[Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?

Wed Oct 22 17:59:02 IST 2008

Sh tara Prakash Ji,

The suggestion you have given does not hold merit.

If someone says Jai Siya ram , that does not mean that Sita comes first in
priority and Rama Later , same hold true for Jai Radhe Krishna....

Whne we pay respect , we have to do that for both Karam Bhoomi , Janam
Bhoomi and matr Bhoomi.

Jai Maharashtra , Jai Hind just defines the love and respect for both the
state and Nation. It is not putting a priority of state over nation.

You re having difficulty in understanding the concept. Atleast the one I
follow.

Be blessed.

Pawan.

On 10/21/08, Tara Prakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Maharashtra comes before the nation.  It has been the culture of right
> wing,
> first me, then my family ... then the rest. If they are left, that is. Was
> BJP ever a nationalist party? Never.
> Neither were the remaining political cousins. they have been selling this
> crap to the people of this country. And some of us have been buying it. Let
> us not exclude the kkashmiri separratists from the list of these cousins,
> they have been using the same rhetoric.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्" <
> mail at shivamvij.com>
> To: "Pawan Durani" <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?
>
>
> Jai Maharashtra??? Surely that is not simply the eulogising of a
>> particular state. In the current political context it is xenophobia.
>> Or does this, Pawan, have something to do with Maharashtra having 5%
>> reservations for Kashmiri Pandits?
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Notwithsatnding a well caluclulated effort backed by a foreign country ,
>>> so
>>> called intellectuals and so called jornalists who created a
>>> disinformation
>>> campaign, such as in Jamia Encounter , Parlaiment case are being followed
>>> more closely.
>>>
>>> Number of people are supposed to be under close scanner and their links
>>> ascertained.
>>>
>>> Hoping the truth and the details payouts will come out soon.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pawan
>>> Jai Maharshtra - Jai Hind
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/20/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder when right wing loonies of the sort who vandalise churches,
>>>> burn non-Hindus alive and claim to be perpetual victims - I wonder
>>>> when they will join the mainstream?
>>>>
>>>> best
>>>> shivam
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul
>>>> <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > When will Muslims join the mainstream?
>>>> > By M.V. Kamath
>>>> >
>>>> > Organiser
>>>> >
>>>> > It obviously does not occur to some mullahs and other reactionary
>>>> > Muslims that by refusing to sing Vande Mataram and threatening to
>>>> > withdraw Muslim children from schools where it is routine to sing
>>>> > it, they are only telling their co-religionists to withdraw from the
>>>> > Indian mainstream.
>>>> >
>>>> > Like the Muslim League of pre-Independence days, one Minister of
>>>> > Uttar Pradesh has called for the formation of a separate Muslim
>>>> > state within the Indian Union instead of Harit Pradesh in western
>>>> > Uttar Pradesh. It is one more divisive step that the Muslim
>>>> > community is taking which is self-destructive and will only alienate
>>>> > Muslims from their Hindu brethren further.
>>>> >
>>>> > Refusing to sing Vande Mataram on extremely illogical grounds is bad
>>>> > enough. Demanding a separate communal state is inviting more
>>>> > trouble. Not that the idea will ever get accepted. But what it
>>>> > reveals is a sick mind that continues to be rooted in the medieval
>>>> > era. The argument one frequently hears is that Muslims are under-
>>>> > represented in every State Legislature as well as in Lok Sabha. But
>>>> > then whose fault is it.
>>>> >
>>>> > If Muslims refuse to jo in the mainstream and insist on being
>>>> > treated as a minority, they can hardly expect popular support. Past
>>>> > experience plainly shows that when communal peace prevails Muslims
>>>> > get more seats in the Lok Sabha. It is true that in the last
>>>> > fourteen Lok Sabha elections only a fraction of the number of seats
>>>> > they should normally deserve proportionate to their population were
>>>> > won by Muslims. The truth is that they had, on their own, forfeited
>>>> > the confidence of their Hindu brethren. If a minority lives apart
>>>> > and stays apart from the majority community how can it possibly win
>>>> > the trust, let alone affection, of the latter?
>>>> >
>>>> > Consider the following figures: In the first Lok Sabha elections, if
>>>> > one goes strictly by population percentage Muslims should have got
>>>> > 49 seats. Instead, they got 21 seats. In the second Lok Sabha
>>>> > elections, the population percentage remained the same—but the
>>>> > passions aroused by the Partition was subsiding and the Muslims won
>>>> > 24 seats, three more than in the first elections. In the third Lok
>>>> > Sabha elections, population percentage-wise Muslim should have
>>>> > received 53 seats but they won only 23. The highest number of seats
>>>> > Muslims won was in the seventh Lok Sabha elections when, though
>>>> > population-percentage wise they should have received 53 seats they
>>>> > managed to secure 49—not bad.
>>>> >
>>>> > Since then, largely because of emotional estrangement, the number of
>>>> > Muslims elected to the Lok Sabha has been falling. From the tenth to
>>>> > the four teen Lok Sabha elections they should have got 66 seats but
>>>> > they could barely manage to get between 28 to 36 seats. The
>>>> > fourteenth Lok Sabha elections were in 2004 when Muslims joined
>>>> > different political parties, primarily to beat the BJP. Muslims got
>>>> > ten seats in Congress, seven in the Samajwadi, four in the CPM, four
>>>> > in the BJP, three in the RJD and one each in other local parties.
>>>> >
>>>> > They can win more, if they get over their antediluvian ideas and
>>>> > become a modern, liberated people, instead of a people suspect of
>>>> > terrorism and anti-Indian motives. They can't get votes by putting
>>>> > their women in burqas and sending their children to madrasas when
>>>> > they should be sent to normal primary and secondary schools to be
>>>> > one with their Hindu and other students from the majority and allied
>>>> > religions.
>>>> >
>>>> > There is another lesson that they should learn which is that hating
>>>> > the BJP and trying to curry favour from the likes of Laloo Prasad
>>>> > Yadav or Mulayam Singh Yadav or Mayavati will not help them. They
>>>> > will continue to remain estranged from the majority community, no
>>>> > matter what arguments the so-called secular parties may put forth to
>>>> > win their favour.
>>>> > Neither in Bihar, nor in Uttar Pradesh has the condition of Muslims
>>>> > changed because they voted against the BJP. As Chaturanan Mishra, a
>>>> > former Union Minister of Labour (1996-1998) and a prominent figure
>>>> > in the Leftist movement in the country aptly noted in Mainstream
>>>> > (August 17) , the Congress, allegedly the largest secular party
>>>> > nominated 39 Muslims in 1991 and 1996, of whom only 12 could win.
>>>> > Similarly, 32 Muslims were nominated by the Congress in 1998 but
>>>> > only seven could succeed.
>>>> >
>>>> > Religion can never be the base of getting a ticket. Muslim citizens
>>>> > must come up in front and be seen as social workers, serving people
>>>> > of all religions. If they insist to live in the past as in the Shah
>>>> > Banoo case, or if they seem to be supporting SIMI, an ISI-financed
>>>> > student organisation—no matter how wrongly—then they doom themselves
>>>> > to being eternally marginalised. And they should not blame the
>>>> > majority community. As Shakespeare might have said to Muslims, the
>>>> > fault, dear sires, lies not in the majority but in yourselves that
>>>> > you want to stay separate.
>>>> >
>>>> > Turks are not less Islamic because the Ataturk threw out the
>>>> > Caliphate and liberated Turkish women.
>>>> >
>>>> > The Indonesians are not less Islamic because they continue to adhere
>>>> > in many ways to their ancient Hindu traditions. They are not
>>>> > hesitant to call their airlines Garuda Airlines; they are not
>>>> > hesitant to give their children Sanskrit name like Meghavati or
>>>> > Saraswati (a daughter of former President Waheed); nor are they
>>>> > hesitant in putting the figure of Ganesh on their currency notes. An
>>>> > Indonesian production of Ramayana would put some of our own Indian
>>>> > artists to shame; but here in India a section of reactionary Muslims
>>>> > refuse to sing even the first two stanzas of Vande Mataram because
>>>> > somewhere down the line in the song there is a reference to Durga.
>>>> > And Indonesia is 98 per cent Muslim!
>>>> >
>>>> > If Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, a great Islamic scholar who had his
>>>> > training in Islamic law and jurisprudence in the famous Islamic
>>>> > University in Cairo, could respect Vande Mataram and stand to
>>>> > attention when it was sung at AICC meetings, surely lesser Islamic
>>>> > scholars can take a leaf from his book.
>>>> >
>>>> > Many Muslim organisations increasingly seem to be taking their cue
>>>> > from fundamentalist Islamic organisation in Pakistan. It is not
>>>> > going to help them one bit and it is time they realise it. Muslims
>>>> > should not consider themselves a minority. India is a democracy and
>>>> > all citizens are equal. Hindus are not that stupid as to want to
>>>> > hurt Islamic sentiments of Muslims. But we need to live under a
>>>> > Common Law as citizens are equal in every way. For Muslims,
>>>> > especially, separatism should be deeply abhorrent. It should be
>>>> > shunned like the very devil.
>>>> >
>>>> > We are one people and India, as Mohammad Iqbal once wrote belongs to
>>>> > everyone, irrespective of caste, creed, religion or community. Sareh
>>>> > jahan seh achcha Hindustan hamara should be our guiding mission.
>>>> > Then everything will fall in its place and—who knows—the time may
>>>> > come when under sound Muslim leadership, Hindus themselves may vote
>>>> > for Muslims. Who, today, is our President? Who, our Prime Minister?
>>>> > And who the leader of the Congress Party, oh?
>>>> > http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?
>>>> > name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=
>>>> >
>>>> > 150&page=12 ---
>>>> > .....................................................................
>>>> > ....................................
>>>> > http://www.blogs.ivarta.com/india-usa-blog-column168.htm
>>>> > Indian Muslims: Dealing with Past
>>>> > Mayank Patel
>>>> >
>>>> > Across the world, Present generation grapples with past wrong
>>>> > committed by previous generation. From South Africa to Germany and
>>>> > from America to Australia, Most groups have acknowledged past
>>>> > misdeeds and apologized for the suffering caused by their action
>>>> > toward others. Thus, making genuine progress on path of truth and
>>>> > reconciliation.
>>>> >
>>>> > However, Indian Muslims have taken opposite path of denial,
>>>> > distortion and deflection. They=2 0have received more than generous
>>>> > help from allies like Marxist, Fabian Socialist, Islamist etc. who
>>>> > are co-travelers on this path. In fact, it is the allies who have
>>>> > encouraged and lead Indian Muslims on this path. On behalf of Indian
>>>> > Muslims, Allies have used denial, distortion and deflection tactic
>>>> > to justify even the most unjustifiable mistakes like partition.
>>>> >
>>>> > Indian Muslim"s pro-partition role is proven beyond reasonable
>>>> > doubt. 1945-46 Provincial Elections were fought on a single agenda
>>>> > of partition. Partition became possible only because overwhelming
>>>> > majority of Indian Muslims indirectly voted for it in that election.
>>>> > Any objective analysis of current course and arguments favoring
>>>> > course correction is usually greeted by an old tactic of shooting
>>>> > the messenger. Three bullets are very popular with shooters.
>>>> >
>>>> > First bullet is "Present Generation of Indian Muslims should not be
>>>> > blamed for Partition". Shooter conveniently and cleverly presumes
>>>> > non-existent intent behind analysis. This is absurd. A course
>>>> > correction and acknowledgement of past generation"s mistake could
>>>> > never imply culpability of present generation. On the contrary,
>>>> > Acknowledgement would reassure all that apple has indeed fallen far
>>>> > from the tree. This would strengthen trust, improve communal
>>>> > relations and lead to reconciliation and closure.
>>>> >
>>>> > Second bullet is much more lethal. It is "165 million strong Indian
>>>> > Muslims cannot be wished away". Let me clarify, I=2 0would not wish
>>>> > away anybody regardless of numerical strength. There is also certain
>>>> > belligerence behind this quote. This virulent belligerence is quite
>>>> > understandable if not agreeable. After all, Indian Muslims are 165
>>>> > million strong and allies who have vice like grip over India"s
>>>> > media, academia and politics are stronger. However, it does not
>>>> > change the fact that current path of denial, distortion and
>>>> > deflection could never lead to peace, truth and reconciliation. On
>>>> > the contrary, The Logical end of this path is civic strife if not
>>>> > civil war in which there are no winners and all losers.
>>>> >
>>>> > Third bullet is the denial bullet. There are dozens of denial
>>>> > bullets. One of the most popular Denial Bullet is silence
>>>> > hypothesis. It claims that Indian Muslims are silent and allies who
>>>> > claim to be speaking and acting on behalf of Indian Muslims are not
>>>> > true representative of Indian Muslims. It further touts this alleged
>>>> > silence as proof that there is no alliance and Indian Muslims
>>>> > disagrees with current path of denial, deflection and distortion.
>>>> > There are many holes in this hypothesis.
>>>> >
>>>> > Firstly, Silence is not same as acknowledgement of past mistakes.
>>>> > Secondly, there is no such thing as silent disagreement.
>>>> > Disagreement is always vocal. On the Contrary, Agreement can often
>>>> > lead to conspiracy of silence. Thus, Alleged Silence can never be
>>>> > interpreted as a disagreement with current path. Finally, Indian
>>>> > Muslims are speaking with their votes and participation in massi ve
>>>> > political rallies. They consistently vote for allies who favor
>>>> > denial path. In fact more an ally denies and asserts innocence of
>>>> > terrorist outfits more vote it receives. These votes provide allies
>>>> > a claim to speak and act on behalf of Indian Muslims.
>>>> >
>>>> > The current path of denial is compounding past mistakes. More-over,
>>>> > it makes Indian Muslims over reliant on Allies. This over reliance
>>>> > is unhealthy and dangerous. Allies have their own ideological beef
>>>> > against Hindus and have selfish interest is making matters worse.
>>>> > There are many reasons for breaking the alliance and changing
>>>> > course. Perhaps the best reason is to end a history of wrongdoing
>>>> > and leave a legacy of honesty for future generation.
>>>> >
>>>> > Related story:
>>>> >
>>>> > Forgive, not Forget History @
>>>> > http://indiaview.wordpress.com/2008/01/25/forgive-but-never-forget-%
>>>> > e2%80%93-history/
>>>> > _________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> _________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> National Highway - http://shivamvij.com/
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