[Reader-list] (no subject)

Wed Nov 5 21:14:01 IST 2008

Dear Kshemendra,

>>>Why is this important to be understood? Because it is important for India. Muslims are >>>a part of India. They belong to India and India belongs to them as much as these >>>definitions and claim of relationship holds true for any other people in India. Demonising >>>Muslims or Islam is an attack on a substantially large number of Indians.

  Its contradictory to the formation of PAKISTAN and later its illegal occupation and possession of INDIAN TERRITORIES.  They ruined INDIA and its great history starting from Ghazani to Aurangazeb the worst and now its more worsen the situation.

The peace can be possible and Kashmir issue will be resolved immediately 

1) After RETURN OF POK to INDIA and rest of the occupations from CHINA .
2) Muslims those who all can't live peacefully within INDIA can go to PAKISTAN and settle 
   there and live peacefully?  Why the so much damage inside INDIA?  Why the double  
   standards?
3) There are so much moves happened at the time of PARTITION why not now a 2nd 
    time????

   Why so many complications and why nobody thinking in this way!  Why to hurt the sentiments or whatever?

Regards,
Dhatri.

--- On Tue, 11/4/08, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Islamic justice
To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 5:44 PM

Dear Aditya

I have been deliberating with myself since last night when I first read your
mail, about writing to you. I must, I finally decided, for the sake of my own
convictions, for the sake of India for which you often speak and perhaps for
your own sake too. I hope you will understand why it was important for me to
write.

It was improper of you to title your post as "Islamic Justice" when
the body of the News Report draws no such generalised inference.

On 22/08/08, Shivam Vij posted  with the Subject Line "Hindu terrorism
in Jammu", a News Report of "Protestors attack Congress Leader".
He was guilty of distortions meant to provoke divisiveness. You are guilty of
the same.

Shuddha took issue with what Shivam had done. Shivam apologised.

What has been reported from Somalia is in no way "Islamic Justice".
An act carried out 'in the name of Islam' does not automatically make
it an 'Islamic act'. There are many practices 'in the name of
Islam' which do not find sanction in 'Purist Islam'.

'Death by Stoning' is not a punishment sanctioned in the Quran. The
Quran also says that no punishment should exceed the punishments specified in
the Quran. 80 lashes is the punishment for adultery. But in the case of this 13
year old girl it is rape by 3 men and not adultery.

Many practices with 'tribal roots' prior to Mohammed continued after
his death and some during his lifetime too. They continued during the reigns of
the first 4 Khalifas and thereafter too. Today they have diminished amongst many
of the concentrated Muslim societies that call themselves Islamic.

"Death by stoning" is not sanctioned amongst many Muslim societies,
nor is 'death for adultery' sanctioned. It is Un-Islamic.

Amongst 'thinking' Muslim societies there is extensive discussion on
how 'rape' should be evaluated as being distinctly different from
'adultery'. This has become important due to the obsfucation that had
taken place between 'adultery' and 'rape'. Connectedly the
'3 eyewitnesses' requirement for establishing non-sanctioned sexual
union has given way in the case of 'rape' to 'witness' provided
by the victim's statement, body injuries, forensic evidence from body fluids
and other DNA material and also circumstantial evidence.

Just to give one another example of attempts by Muslims to do away with some
degraded practices followed 'in the name of Islam', you would know that
many Muslim societies have discarded the 3 simultaneous pronouncements of the
word "talaaq" as sealing a divorce.

Similarly, inspite of being torn between 'individualised
thought/understanding' and the pressures of 'expected allegiances'
combined with 'propagated interpretations' increasing number of Muslims
are re-thinking terms like "Jihad'.

The point is whether one should appreciate the struggles of Muslims who are
discarding degraded practices/interpretations 'in the name of Islam'
or whether one should speak and act in a manner to support them and
reassure them in a manner that would not make them 'blacksheep' in the
Islamic Fold.

Why am I concerned about this? Because it is important for India.

To put in in perspective the affairs of the Muslims, an excellent
comparativeness is available from looking at those known as "Hindus".
They struggled in doing so but discarded such degraded practices as Sati, Child
Sacrifice, Human Sacrifice. Some practices that might have at some time made
some sense for the design of societies at that time were judged as
being discriminatory and done away with such as "eldest son being sole
inheritor/dispenser" - the role of the "Karta". A similar
situation exists with 'dowry' and "Hindus' are still struggling
with that 'evil'.

For that matter, many of the practices that might have in principle been done
away with still find themselves being practised amongst
"Hindus" every now and then and here and there, some more frequently
than others.

One of the most abominable practices amongst "Hindus" which I
personally evaluate as having done the greatest harm to "Hinduism" is
the degradation that took place in the "Varna" precept getting
transformed into 'superiority of one caste over the other' (does not
matter whether by birth or prfession). "Hindus" are still struggling
with that decadence.

If you understand this 'struggle' to become 'better' amongst
the "Hindus" then you would/should also appreciate the
"struggle' to become 'better' amongst the "Muslims".

Just as a "terrorist acts" and "gegraded practices by
"Hindus" or 'in the name of Hinduism' are not representative
of "Hinduism" or "All Hindus", similarly "terrorist
acts" and "gegraded practices by "Muslims" or 'in the
name of Islam' are not representative of "Islam" or "All
Muslims"

Why is this important to be understood? Because it is important for India..
Muslims are a part of India. They belong to India and India belongs to them as
much as these definitions and claim of relationship holds true for any other
people in India. Demonising Muslims or Islam is an attack on a substantially
large number of Indians.

Anyone, who by speech or action will bring harm to the integrity of India is an
enemy of India. Anyone who will seek by word or action to bring around divides
amongst the people of India is an enemy of India.

I do not see you as an enemy of India so it was important for me to speak to
you. I hope you understand.

Kshmendra

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:05 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul
<kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/03/somalia-rape-amnesty
>
> *Somalian rape victim, 13, stoned to death.*
> Chris McGreal, Africa correspondent The Guardian,
> Monday November 3 2008
>
> An Islamist rebel administration in Somalia has had a 13-year-old
> girl stoned to death for adultery after the child's father reported
> that she was raped by three men.
>
> Amnesty International said al-Shabab militia, which controls the
> southern city of Kismayo, arranged for 50 men to stone Aisha Ibrahim
> Duhulow in front of about 1,000 spectators. A lorry load of stones
> was brought to the stadium for the killing.
>
> Amnesty said Duhulow struggled with her captors and had to be
> forcibly carried into the stadium.
>
> "At one point during the stoning, Amnesty International has been told
> by numerous eyewitnesses that nurses were instructed to check whether
> Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow was still alive when buried in the ground. They
> removed her from the ground, declared that she was, and she was
> replaced in the hole where she had been buried for the stoning to
> continue," the human rights group said. It continued: "Inside
the
> stadium, militia members opened fire when some of the witnesses to
> the killing attempted to save her life, and shot dead a boy who was a
> bystander."
>
> Amnesty said Duhulow was originally reported by witnesses as being 23
> years old, based on her appearance, but established from her father
> that she was a child. He told Amnesty that when they tried to report
> her rape to the militia, the child was accused of adultery and
> detained. None of the men accused was arrested.
>
> "This was not justice, nor was it an execution," said
Amnesty's
> Somalia campaigner, David Copeman. "This killing is yet another human
> rights abuse committed by the combatants to the conflict in Somalia,
> and again demonstrates the importance of international action to
> investigate and document such abuses, through an international
> commission of inquiry."
>
>
>
> --
> Aditya Raj Kaul
>
> Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India
> Cell - +91-9873297834
>
> Campaign Blog: http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/
> Personal Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/
> _________________________________________
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