[Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 63, Issue 115, two wrongs do not make one right.

rajendra bhat raja_starkglass at yahoo.com
Wed Oct 22 15:44:04 IST 2008 

After going thru the posts in the last last few digests, one gets a feeling that wrongs can go on happening to correct the wrongs of previous past.? In democratic life, we have "intellectuals" who have ready reasons for the intellect to interpret the happenings in the democratic life, many claims for being intellectuals, may be a bookers prize, ( nobody would question the lobbying that went for the prize by the publishers of that book.) and these intellectuals have ready expletives like moron, looney and idiot for all of us who are not yet labelled as intellectuals. !
    Be that may be, we have a system to govern the democratic life, and we have intellectuals to find fault in the system and blame the system, none of the intellectuals seem to have any answers as to how to correct the system.?

   In democratic life, dissent is essence of democracy, if every one is agreeable for everything in society, then it becomes autocracy of few with dictatorial diction. But when in any debate, healthy discussion is exchange of thoughts, with or without diseent in the thoughts, so that better thoughts prevail and society gets the benefit of such thoughts from different minds., intellects.

  Few days back, a post from britta talked about camps in Gujarath, the miserable conditions of the camps, hygiene of the inmates of the camps etc. Then again, we are confused lot when it comes to "minority" and "maority", secular and communal, leftist thoughts and rightist thoughts. Me being looney moron have issues that bother me, is what about many of us morons who are plain and simple humans having a try at decent dignified life with hard work and decent effort to earn our daily bread.without aspiring for any rewards and awards or fellowships. ?

  As britta writes about the camp, my concern is for that camp also, in the capital of the nation, existing for last sixty   years right from 1948 of the displaced "minority" from Jammu and Kashmir state.If any of you have visited these camps, in worst conditions, which have given to the world  brilliant individuals, one of whom  is now heading  a fund of $ 700 billions to salvage the richest nation.! 
     My mind also wanders to those camps in karnataka where refugees of another nation, were settled on 35,000 hectares of land, totally inhabitable at the time of initiation of the camps, for nearly half a million people of Tibet, in Bylakuppe and Mundagod.These refugess mixed well within society as milk and sugar, no issues as refugees and they are today not only self sufficient but contribute to national economy.

     Then there are camps in Karnataka and Tamilnadu, where refugess from Srilanka came in thousands, being tamils was the only qualification, but today are in all  anti-social activities after being settled in this nation.! Ofcourse there is another type of camp, the refugees from bangladesh, who have now settled down with id cards, driving license and even passports as vote banks for the politics, in Assam, Tripura and west Bengal., who have feeder lines for terror.!

 The policy of camps and the communes of vote banks is not new to the nation by the politics of vote bank ploitics. As early as in 1956, duly democratically elected governance of kerala was dismissed under art.356 because "law and  order" was bad as per the report of the state governor. it is different matter that the cabinet minister for Home, those days was instrumental in getting the situation of law and order to go for a toss with foreign funds is another matter.And the governance was for the first time in free india by communist party of India.
 
  Then came the Punjab elections, gai bachda was thrown out of power, with sycophancy ruling the roost, the result was obivious, art.356 for dismissing duly, democratically elected Akalidal, and in addition, a monster was created to control the akalidal, from within the community. A bhindranwale was born to become a frankenstein later.
 
 Sri Lanka is a soverein nation , our neighbour, tamils went there as search for better life took them not only to this nation but many other nations, many became citizens of those nations where they got settled.. Why should India interfere in another nation;s internal matter militarily is an unanswered question for the nation.
 
    The ussue of terror took the horizon with large cloudes on nationhood of different nations. when 9/11 happened in America, entire nation and its media became one voice to act against the terror. But in India, it is a different matter altogether, as we seek to label the terror as islam terror, hindu terror and christian terror. When do we agree that terror is is terror, crime is a crime and it is used to subvert the process of democratic rule of the nation.?
 
   As we morons talk of the wrongs, labels follow, if we talk of wrongs of imposition of art 356 , we are leftists if it is about Kerala or west Bengal, if we talk of hindu and issues related, then we are communal, if we talk of atrocities by nuns and priests who are paid for conversion of poor tribals  we are very rabid communal.!If we talk about the displacement of poor peasents and farmers by forcible eviction then we are against development.!
 
    Nation has seen growth but not inclusive growth, as rightly said by some one socialism distributes poverty equally, capitalism allows rich few to become richer. As we forget the nation and our duty to constitution of the nation, with our intellect going intellectual, the safety being provided by our soldiers sacrificing their youth, family  and even their life, we have intellectuals advocating the secession of apart of the nation, who do notvalue the freedom but their comfortable stay with separatists. some post the r=
ight thoughts of varnas in hindu way of life, very next post is about looney communal barbs. ? Is it because the effort is still on emphasis for creating vote banks based on caste, faith and region. Yes, otherwise how one can justify the notice to karnataka and orissa under art.355 for law and order situation and no notices to maharastra for the goon acts of their sponsored monster on rampage. ? If lalu yadav can be minister of
 railways for Bihar who will take care of the nation of its railways. ? Home minister being mumbaikar has soft corner for mumbai for the votes of linguistic commune of maratis.? Defence minister is more bothered about malayali votes but least bothered about the hijacked indians on a ship near Somalia as they are all hindi speaking. ?
   
 we have a system of governance that feeds on "commune " votes of faith, linguistic, regioanl and caste vote communes. , and we are democracy with only 45 percent voting for the polls, hence the commune votes count if they are even 2 per cent, that is winning margin.?   



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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: When will Muslims join the mainstream? (Aditya Raj Kaul)
  2. Re: When will Muslims join the mainstream?
      ( Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् )


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 22:59:13 +0530
From: "Aditya Raj Kaul" <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?
To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Message-ID:
    <6353c690810211029i5f4b767ay5af76a55028f68a8 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

It isn't reservation. Pandits are accommodated over and above the strength
of a batch.

On 10/21/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>
> Did I say there's something wrong with that? That's a strawman
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:04 PM, we wi <dhatr1i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > If minorities of INDIA enjoying spectaculous reservations and benefits
> and damaging the country like anything, whats wrong if a single state
> provide reservation to pandits?Today Maharashtra,tomorrow every state in
> India will do so?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dhatri.
> >
> > --- On Tue, 10/21/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: Shivam Vij शिवम् <mail at shivamvij.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?
> > To: "Pawan Durani" <pawan.durani at gmail..com>
> > Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 6:48 PM
> >
> > Jai Maharashtra??? Surely that is not simply the eulogising of a
> > particular state. In the current political context it is xenophobia.
> > Or does this, Pawan, have something to do with Maharashtra having 5%
> > reservations for Kashmiri Pandits?
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Notwithsatnding a well caluclulated effort backed by a foreign country
> ,
> > so
> > > called intellectuals and so called jornalists who created a
> disinformation
> > > campaign, such as in Jamia Encounter , Parlaiment case are being
> followed
> > > more closely.
> > >
> > > Number of people are supposed to be under close scanner and their links
> > > ascertained.
> > >
> > > Hoping the truth and the details payouts will come out soon.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Pawan
> > > Jai Maharshtra - Jai Hind
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/20/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्
> > <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I wonder when right wing loonies of the sort who vandalise churches,
> > >> burn non-Hindus alive and claim to be perpetual victims - I wonder
> > >> when they will join the mainstream?
> > >>
> > >> best
> > >> shivam
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul
> > >> <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > When will Muslims join the mainstream?
> > >> > By M.V. Kamath
> > >> >
> > >> > Organiser
> > >> >
> > >> > It obviously does not occur to some mullahs and other reactionary
> > >> > Muslims that by refusing to sing Vande Mataram and threatening to
> > >> > withdraw Muslim children from schools where it is routine to sing
> > >> > it, they are only telling their co-religionists to withdraw from
> > the
> > >> > Indian mainstream.
> > >> >
> > >> > Like the Muslim League of pre-Independence days, one Minister of
> > >> > Uttar Pradesh has called for the formation of a separate Muslim
> > >> > state within the Indian Union instead of Harit Pradesh in western
> > >> > Uttar Pradesh. It is one more divisive step that the Muslim
> > >> > community is taking which is self-destructive and will only
> > alienate
> > >> > Muslims from their Hindu brethren further.
> > >> >
> > >> > Refusing to sing Vande Mataram on extremely illogical grounds is
> > bad
> > >> > enough. Demanding a separate communal state is inviting more
> > >> > trouble. Not that the idea will ever get accepted. But what it
> > >> > reveals is a sick mind that continues to be rooted in the
> > medieval
> > >> > era. The argument one frequently hears is that Muslims are under-
> > >> > represented in every State Legislature as well as in Lok Sabha.
> > But
> > >> > then whose fault is it.
> > >> >
> > >> > If Muslims refuse to jo in the mainstream and insist on being
> > >> > treated as a minority, they can hardly expect popular support..
> > Past
> > >> > experience plainly shows that when communal peace prevails
> > Muslims
> > >> > get more seats in the Lok Sabha. It is true that in the last
> > >> > fourteen Lok Sabha elections only a fraction of the number of
> > seats
> > >> > they should normally deserve proportionate to their population
> > were
> > >> > won by Muslims. The truth is that they had, on their own,
> > forfeited
> > >> > the confidence of their Hindu brethren. If a minority lives apart
> > >> > and stays apart from the majority community how can it possibly
> > win
> > >> > the trust, let alone affection, of the latter?
> > >> >
> > >> > Consider the following figures: In the first Lok Sabha elections,
> > if
> > >> > one goes strictly by population percentage Muslims should have
> > got
> > >> > 49 seats. Instead, they got 21 seats. In the second Lok Sabha
> > >> > elections, the population percentage remained the same—but the
> > >> > passions aroused by the Partition was subsiding and the Muslims
> > won
> > >> > 24 seats, three more than in the first elections. In the third
> > Lok
> > >> > Sabha elections, population percentage-wise Muslim should have
> > >> > received 53 seats but they won only 23. The highest number of
> > seats
> > >> > Muslims won was in the seventh Lok Sabha elections when, though
> > >> > population-percentage wise they should have received 53 seats
> > they
> > >> > managed to secure 49—not bad.
> > >> >
> > >> > Since then, largely because of emotional estrangement, the number
> > of
> > >> > Muslims elected to the Lok Sabha has been falling. From the tenth
> > to
> > >> > the four teen Lok Sabha elections they should have got 66 seats
> > but
> > >> > they could barely manage to get between 28 to 36 seats. The
> > >> > fourteenth Lok Sabha elections were in 2004 when Muslims joined
> > >> > different political parties, primarily to beat the BJP. Muslims
> > got
> > >> > ten seats in Congress, seven in the Samajwadi, four in the CPM,
> > four
> > >> > in the BJP, three in the RJD and one each in other local parties.
> > >> >
> > >> > They can win more, if they get over their antediluvian ideas and
> > >> > become a modern, liberated people, instead of a people suspect of
> > >> > terrorism and anti-Indian motives. They can't get votes by
> > putting
> > >> > their women in burqas and sending their children to madrasas when
> > >> > they should be sent to normal primary and secondary schools to be
> > >> > one with their Hindu and other students from the majority and
> > allied
> > >> > religions.
> > >> >
> > >> > There is another lesson that they should learn which is that
> > hating
> > >> > the BJP and trying to curry favour from the likes of Laloo Prasad
> > >> > Yadav or Mulayam Singh Yadav or Mayavati will not help them. They
> > >> > will continue to remain estranged from the majority community, no
> > >> > matter what arguments the so-called secular parties may put forth
> > to
> > >> > win their favour.
> > >> > Neither in Bihar, nor in Uttar Pradesh has the condition of
> > Muslims
> > >> > changed because they voted against the BJP. As Chaturanan Mishra,
> > a
> > >> > former Union Minister of Labour (1996-1998) and a prominent
> > figure
> > >> > in the Leftist movement in the country aptly noted in Mainstream
> > >> > (August 17) , the Congress, allegedly the largest secular party
> > >> > nominated 39 Muslims in 1991 and 1996, of whom only 12 could win.
> > >> > Similarly, 32 Muslims were nominated by the Congress in 1998 but
> > >> > only seven could succeed.
> > >> >
> > >> > Religion can never be the base of getting a ticket. Muslim
> > citizens
> > >> > must come up in front and be seen as social workers, serving
> > people
> > >> > of all religions. If they insist to live in the past as in the
> > Shah
> > >> > Banoo case, or if they seem to be supporting SIMI, an
> > ISI-financed
> > >> > student organisation—no matter how wrongly—then they doom
> > themselves
> > >> > to being eternally marginalised. And they should not blame the
> > >> > majority community. As Shakespeare might have said to Muslims,
> > the
> > >> > fault, dear sires, lies not in the majority but in yourselves
> > that
> > >> > you want to stay separate.
> > >> >
> > >> > Turks are not less Islamic because the Ataturk threw out the
> > >> > Caliphate and liberated Turkish women.
> > >> >
> > >> > The Indonesians are not less Islamic because they continue to
> > adhere
> > >> > in many ways to their ancient Hindu traditions. They are not
> > >> > hesitant to call their airlines Garuda Airlines; they are not
> > >> > hesitant to give their children Sanskrit name like Meghavati or
> > >> > Saraswati (a daughter of former President Waheed); nor are they
> > >> > hesitant in putting the figure of Ganesh on their currency notes.
> > An
> > >> > Indonesian production of Ramayana would put some of our own
> > Indian
> > >> > artists to shame; but here in India a section of reactionary
> > Muslims
> > >> > refuse to sing even the first two stanzas of Vande Mataram
> > because
> > >> > somewhere down the line in the song there is a reference to
> > Durga.
> > >> > And Indonesia is 98 per cent Muslim!
> > >> >
> > >> > If Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, a great Islamic scholar who had his
> > >> > training in Islamic law and jurisprudence in the famous Islamic
> > >> > University in Cairo, could respect Vande Mataram and stand to
> > >> > attention when it was sung at AICC meetings, surely lesser
> > Islamic
> > >> > scholars can take a leaf from his book.
> > >> >
> > >> > Many Muslim organisations increasingly seem to be taking their
> > cue
> > >> > from fundamentalist Islamic organisation in Pakistan. It is not
> > >> > going to help them one bit and it is time they realise it.
> > Muslims
> > >> > should not consider themselves a minority. India is a democracy
> > and
> > >> > all citizens are equal. Hindus are not that stupid as to want to
> > >> > hurt Islamic sentiments of Muslims. But we need to live under a
> > >> > Common Law as citizens are equal in every way. For Muslims,
> > >> > especially, separatism should be deeply abhorrent. It should be
> > >> > shunned like the very devil.
> > >> >
> > >> > We are one people and India, as Mohammad Iqbal once wrote belongs
> > to
> > >> > everyone, irrespective of caste, creed, religion or community..
> > Sareh
> > >> > jahan seh achcha Hindustan hamara should be our guiding mission.
> > >> > Then everything will fall in its place and—who knows—the time
> > may
> > >> > come when under sound Muslim leadership, Hindus themselves may
> > vote
> > >> > for Muslims. Who, today, is our President? Who, our Prime
> > Minister?
> > >> > And who the leader of the Congress Party, oh?
> > >> > http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?
> > >> > name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=
> > >> >
> > >> > 150&page=12 ---
> > >> >
> > .......................................................................
> > >> > .....................................
> > >> > http://www.blogs.ivarta.com/india-usa-blog-column168.htm
> > >> > Indian Muslims: Dealing with Past
> > >> > Mayank Patel
> > >> >
> > >> > Across the world, Present generation grapples with past wrong
> > >> > committed by previous generation. From South Africa to Germany
> > and
> > >> > from America to Australia, Most groups have acknowledged past
> > >> > misdeeds and apologized for the suffering caused by their action
> > >> > toward others. Thus, making genuine progress on path of truth and
> > >> > reconciliation.
> > >> >
> > >> > However, Indian Muslims have taken opposite path of denial,
> > >> > distortion and deflection. They=2 0have received more than
> > generous
> > >> > help from allies like Marxist, Fabian Socialist, Islamist etc..
> > who
> > >> > are co-travelers on this path. In fact, it is the allies who have
> > >> > encouraged and lead Indian Muslims on this path. On behalf of
> > Indian
> > >> > Muslims, Allies have used denial, distortion and deflection
> > tactic
> > >> > to justify even the most unjustifiable mistakes like partition.
> > >> >
> > >> > Indian Muslim"s pro-partition role is proven beyond
> > reasonable
> > >> > doubt. 1945-46 Provincial Elections were fought on a single
> > agenda
> > >> > of partition. Partition became possible only because overwhelming
> > >> > majority of Indian Muslims indirectly voted for it in that
> > election.
> > >> > Any objective analysis of current course and arguments favoring
> > >> > course correction is usually greeted by an old tactic of shooting
> > >> > the messenger. Three bullets are very popular with shooters.
> > >> >
> > >> > First bullet is "Present Generation of Indian Muslims should
> > not be
> > >> > blamed for Partition". Shooter conveniently and cleverly=0A> > presumes
> > >> > non-existent intent behind analysis. This is absurd. A course
> > >> > correction and acknowledgement of past generation"s mistake
> > could
> > >> > never imply culpability of present generation. On the contrary,
> > >> > Acknowledgement would reassure all that apple has indeed fallen
> > far
> > >> > from the tree. This would strengthen trust, improve communal
> > >> > relations and lead to reconciliation and closure.
> > >> >
> > >> > Second bullet is much more lethal. It is "165 million strong
> > Indian
> > >> > Muslims cannot be wished away". Let me clarify, I=2 0would
> > not wish
> > >> > away anybody regardless of numerical strength. There is also
> > certain
> > >> > belligerence behind this quote. This virulent belligerence is
> > quite
> > >> > understandable if not agreeable. After all, Indian Muslims are
> > 165
> > >> > million strong and allies who have vice like grip over
> > India"s
> > >> > media, academia and politics are stronger. However, it does not
> > >> > change the fact that current path of denial, distortion and
> > >> > deflection could never lead to peace, truth and reconciliation.
> > On
> > >> > the contrary, The Logical end of this path is civic strife if not
> > >> > civil war in which there are no winners and all losers.
> > >> >
> > >> > Third bullet is the denial bullet. There are dozens of denial
> > >> > bullets. One of the most popular Denial Bullet is silence
> > >> > hypothesis. It claims that Indian Muslims are silent and allies
> > who
> > >> > claim to be speaking and acting on behalf of Indian Muslims are
> > not
> > >> > true representative of Indian Muslims. It further touts this
> > alleged
> > >> > silence as proof that there is no alliance and Indian Muslims
> > >> > disagrees with current path of denial, deflection and distortion.
> > >> > There are many holes in this hypothesis.
> > >> >
> > >> > Firstly, Silence is not same as acknowledgement of past mistakes.
> > >> > Secondly, there is no such thing as silent disagreement.
> > >> > Disagreement is always vocal. On the Contrary, Agreement can
> > often
> > >> > lead to conspiracy of silence. Thus, Alleged Silence can never be
> > >> > interpreted as a disagreement with current path. Finally, Indian
> > >> > Muslims are speaking with their votes and participation in massi
> > ve
> > >> > political rallies. They consistently vote for allies who favor
> > >> > denial path. In fact more an ally denies and asserts innocence of
> > >> > terrorist outfits more vote it receives. These votes provide
> > allies
> > >> > a claim to speak and act on behalf of Indian Muslims.
> > >> >
> > >> > The current path of denial is compounding past mistakes.
> > More-over,
> > >> > it makes Indian Muslims over reliant on Allies. This over
> > reliance
> > >> > is unhealthy and dangerous. Allies have their own ideological
> > beef
> > >> > against Hindus and have selfish interest is making matters worse.
> > >> > There are many reasons for breaking the alliance and changing
> > >> > course. Perhaps the best reason is to end a history of wrongdoing
> > >> > and leave a legacy of honesty for future generation.
> > >> >
> > >> > Related story:
> > >> >
> > >> > Forgive, not Forget History @
> > >> >
> > http://indiaview.wordpress.com/2008/01/25/forgive-but-never-forget-%
> > >> > e2%80%93-history/
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> > >>
> > >>
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:16:24 +0530
From: " Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् "    <mail at shivamvij.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?
To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
Cc: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
Message-ID:
    <9c06aab30810211046lc0e6e99s9767cf12de2db69d at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

So it's reservation without reservation.

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul
<kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
> It isn't reservation. Pandits are accommodated over and above the strength
> of a batch.
>
> On 10/21/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>>
>> Did I say there's something wrong with that? That's a strawman
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:04 PM, we wi <dhatr1i at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > If minorities of INDIA enjoying spectaculous reservations and benefits
>> and damaging the country like anything, whats wrong if a single state
>> provide reservation to pandits?Today Maharashtra,tomorrow every state in
>> India will do so?
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Dhatri.
>> >
>> > --- On Tue, 10/21/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Shivam Vij शिवम् <mail at shivamvij.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?
>> > To: "Pawan Durani" <pawan.durani at gmail..com>
>> > Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 6:48 PM
>> >
>> > Jai Maharashtra??? Surely that is not simply the eulogising of a
>> > particular state. In the current political context it is xenophobia.
>> > Or does this, Pawan, have something to do with Maharashtra having 5%
>> > reservations for Kashmiri Pandits?
>> >
>> > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > > Notwithsatnding a well caluclulated effort backed by a foreign country
>> ,
>> > so
>> > > called intellectuals and so called jornalists who created a
>> disinformation
>> > > campaign, such as in Jamia Encounter , Parlaiment case are being
>> followed
>> > > more closely.
>> > >
>> > > Number of people are supposed to be under close scanner and their links
>> > > ascertained.
>> > >
>> > > Hoping the truth and the details payouts will come out soon.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Pawan
>> > > Jai Maharshtra - Jai Hind
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 10/20/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्
>> > <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> I wonder when right wing loonies of the sort who vandalise churches,
>> > >> burn non-Hindus alive and claim to be perpetual victims - I wonder
>> > >> when they will join the mainstream?
>> > >>
>> > >> best
>> > >> shivam
>> > >>
>> > >> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul
>> > >> <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> > When will Muslims join the mainstream?
>> > >> > By M.V. Kamath
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Organiser
>> > >> >
>> > >> > It obviously does not occur to some mullahs and other reactionary
>> > >> > Muslims that by refusing to sing Vande Mataram and threatening to
>> > >> > withdraw Muslim children from schools where it is routine to sing
>> > >> > it, they are only telling their co-religionists to withdraw from
>> > the
>> > >> > Indian mainstream.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Like the Muslim League of pre-Independence days, one Minister of
>> > >> > Uttar Pradesh has called for the formation of a separate Muslim
>> > >> > state within the Indian Union instead of Harit Pradesh in western
>> > >> > Uttar Pradesh. It is one more divisive step that the Muslim
>> > >> > community is taking which is self-destructive and will only
>> > alienate
>> > >> > Muslims from their Hindu brethren further.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Refusing to sing Vande Mataram on extremely illogical grounds is
>> > bad
>> > >> > enough. Demanding a separate communal state is inviting more
>> > >> > trouble. Not that the idea will ever get accepted. But what it
>> > >> > reveals is a sick mind that continues to be rooted in the
>> > medieval
>> > >> > era. The argument one frequently hears is that Muslims are under-
>> > >> > represented in every State Legislature as well as in Lok Sabha.
>> > But
>> > >> > then whose fault is it.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > If Muslims refuse to jo in the mainstream and insist on being
>> > >> > treated as a minority, they can hardly expect popular support..
>> > Past
>> > >> > experience plainly shows that when communal peace prevails
>> > Muslims
>> > >> > get more seats in the Lok Sabha. It is true that in the last
>> > >> > fourteen Lok Sabha elections only a fraction of the number of
>> > seats
>> > >> > they should normally deserve proportionate to their population
>> > were
>> > >> > won by Muslims. The truth is that they had, on their own,
>> > forfeited
>> > >> > the confidence of their Hindu brethren. If a minority lives apart
>> > >> > and stays apart from the majority community how can it possibly
>> > win
>> > >> > the trust, let alone affection, of the latter?
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Consider the following figures: In the first Lok Sabha elections,
>> > if
>> > >> > one goes strictly by population percentage Muslims should have
>> > got
>> > >> > 49 seats. Instead, they got 21 seats. In the second Lok Sabha
>> > >> > elections, the population percentage remained the same—but the
>> > >> > passions aroused by the Partition was subsiding and the Muslims
>> > won
>> > >> > 24 seats, three more than in the first elections. In the third
>> > Lok
>> > >> > Sabha elections, population percentage-wise Muslim should have
>> > >> > received 53 seats but they won only 23. The highest number of
>> > seats
>> > >> > Muslims won was in the seventh Lok Sabha elections when, though
>> > >> > population-percentage wise they should have received 53 seats
>> > they
>> > >> > managed to secure 49—not bad.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Since then, largely because of emotional estrangement, the number
>> > of
>> > >> > Muslims elected to the Lok Sabha has been falling. From the tenth
>> > to
>> > >> > the four teen Lok Sabha elections they should have got 66 seats
>> > but
>> > >> > they could barely manage to get between 28 to 36 seats. The
>> > >> > fourteenth Lok Sabha elections were in 2004 when Muslims joined
>> > >> > different political parties, primarily to beat the BJP. Muslims
>> > got
>> > >> > ten seats in Congress, seven in the Samajwadi, four in the CPM,
>> > four
>> > >> > in the BJP, three in the RJD and one each in other local parties.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > They can win more, if they get over their antediluvian ideas and
>> > >> > become a modern, liberated people, instead of a people suspect of
>> > >> > terrorism and anti-Indian motives. They can't get votes by
>> > putting
>> > >> > their women in burqas and sending their children to madrasas when
>> > >> > they should be sent to normal primary and secondary schools to be
>> > >> > one with their Hindu and other students from the majority and
>> > allied
>> > >> > religions.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > There is another lesson that they should learn which is that
>> > hating
>> > >> > the BJP and trying to curry favour from the likes of Laloo Prasad
>> > >> > Yadav or Mulayam Singh Yadav or Mayavati will not help them. They
>> > >> > will continue to remain estranged from the majority community, no
>> > >> > matter what arguments the so-called secular parties may put forth
>> > to
>> > >> > win their favour.
>> > >> > Neither in Bihar, nor in Uttar Pradesh has the condition of
>> > Muslims
>> > >> > changed because they voted against the BJP. As Chaturanan Mishra,
>> > a
>> > >> > former Union Minister of Labour (1996-1998) and a prominent
>> > figure
>> > >> > in the Leftist movement in the country aptly noted in Mainstream
>> > >> > (August 17) , the Congress, allegedly the largest secular party
>> > >> > nominated 39 Muslims in 1991 and 1996, of whom only 12 could win.
>> > >> > Similarly, 32 Muslims were nominated by the Congress in 1998 but
>> > >> > only seven could succeed.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Religion can never be the base of getting a ticket. Muslim
>> > citizens
>> > >> > must come up in front and be seen as social workers, serving
>> > people
>> > >> > of all religions. If they insist to live in the past as in the
>> > Shah
>> > >> > Banoo case, or if they seem to be supporting SIMI, an
>> > ISI-financed
>> > >> > student organisation—no matter how wrongly—then they doom
>> > themselves
>> > >> > to being eternally marginalised. And they should not blame the
>> > >> > majority community. As Shakespeare might have said to Muslims,
>> > the
>> > >> > fault, dear sires, lies not in the majority but in yourselves
>> > that
>> > >> > you want to stay separate.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Turks are not less Islamic because the Ataturk threw out the
>> > >> > Caliphate and liberated Turkish women.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > The Indonesians are not less Islamic because they continue to
>> > adhere
>> > >> > in many ways to their ancient Hindu traditions. They are not
>> > >> > hesitant to call their airlines Garuda Airlines; they are not
>> > >> > hesitant to give their children Sanskrit name like Meghavati or
>> > >> > Saraswati (a daughter of former President Waheed); nor are they
>> > >> > hesitant in putting the figure of Ganesh on their currency notes.
>> > An
>> > >> > Indonesian production of Ramayana would put some of our own
>> > Indian
>> > >> > artists to shame; but here in India a section of reactionary
>> > Muslims
>> > >> > refuse to sing even the first two stanzas of Vande Mataram
>> > because
>> > >> > somewhere down the line in the song there is a reference to
>> > Durga.
>> > >> > And Indonesia is 98 per cent Muslim!
>> > >> >
>> > >> > If Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, a great Islamic scholar who had his
>> > >> > training in Islamic law and jurisprudence in the famous Islamic
>> > >> > University in Cairo, could respect Vande Mataram and stand to
>> > >> > attention when it was sung at AICC meetings, surely lesser
>> > Islamic
>> > >> > scholars can take a leaf from his book.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Many Muslim organisations increasingly seem to be taking their
>> > cue
>> > >> > from fundamentalist Islamic organisation in Pakistan. It is not
>> > >> > going to help them one bit and it is time they realise it.
>> > Muslims
>> > >> > should not consider themselves a minority. India is a democracy
>> > and
>> > >> > all citizens are equal. Hindus are not that stupid as to want to
>> > >> > hurt Islamic sentiments of Muslims. But we need to live under a
>> > >> > Common Law as citizens are equal in every way. For Muslims,
>> > >> > especially, separatism should be deeply abhorrent. It should be
>> > >> > shunned like the very devil.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > We are one people and India, as Mohammad Iqbal once wrote belongs
>> > to
>> > >> > everyone, irrespective of caste, creed, religion or community..
>> > Sareh
>> > >> > jahan seh achcha Hindustan hamara should be our guiding mission.
>> > >> > Then everything will fall in its place and—who knows—the time
>> > may
>> > >> > come when under sound Muslim leadership, Hindus themselves may
>> > vote
>> > >> > for Muslims. Who, today, is our President? Who, our Prime
>> > Minister?
>> > >> > And who the leader of the Congress Party, oh?
>> > >> > http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?
>> > >> > name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=
>> > >> >
>> > >> > 150&page=12 ---
>> > >> >
>> > .......................................................................
>> > >> > ....................................
>> > >> > http://www.blogs.ivarta.com/india-usa-blog-column168.htm
>> > >> > Indian Muslims: Dealing with Past
>> > >> > Mayank Patel
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Across the world, Present generation grapples with past wrong
>> > >> > committed by previous generation. From South Africa to Germany
>> > and
>> > >> > from America to Australia, Most groups have acknowledged past
>> > >> > misdeeds and apologized for the suffering caused by their action
>> > >> > toward others. Thus, making genuine progress on path of truth and
>> > >> > reconciliation.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > However, Indian Muslims have taken opposite path of denial,
>> > >> > distortion and deflection. They=2 0have received more than
>> > generous
>> > >> > help from allies like Marxist, Fabian Socialist, Islamist etc..
>> > who
>> > >> > are co-travelers on this path. In fact, it is the allies who have
>> > >> > encouraged and lead Indian Muslims on this path. On behalf of
>> > Indian
>> > >> > Muslims, Allies have used denial, distortion and deflection
>> > tactic
>> > >> > to justify even the most unjustifiable mistakes like partition.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Indian Muslim"s pro-partition role is proven beyond
>> > reasonable
>> > >> > doubt. 1945-46 Provincial Elections were fought on a single
>> > agenda
>> > >> > of partition. Partition became possible only because overwhelming
>> > >> > majority of Indian Muslims indirectly voted for it in that
>> > election.
>> > >> > Any objective analysis of current course and arguments favoring
>> > >> > course correction is usually greeted by an old tactic of shooting
>> > >> > the messenger. Three bullets are very popular with shooters.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > First bullet is "Present Generation of Indian Muslims should
>> > not be
>> > >> > blamed for Partition". Shooter conveniently and cleverly
>> > presumes
>> > >> > non-existent intent behind analysis. This is absurd. A course
>> > >> > correction and acknowledgement of past generation"s mistake
>> > could
>> > >> > never imply culpability of present generation. On the contrary,
>> > >> > Acknowledgement would reassure all that apple has indeed fallen
>> > far
>> > >> > from the tree. This would strengthen trust, improve communal
>> > >> > relations and lead to reconciliation and closure.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Second bullet is much more lethal. It is "165 million strong
>> > Indian
>> > >> > Muslims cannot be wished away". Let me clarify, I=2 0would
>> > not wish
>> > >> > away anybody regardless of numerical strength. There is also
>> > certain
>> > >> > belligerence behind this quote. This virulent belligerence is
>> > quite
>> > >> > understandable if not agreeable.. After all, Indian Muslims are
>> > 165
>> > >> > million strong and allies who have vice like grip over
>> > India"s
>> > >> > media, academia and politics are stronger. However, it does not
>> > >> > change the fact that current path of denial, distortion and
>> > >> > deflection could never lead to peace, truth and reconciliation.
>> > On
>> > >> > the contrary, The Logical end of this path is civic strife if not
>> > >> > civil war in which there are no winners and all losers.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Third bullet is the denial bullet. There are dozens of denial
>> > >> > bullets. One of the most popular Denial Bullet is silence
>> > >> > hypothesis. It claims that Indian Muslims are silent and allies
>> > who
>> > >> > claim to be speaking and acting on behalf of Indian Muslims are
>> > not
>> > >> > true representative of Indian Muslims. It further touts this
>> > alleged
>> > >> > silence as proof that there is no alliance and Indian Muslims
>> > >> > disagrees with current path of denial, deflection and distortion.
>> > >> > There are many holes in this hypothesis.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Firstly, Silence is not same as acknowledgement of past mistakes.
>> > >> > Secondly, there is no such thing as silent disagreement.
>> > >> > Disagreement is always vocal. On the Contrary, Agreement can
>> > often
>> > >> > lead to conspiracy of silence. Thus, Alleged Silence can never be
>> > >> > interpreted as a disagreement with current path. Finally, Indian
>> > >> > Muslims are speaking with their votes and participation in massi
>> > ve
>> > >> > political rallies. They consistently vote for allies who favor
>> > >> > denial path. In fact more an ally denies and asserts innocence of
>> > >> > terrorist outfits more vote it receives. These votes provide
>> > allies
>> > >> > a claim to speak and act on behalf of Indian Muslims.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > The current path of denial is compounding past mistakes.
>> > More-over,
>> > >> > it makes Indian Muslims over reliant on Allies. This over
>> > reliance
>> > >> > is unhealthy and dangerous. Allies have their own ideological
>> > beef
>> > >> > against Hindus and have selfish interest is making matters worse.
>> > >> > There are many reasons for breaking the alliance and changing
>> > >> > course. Perhaps the best reason is to end a history of wrongdoing
>> > >> > and leave a legacy of honesty for future generation.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Related story:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Forgive, not Forget History @
>> > >> >
>> > http://indiaview.wordpress.com/2008/01/25/forgive-but-never-forget-%
>> > >> > e2%80%93-history/
>> > >> > _________________________________________
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>>
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>>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> National Highway - http://shivamvij.com/
>> > >> _________________________________________
>> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > >> Critiques & Collaborations
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>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > National Highway - http://shivamvij.com/
>> > _________________________________________
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>> > Critiques & Collaborations
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>> subscribe in
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>>
>>
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>> _________________________________________
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