

>> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Pawan Durani 

<pawan.durani at gmail.com> 

>> wrote: 

>> > IInder, 

>> > 

>> > till date i have not got a reply ohn when you would get
yourslef 

>> > photographed in the Mosque premesis like you got one done in 

Martand 

>> Temple. 

>> > 

>> > Pawan 

>> > 

>> > 

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