[Reader-list] 2 to 5 daily dead in Kashmir. A filthy lie by Gowhar Fazli.

[Kshmendra Kaul]

Dear Gowhar Fazli
 
The protagonist "HE" in the conversation you have posted is a filthy liar. If you yourself are the "HE" then you are a filthy liar.
 
I refer to the statement:
 
 """""" The valley has seen two to five people dead on a daily basis since Amarnath land row."""""""
 
It is true that 'innocents' have died in the 'valley' since the start of the Amarnath Land Row. I consider any such death as sad, unfortunate and unacceptable for a civilized society. I consider even the deaths of those who have consciously chosen the path of violence to further their agenda as being sad, unfortunate, regretable and avoidable.   
 
But that does not mean that 'morons' like you should have the licence to float blatant lies on this List or any other place, perhaps with the smug thought that you will not be questioned.  
 
Do you want to contest my declaring you a 'filthy liar'?
 
 I invite you to evidence the statement of 2 to 5 deaths daily in the 'valley' since the start of the Amarnath Land Row. You can choose any credible news source of your choice. A credible  news source would for sure have a presence on the Web where your statement can be confirmed as being 'truthful' or as being a 'filthy lie' as I have called it. 
 
Kshmendra


--- On Sat, 11/8/08, gowhar fazli <gowharfazili at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: gowhar fazli <gowharfazili at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Reader-list] She, Me and Obah Muah!
To: "reader-list at sarai.net" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 5:17 PM

SHE: gud one!! The status!! Ha ha!!  (Commenting on my status of OBAH MUAH!)

HE: :)

SHE: actually it was my kind of romance and bollywud magic that day on tv
...drama, suspense, tears, smooches and kisses....wah!!!

HE: and compare the two elections... one in Kashmir n one in US!

SHE: How can there be any comparison.....look at the conduct of political
parties in jk, the language and hate for each other....more to blame is also
Hurriyat....even in larger mainstream India......in fact in south Asia, the
polity is mired with corruption, vote bank and slur....we still have to grow as
a democracy...remember we are only 60..as compared to US 200. As far as Kashmir
is concerned...Hurriyat is doing what exactly they blame the Indian govt of
doing...I was speaking to Gousia Bashir, a young woman contesting from
Bandipora...the kind of threats she is receiving... what does the Hurriyat want
...Governor rule....I know of so many of them who have used and subverted
democratic institutions for their own interest. U know the major draw back in
our part of the world is that we do not have the courage for self correctness,
self introspection.....USA did that....they have brought in change...I admire
that...
baithey gen tou baat kargengen....

HE: hmmm I have my own take on this though I agree in part with yours
 
SHE: there are always many takes to Kashmir
what was the need for Hurriyat to give a call for Jamia Chalo for killing of 5
lakhs muslims in Jammu in 1947.....

HE: Given the fact that 10 lakh people protested in Kashmir for Azadi and were
forced indoors by shooting on the protests... Kashmir is in no mood for election
right now... yet it has to be imposed... without any negotiation with the
leadership opposed to it. All that the government can offer is to impose a
conventional election to meet its deadline to show that all is well in Kashmir.
It is not.
  I think the bigger problem is this not the morality of our local politicians.
the conditions we live in can only produce the kind of politicians we presently
have.
 USA did tolerate a bastard like Bush for eight years before it was time for
Obama to come in... in Kashmir Delhi decides how Kashmiris should behave and who
should be in power.
Kashmiri leadership has to suite India’s self-image its foreign policy and
morality.

SHE:  you forget that people who are standing for elections ( record number
filled in nomination...to counter each other , their party workers shouting anti
India slogans )  or people wanting to vote are also Kashmiris. Even Panun
Kashmir is boycotting elections, though for different reasons. They are
Kashmiris too and many other pandits who want to vote are Kashmiris too...so are
the Sikhs and not to forget there are Ladhakis , Poocnhis, etc who want to
vote...no one is shying away from resolving the issue...spell out the  agenda
and ideology and let people decide, why intimidate them, kill them...why instill
so much hatred in them...and when I say they..I mean all those, religious
groups, media, separatist so called nationalist.... who want to build their own
constituencies … be it valley, Jammu or anywhere else...as I said we need to
sit and talk....chatting on these issues is bit difficult...


HE: I didn’t forget them... Ladakhis, Pandits, Jammu-ites, and all those who
want to vote for various reasons...  Yet  daily killing to keep people to keep
them from demonstrating for Azadi or protesting against elections (peacefully I
do not see pelting stones at heavily armed security forces from by lanes as
serious violence especially when you are permanently held under section 144)
cannot be justified because some people there or elsewhere want to vote.  The
context in which elections are happening is pure imposition... more of what has
been happening all along.  
 Given the circumstances in Kashmir, spelling out agendas is not possible and
largely the establishment which wields power in Kashmir is responsible for
maintaining such a situation there.    There is too much intelligence
interference... too much security structure to allow people to breathe... let
alone have a Democratic process.  Too much of humiliation on the daily basis to
let a person feel human enough...   Even those who were alienated from religion
or primordial identities are being pushed to adopt these for bare survival.  In
wake of this the only articulation that is possible is hate or violence.  You
cannot sit on someone’s throat and ask him/her to talk peace.  They might
oblige until you get off... but then hate you with all the intensity they can
muster soon after that.
 I think the situation is like this... We have beaten Kashmiris to the point of
making them into brutes... and now we justify the continuity of violence by
saying look they are actually brutes and deserve it!
 Two stints of stooge governments in Kashmir since late nineties should have
given a breather to India to bring about a serious dialogue.  But what do they
do? Decide that the temporary lull is the solution and squander the chance. 
 We cannot maintain the facade of moral preachers after all that has happened
in Kashmir.  We must bow our heads in shame and let the people have their say. 
Even though what they decide might not be to our liking and in our opinion
disastrous for them.   Too often our personal interests get enmeshed with our
moral visions and cloud our judgment such that we cannot see what is actually
happening to people.  
At least I for one have stopped passing judgments on the people of Kashmir and
demonizing them.  I hope more of the civil society activists who engage with
Kashmir will begin to do so.

When you refer to intimidation and killing i am surprised that you miss out the
biggest killing machine in motion right now... the CRPF!  You see we percieve
different realities because of where each of us is located.  The valley has seen
two to five people dead on a daily basis since Amarnath land row.  This seems to
be the current policy.  CRPF is communalised.  I have my batchmates within the
force and they give horrifying accounts of how the force percieves ordinary
Kashmiri's as worthy of being killed or humiliated for no reason but for
what they are.




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