[Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?

[Pawan Durani]

Shivam,

You have a distinctive problem of assuming things in a particular direction.
I do understand that you have an inbuilt mechanism which generates love for
separatist elements of this country and also generates hate for those who
are victims of Islamic terrorism. In this case it is Kashmiri Pandits.You
are also  well known for your habit of loving to hate Kashmiri Pandits.

Also what is well known is that most of your knowledge is half baked and you
work as a propogonda machinery of the separatists.

I can challenge you to prove that Kashmiri Pandits have 5% reservations in
any state of India, leave alone Maharshtra.

If you fail to prove, you owe an apology to whole of the group for being
misleading and mischevios. And that defines your character and credential as
a journalist.

The reason I say Jai Maharshtra , Jai Hind is for the reason I am am based
in Mahrashtra . I am not Namak Harams like your friends who back stab India
and have few admirers in this EXPRESS.

Pls come out clean on your statement. Do you have the guts ?

You misleader

Pawan




On 10/21/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>
> Jai Maharashtra??? Surely that is not simply the eulogising of a
> particular state. In the current political context it is xenophobia.
> Or does this, Pawan, have something to do with Maharashtra having 5%
> reservations for Kashmiri Pandits?
>
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Notwithsatnding a well caluclulated effort backed by a foreign country ,
> so
> > called intellectuals and so called jornalists who created a
> disinformation
> > campaign, such as in Jamia Encounter , Parlaiment case are being followed
> > more closely.
> >
> > Number of people are supposed to be under close scanner and their links
> > ascertained.
> >
> > Hoping the truth and the details payouts will come out soon.
> >
> >
> >
> > Pawan
> > Jai Maharshtra - Jai Hind
> >
> >
> > On 10/20/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I wonder when right wing loonies of the sort who vandalise churches,
> >> burn non-Hindus alive and claim to be perpetual victims - I wonder
> >> when they will join the mainstream?
> >>
> >> best
> >> shivam
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul
> >> <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > When will Muslims join the mainstream?
> >> > By M.V. Kamath
> >> >
> >> > Organiser
> >> >
> >> > It obviously does not occur to some mullahs and other reactionary
> >> > Muslims that by refusing to sing Vande Mataram and threatening to
> >> > withdraw Muslim children from schools where it is routine to sing
> >> > it, they are only telling their co-religionists to withdraw from the
> >> > Indian mainstream.
> >> >
> >> > Like the Muslim League of pre-Independence days, one Minister of
> >> > Uttar Pradesh has called for the formation of a separate Muslim
> >> > state within the Indian Union instead of Harit Pradesh in western
> >> > Uttar Pradesh. It is one more divisive step that the Muslim
> >> > community is taking which is self-destructive and will only alienate
> >> > Muslims from their Hindu brethren further.
> >> >
> >> > Refusing to sing Vande Mataram on extremely illogical grounds is bad
> >> > enough. Demanding a separate communal state is inviting more
> >> > trouble. Not that the idea will ever get accepted. But what it
> >> > reveals is a sick mind that continues to be rooted in the medieval
> >> > era. The argument one frequently hears is that Muslims are under-
> >> > represented in every State Legislature as well as in Lok Sabha. But
> >> > then whose fault is it.
> >> >
> >> > If Muslims refuse to jo in the mainstream and insist on being
> >> > treated as a minority, they can hardly expect popular support. Past
> >> > experience plainly shows that when communal peace prevails Muslims
> >> > get more seats in the Lok Sabha. It is true that in the last
> >> > fourteen Lok Sabha elections only a fraction of the number of seats
> >> > they should normally deserve proportionate to their population were
> >> > won by Muslims. The truth is that they had, on their own, forfeited
> >> > the confidence of their Hindu brethren. If a minority lives apart
> >> > and stays apart from the majority community how can it possibly win
> >> > the trust, let alone affection, of the latter?
> >> >
> >> > Consider the following figures: In the first Lok Sabha elections, if
> >> > one goes strictly by population percentage Muslims should have got
> >> > 49 seats. Instead, they got 21 seats. In the second Lok Sabha
> >> > elections, the population percentage remained the same—but the
> >> > passions aroused by the Partition was subsiding and the Muslims won
> >> > 24 seats, three more than in the first elections. In the third Lok
> >> > Sabha elections, population percentage-wise Muslim should have
> >> > received 53 seats but they won only 23. The highest number of seats
> >> > Muslims won was in the seventh Lok Sabha elections when, though
> >> > population-percentage wise they should have received 53 seats they
> >> > managed to secure 49—not bad.
> >> >
> >> > Since then, largely because of emotional estrangement, the number of
> >> > Muslims elected to the Lok Sabha has been falling. From the tenth to
> >> > the four teen Lok Sabha elections they should have got 66 seats but
> >> > they could barely manage to get between 28 to 36 seats. The
> >> > fourteenth Lok Sabha elections were in 2004 when Muslims joined
> >> > different political parties, primarily to beat the BJP. Muslims got
> >> > ten seats in Congress, seven in the Samajwadi, four in the CPM, four
> >> > in the BJP, three in the RJD and one each in other local parties.
> >> >
> >> > They can win more, if they get over their antediluvian ideas and
> >> > become a modern, liberated people, instead of a people suspect of
> >> > terrorism and anti-Indian motives. They can't get votes by putting
> >> > their women in burqas and sending their children to madrasas when
> >> > they should be sent to normal primary and secondary schools to be
> >> > one with their Hindu and other students from the majority and allied
> >> > religions.
> >> >
> >> > There is another lesson that they should learn which is that hating
> >> > the BJP and trying to curry favour from the likes of Laloo Prasad
> >> > Yadav or Mulayam Singh Yadav or Mayavati will not help them. They
> >> > will continue to remain estranged from the majority community, no
> >> > matter what arguments the so-called secular parties may put forth to
> >> > win their favour.
> >> > Neither in Bihar, nor in Uttar Pradesh has the condition of Muslims
> >> > changed because they voted against the BJP. As Chaturanan Mishra, a
> >> > former Union Minister of Labour (1996-1998) and a prominent figure
> >> > in the Leftist movement in the country aptly noted in Mainstream
> >> > (August 17) , the Congress, allegedly the largest secular party
> >> > nominated 39 Muslims in 1991 and 1996, of whom only 12 could win.
> >> > Similarly, 32 Muslims were nominated by the Congress in 1998 but
> >> > only seven could succeed.
> >> >
> >> > Religion can never be the base of getting a ticket. Muslim citizens
> >> > must come up in front and be seen as social workers, serving people
> >> > of all religions. If they insist to live in the past as in the Shah
> >> > Banoo case, or if they seem to be supporting SIMI, an ISI-financed
> >> > student organisation—no matter how wrongly—then they doom themselves
> >> > to being eternally marginalised. And they should not blame the
> >> > majority community. As Shakespeare might have said to Muslims, the
> >> > fault, dear sires, lies not in the majority but in yourselves that
> >> > you want to stay separate.
> >> >
> >> > Turks are not less Islamic because the Ataturk threw out the
> >> > Caliphate and liberated Turkish women.
> >> >
> >> > The Indonesians are not less Islamic because they continue to adhere
> >> > in many ways to their ancient Hindu traditions. They are not
> >> > hesitant to call their airlines Garuda Airlines; they are not
> >> > hesitant to give their children Sanskrit name like Meghavati or
> >> > Saraswati (a daughter of former President Waheed); nor are they
> >> > hesitant in putting the figure of Ganesh on their currency notes. An
> >> > Indonesian production of Ramayana would put some of our own Indian
> >> > artists to shame; but here in India a section of reactionary Muslims
> >> > refuse to sing even the first two stanzas of Vande Mataram because
> >> > somewhere down the line in the song there is a reference to Durga.
> >> > And Indonesia is 98 per cent Muslim!
> >> >
> >> > If Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, a great Islamic scholar who had his
> >> > training in Islamic law and jurisprudence in the famous Islamic
> >> > University in Cairo, could respect Vande Mataram and stand to
> >> > attention when it was sung at AICC meetings, surely lesser Islamic
> >> > scholars can take a leaf from his book.
> >> >
> >> > Many Muslim organisations increasingly seem to be taking their cue
> >> > from fundamentalist Islamic organisation in Pakistan. It is not
> >> > going to help them one bit and it is time they realise it. Muslims
> >> > should not consider themselves a minority. India is a democracy and
> >> > all citizens are equal. Hindus are not that stupid as to want to
> >> > hurt Islamic sentiments of Muslims. But we need to live under a
> >> > Common Law as citizens are equal in every way. For Muslims,
> >> > especially, separatism should be deeply abhorrent. It should be
> >> > shunned like the very devil.
> >> >
> >> > We are one people and India, as Mohammad Iqbal once wrote belongs to
> >> > everyone, irrespective of caste, creed, religion or community. Sareh
> >> > jahan seh achcha Hindustan hamara should be our guiding mission.
> >> > Then everything will fall in its place and—who knows—the time may
> >> > come when under sound Muslim leadership, Hindus themselves may vote
> >> > for Muslims. Who, today, is our President? Who, our Prime Minister?
> >> > And who the leader of the Congress Party, oh?
> >> > http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?
> >> > name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=
> >> >
> >> > 150&page=12 ---
> >> > .....................................................................
> >> > ....................................
> >> > http://www.blogs.ivarta.com/india-usa-blog-column168.htm
> >> > Indian Muslims: Dealing with Past
> >> > Mayank Patel
> >> >
> >> > Across the world, Present generation grapples with past wrong
> >> > committed by previous generation. From South Africa to Germany and
> >> > from America to Australia, Most groups have acknowledged past
> >> > misdeeds and apologized for the suffering caused by their action
> >> > toward others. Thus, making genuine progress on path of truth and
> >> > reconciliation.
> >> >
> >> > However, Indian Muslims have taken opposite path of denial,
> >> > distortion and deflection. They=2 0have received more than generous
> >> > help from allies like Marxist, Fabian Socialist, Islamist etc. who
> >> > are co-travelers on this path. In fact, it is the allies who have
> >> > encouraged and lead Indian Muslims on this path. On behalf of Indian
> >> > Muslims, Allies have used denial, distortion and deflection tactic
> >> > to justify even the most unjustifiable mistakes like partition.
> >> >
> >> > Indian Muslim"s pro-partition role is proven beyond reasonable
> >> > doubt. 1945-46 Provincial Elections were fought on a single agenda
> >> > of partition. Partition became possible only because overwhelming
> >> > majority of Indian Muslims indirectly voted for it in that election.
> >> > Any objective analysis of current course and arguments favoring
> >> > course correction is usually greeted by an old tactic of shooting
> >> > the messenger. Three bullets are very popular with shooters.
> >> >
> >> > First bullet is "Present Generation of Indian Muslims should not be
> >> > blamed for Partition". Shooter conveniently and cleverly presumes
> >> > non-existent intent behind analysis. This is absurd. A course
> >> > correction and acknowledgement of past generation"s mistake could
> >> > never imply culpability of present generation. On the contrary,
> >> > Acknowledgement would reassure all that apple has indeed fallen far
> >> > from the tree. This would strengthen trust, improve communal
> >> > relations and lead to reconciliation and closure.
> >> >
> >> > Second bullet is much more lethal. It is "165 million strong Indian
> >> > Muslims cannot be wished away". Let me clarify, I=2 0would not wish
> >> > away anybody regardless of numerical strength. There is also certain
> >> > belligerence behind this quote. This virulent belligerence is quite
> >> > understandable if not agreeable. After all, Indian Muslims are 165
> >> > million strong and allies who have vice like grip over India"s
> >> > media, academia and politics are stronger. However, it does not
> >> > change the fact that current path of denial, distortion and
> >> > deflection could never lead to peace, truth and reconciliation. On
> >> > the contrary, The Logical end of this path is civic strife if not
> >> > civil war in which there are no winners and all losers.
> >> >
> >> > Third bullet is the denial bullet. There are dozens of denial
> >> > bullets. One of the most popular Denial Bullet is silence
> >> > hypothesis. It claims that Indian Muslims are silent and allies who
> >> > claim to be speaking and acting on behalf of Indian Muslims are not
> >> > true representative of Indian Muslims. It further touts this alleged
> >> > silence as proof that there is no alliance and Indian Muslims
> >> > disagrees with current path of denial, deflection and distortion.
> >> > There are many holes in this hypothesis.
> >> >
> >> > Firstly, Silence is not same as acknowledgement of past mistakes.
> >> > Secondly, there is no such thing as silent disagreement.
> >> > Disagreement is always vocal. On the Contrary, Agreement can often
> >> > lead to conspiracy of silence. Thus, Alleged Silence can never be
> >> > interpreted as a disagreement with current path. Finally, Indian
> >> > Muslims are speaking with their votes and participation in massi ve
> >> > political rallies. They consistently vote for allies who favor
> >> > denial path. In fact more an ally denies and asserts innocence of
> >> > terrorist outfits more vote it receives. These votes provide allies
> >> > a claim to speak and act on behalf of Indian Muslims.
> >> >
> >> > The current path of denial is compounding past mistakes. More-over,
> >> > it makes Indian Muslims over reliant on Allies. This over reliance
> >> > is unhealthy and dangerous. Allies have their own ideological beef
> >> > against Hindus and have selfish interest is making matters worse.
> >> > There are many reasons for breaking the alliance and changing
> >> > course. Perhaps the best reason is to end a history of wrongdoing
> >> > and leave a legacy of honesty for future generation.
> >> >
> >> > Related story:
> >> >
> >> > Forgive, not Forget History @
> >> > http://indiaview.wordpress.com/2008/01/25/forgive-but-never-forget-%
> >> > e2%80%93-history/
> >> > _________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
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