[Reader-list] Safety of list-members

Mon Nov 17 20:42:15 IST 2008

Dear Aditya,

1) There has been 'name calling' on us. (Hindu Terrorists, Fundamentalists,
> Extremists etc)

I have asked you before to reproduce one mail where I have called you a
Hindu terrorist, and you have been unable to do so. Because I have not. In
the absence of this, you will have to retract a demand for an apology from
me. Either that, or produce the evidence.

> 2) People wanted to attempt 'sucide' if we openly discussed about this
> particular community.

I do not see why Kirdar should apologize for this. He is speaking about
himself, it says nothing about you. You may wish he had the forbearance to
hear you indefinitely, he doesn't, perhaps he is weak, and you can laugh at
him, but he has not maligned you by saying this.

> 3) We were even asked to 'shut up' more than once.

Again, not me. Find the mail. Though you have said this to me on several
occasions so maybe you now need to apologise to me hm?

>
> 4) Indirect filthy comments have become quite frequent now against us.

Again, no point throwing vague generalities in our direction Aditya. If
there were a competition tomorrow on "indirect filthy comments" you would
win hands down.

>
> 5) 'Brain gone on a holiday' wasn't a descent way to answer.

I agree. It wasn't. It is certainly not model list etiquette by any means
for which I apologize to the list at large. Conversations should be at a
level far higher than this and I apologize for flooding people's inboxes
with pointless bickering.

> 6) Attacks by a few individuals on our community, religion, Gods etc.

Lets not even go here. Who has attacked your religion or your Gods? Don't
make vague obfuscatory statements. Pray tell us, of what has this "attack"
consisted? Indeed far from anyone attacking "your" religion, you have
decided who is "hindu" and who is not on the list. Who gave you that right?

> I don't need to substantiate or provide any proof of the same, the list has
> a well maintained archive, which can even easily be accessed through Google
> Search. One may click and few buttons to understand things better.

Of course you don't need to substantiate anything. Thats not your style. Ad
hominem attacks and unsubstantiated allegations is more up your alley isn't
it? However, if you wish me to apologise, you will have to provide evidence
which you have not.

>
>
> There is no 'ego' barrier for me to apologise. But 'what for ?' is my
> question. Let the so called 'intellectuals' on this forum clean up their
> language first, be a bit more patient, understanding and as well learn the
> art of peaceful discussion, and academic argument.

'What for'? I think it has been spelled out what for. For defamation. If you
are now demanding apologies for "conduct" broadly defined, then I'm afraid
Aditya you will have to start by cleaning up your act. I see no reason why,
now that you are up against the wall for making defamatory statements
against list members for which you have been asked to apologise, you can
produce some tit-for-tat narrative in which we have to apologise for
something you have not been held to account for the two miserable years of
your existence on this list. If you wished us to engage with you in certain
form, then perhaps you should have desisted from swearing, abusing and
generally attacking members and creating a list environment in which a
certain modality of intercation becomes normalized. Now you've made your
bed, unfortunately you will have to lie in it.

Regards
Aarti

> On 11/16/08, Monica Narula <monica at sarai.net> wrote:
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > My mail as a list administrator has been understood in various ways.
> > The most unfortunate reading has been one of seeing the whole episode
> > as one of victimization of Kashmiri pandits in the list.  This is
> > ridiculous. I cannot answer each bravado-filled mail...
> >
> > Lawrence's mail is very clear on one ground - there is a public life
> > of the list outside its subscriber base. The safety of list-members
> > (in as much as what they say and discuss on the platform but which is
> > accessible to the whole world) is under threat because of accusations
> > of a grave nature being loosely bandied about. This is all the more
> > dangerous as the allegations are never substantiated and they act as
> > repressors of speech and exchange. This fearful climate that is being
> > generated through the list is something that is deeply disturbing.
> >
> > Keeping this context, I request Aditya and Pawan to apologize to list
> > members against whom they have made numerous and un-substantiated
> > accusations of dubious sources of funds. The apology needs to be made
> > on the list so that the archive can have this as a record. This is
> > serious and i hope all of you understand that in today's climes it is
> > critical to maintain a sense of balance, ensure at least minimum
> > safety for all list members, and keep alive the creative and
> > investigative freedoms associated with this list.
> >
> >   From on, this list's public statement will have the following:
> >
> > "Code of Conduct for discussions on the list:
> >
> > 1) no person, whosoever they may be should make any allegations on
> > the personal conduct of another list member or any other third
> > person, without offering proof for the same. Should this proof be
> > found  wanting, they should apologize.
> >
> > 2) that people voluntarily agree to refrain from making sexist and
> > homophobic remarks or use racist language of any kind.
> >
> > On 3 infringement of these the person's list subscription will be
> > terminated."
> >
> > I sincerely hope that this is clear and understandable to all.
> >
> > best
> >
> > Monica
> >
> > list admin
> >
> >
> >
> > Monica Narula
> > Raqs
> > Sarai-CSDS
> > 29 Rajpur Road
> > Delhi 110 054
> > www.raqsmediacollective.net
> > www.sarai.net
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> Aditya Raj Kaul
>
> Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India
> Cell - +91-9873297834
>
> Campaign Blog: http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/
> Personal Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
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>