[Reader-list] Being Muslim in "India Today"

[Prabhakar Singh]

Dear Tapas,

Thanks a lot for all the help so far.Kindly help me further by getting me out of this list.

In brief, I am very passionate about my roots,origin,parents,alma mater,nation,religion,heritage etc. and I am very proud of it.I can not tolerate anybody touching them.There are people who are more than willing to comprise or even take pride in abusing or insulting them in the name reasoning or their perverse intellectualism.

With warm regards,

Prabhakar



----- Original Message ----
From: Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
To: reader-list at sarai.net
Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 8:22:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Being Muslim in "India Today"

Dear Prabhakar and Lalit,

Prabhakar, as you were my batchmate at one of the IITs and I am the one 
who introduced you to this list in the context of a list member's 
abusive attack on our common alma mater, I must confess to being a 
little concerned about offending you with this post, in which I shall be 
contradicting your argument. Hope you will take it not personally but in 
the spirit of a reasoned conversation about an extremely divisive issue 
that is vitally important to us both and to every Indian, and indirectly 
important to the rest of the world.

Although I simply cannot afford to take the time to read Reader-list 
posts at this time, much less post comments myself, I am now writing 
specifically with you in mind, because I would like you, as my 
batchmate, to know what I think is correct and why I think so. Apologies 
in advance if I take a long time to respond to your, Lalit's or anyone 
else's response to this post.

That said, what I understand from a quick scan of the two comments 
posted by the two of you (below) is that (a) Hindus are treated shabbily 
in India, (b) Hindu extremism is a reaction to Muslim extremism in 
Kashmir, and (c) someone with a Muslim name (partly in the case of 
Samina) should not criticize views held by Hindus - a *section* of 
Hindus in this case, as your views are not held by all Hindus as you can 
see on this list, as well as in the election results of the last decade 
or more.

I think those Hindus who believe in argument (a) need to rethink the 
issue in light of concrete socio-economic indicators, such as levels of 
employment, education, etc., which are far lower for Muslims as far as I 
know (though cannot cite figures at this time) and social practices that 
result from a view - held to this day by what I believe is a large 
section of Hindus - of Muslims as being alien and socially unacceptable. 
A linguistic expression of this is the practice of referring to Muslims 
in the words for which Radhikarajen was banned from this list. It would 
be inappropriate to mention here the very common Hindi word of the 
street which Radhikarajen translated into English, and which I am sure 
most if not all Indians on this list are already familiar with.

Argument (b) is ahistorical in my opinion. Radical Hinduism in fact 
preceded not only radical Islamism but even Jinnah-style Islamic 
politics. I pointed this out to Radhikarajen in the course of a 
prolonged conversation. Please excuse me for being unable to reproduce 
it here, but it can be found in the archive.

As for argument (c), I think one's affiliation is irrelevant to his or 
her right to criticize something. The argument that someone with a Hindu 
name should not criticize the views of some Hindus or even Hinduism 
itself, goes against modern values, which since the Enlightenment has 
taught us to be rational, i.e., judge everything by reason and nothing 
else. There are different kinds of rationality, of course, and 
Enlightenment rationality has had some very negative consequences, but I 
am referring specifically to that aspect of it which taught Christians 
to criticize and challenge the church in Europe and Indian Hindus to 
criticize and challenge Hinduism in the "Indian/Bengal Renaissance".

The first led to an arguably better Christianity (in most denominations) 
without excommunication, inquisition, burning at the stake, etc. The 
second led to an arguably better Hinduism *as a whole* without sati 
(with exceptions that take place even now), virulent casteism (except 
for certain regions in which caste-based killings and massacres still 
take place now and then), ban on widow remarriage, etc., and a kind of 
liberalism in Indian society as a whole, reflected in the Constitution, 
that would have been unthinkable before it - and aspects of which, such 
as the ban on sati, the already enlightened British rulers initially 
opposed on political considerations.

The question now is, are we ready to renounce those values? Personally, 
I consider myself perfectly within my rights to criticize not only my 
own religion but also my ethnic group, city, state, country, alma mater 
and so on, right down to my own parents.

Best,

Tapas


Prabhakar Singh wrote:
> I agree with you Lalit !
> One should not try to belittle Hindus in India where their population is more than 80%.A majority population should not be treated so shabbily like this by the minorities.Samina should think about it before blaming Hindus for everything.If her hate for Hindus is so intense she should correct her name first and remove Mishra from it.It appears that this forum is dedicated for creating Hindu-Muslim divide and hatred in the society.We should have some restraint while writing because we are responsible to the society and the nation as a whole.Try to integrate not divide.
> Regards,
> Prabhakar
> 

> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Lalit Ambardar <lalitambardar at hotmail.com>
> To: Samina Mishra <saminasarai at gmail.com>; reader-list at sarai.net
> Sent: Monday, 13 October, 2008 11:54:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Being Muslim in "India Today"
> 
> One wonders why does your ( it is not directed at any individual,please- it is all those who flaunt their so called self acquired secular credentials only selectively) clock stop at the demolition of that disputed dilapidated structure in Ayodhya ?Come December 6, you have every body writing obituaries to the demolished structure.This dispute has a history.
> 
> If only you had cared to know & speak about how kalashnikov wielding Kashmiri pan Islamists roamed freely in the streets of Kashmir & selectively targetted hapless Hindu Pandits in 1989-90 forcing them to flee leaving their homes & hearths behind. World continues to remain silent as the Hindu Pandits continue to live as refugees in their own country. The secular activism also went dumb when brazen intolerance was displayed in Srinagar streets recently against allotment of a mere 100 acres of land for the development of temporary facilities along the arduous Amarnath pilgrimage route at those uninhabitable heights.
> Similarly  no concern is shown for those credulous wailing mothers,orphans,widows whose  dear ones continue to fall prey to  pan islamic indoctrination & the  mindless bloody violent movement that seeks secession of Muslim majority Kashmir valley from  secular india. Terror commanders who self admittedly brought in weapons from across the borders & founded 'gun' culture in the valley have been allowed to wear the of politicians' masks,  courtesy the self acclaimed secularists. It was India Today that hosted one such pan Islamist terror commander as a panelist along with who & who of Indian elite in their convention held in March this year- according him international celebrity status. There wasn't any uproar. Only poor Kashmiri Hindu Pandit refugees protested outside the venue-they were lathicharged & hauled up by the police and of course it did not become a news( the protest & the police action that followed).
> 
> To suggest that Muslim- ness of thousands of believers can be preserved only in madrassas sounds a bit absurd. Let the community come out of the ghettos, be part of the main stream & you will see the integration. And it is happening, in spite of the attempts to keep the community in the self pitying mode perpetually.Look at the support the community has extended to the police in Maharashtra in apprehending the suspects.It is important to understand that there is a problem of extreme pan Islamism inspired indoctrination & it needs to be addressed. By continuing to remain in denying mode we are only increasing the vulnerability. That young Bangluru born aero space engineer did not blow himself up in faraway Glasgow to avenge some perceived injustice back home.
> 
> And by the way where else than in India the Hindu traditions are expected to be preserved - not in Arabia or Europe certainly.
> There is definitely no ban on Eid celebrations in schools. Where ever there are mixed neighborhoods you will find bonhomie.
> Even x-mass & new year are celebrated in schools....& there should be no reason to intentially avoid celebrating Eid.. there are no qualms about the valentine even.
> 
> Muslims are equal shareholders of India as Hindus & others are & it will be blasphemous to differentiate contributions in the nation building process.Let us stop being parochial & selective.
> Regards all
> LA
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
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