[Reader-list] I don't oppose your thinking; but spit at it

Fri Oct 24 08:28:36 IST 2008

Dear RL

Timeless intervention by Tapas and Shuddha has indeed pointed out the
faults in such use of words.  Hope that s/he is removed from the list
as desired by Tapas.
also this kind of use of language in the list or in public, actually
diminishes the potency of such words. At the best they can be  used
for a friendly exchange between  individuals well known to each other.
Such strong words are good for making noise during a angry street
brawl. without a progress in dialogue, which finally leads to hathapai
( actual fighting )

 Particularly, people like me who sometimes use such words  for
effective expressions in Art, can found it difficult if there is no
difference between this and that. throwing shit on others, and using
shit ( own or others ) are distinctly two opposite practices.

warmly
is

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:43 AM, Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com> wrote:
> RL,
>
> First, I think such language is not appropriate in a quasi-public space
> as this.
>
> Second, I think this is what you are saying:
>
> 1. You are questioning the practice of speaking one language in private
> settings and another in public ones, quasi-public in this case.
>
> 2. You are saying that language is fundamentally metaphorical (concept
> of deep/conceptual metaphor), and the metaphors arise from our deep
> motives. These motives ultimately go back to our bodies. One can agree
> with this. There are theories that say so.
>
> 3. Sex is a primary drive/motive and this is reflected in the language
> we use in private (galis, i.e., words of abuse). If Aditya can talk
> about spitting, why not - coming to (1) - another bodily motive, sex,
> here on Reader-list?
>
> 4. I am not sure, but you may be saying, also, that the act of spitting
> is itself a metaphor for the act of domination expressed through certain
> kinds of sex. So Aditya's "spitting" is an expression of the desire to
> dominate.
>
> I would like to say that the example you chose - involving Hindu priests
> - is likely to hurt some Hindus. Let's avoid that, since we already have
> so much bitterness.
>
> But now that it's done, let's note that what you say happens, happens
> not just to Hindu priests, not to priests in general, nor all kinds of
> preachers, including politicians (say, when they are addressing a rally
> - or, even worse, speaking to supporters standing in full view like
> McCain and Obama) but to men as a whole. The equivalent of this may be
> happening to women, too, but I am not sure.
>
> Having said that, I think the question you have raised is very
> interesting. There are two things involved here. One, why does a
> public/quasi-public discussion need a language that is different from
> the one we use with peers, and two, if one body metaphor is used, why
> not another, relating to a deeper level of metaphor.
>
> My take on the first point is that the language we use is always
> relative to the hearer and the occasion. Even with peers, we don't use
> the same language with all peers all the time. It all depends. If
> language is not adapted for these things, communication breaks down.
>
> As for the second issue - why not sexually motivated words if one can
> use spittationally/expectorationally (somebody help me here) motivated
> ones - I am not sure. The writer who spat can probably answer that question.
>
> Tapas
>
>
>
> Real Unreal wrote:
>> looks my dear friend
>> this all discussion on the list on different topics is not doing one
>> good thing, it exposes the hidden intentions of participants.
>>
>> besides this what is like is that people should take about their
>> intense personal lives. which they will not. all they do is '
>> representation' of this or that.
>>
>> hindu , muslim, kashmiri, bengali, etc etc, this sometimes is boring
>> for me. but since nothing is happening around, so let it be.
>>
>> i enjoy reading this and that.
>>
>> your choice of slangs ( gali ) is bascially about our real intentions
>> again. now see Adiyta sahib can not write the way you write. he writes
>> on the list as if it a havan puja, so can not see the small wet
>> erection under dothi of the pandit shouting mantras.
>>
>> you are free from that. but can we return to the language which is
>> actually in use out there.
>>
>> now see how much chootiya,  behenchod  ( sister fucker ) is around but
>> we never hear that on the list, as if it is prohibited.
>> may be if everybody uses that kind of language, the  sponsors might be
>> close it down.
>>
>> anyway, by let us be chootiya, by not using chootiya so often,
>>
>> what is important here, to my mind is that we need not look like those
>> journalists who talk decent in the newspapers, but when they meet in
>> private spaces and use some other language
>>
>> and if it is the same, then we have better articles on all subjects,
>> in the print media out there
>>
>> why we need the list, if we can not use slangs publicly,
>>
>> who is afraid of being known as chootiya in the LIst. we all
>> chootiyas, let us declare it first and then debate the serious issues,
>> in a very  funny way.
>>
>> you need not agree
>>
>> ru
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> RL,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your message. Unfortunately, though I am moderately
>>> proficient in Hindi, I can't follow quite a it of what you say,
>>> probably because its in the Roman script and I can't associate it with
>>> words that are actually known to me. I do understand some, but not
>>> all. I think I understand the first sentence, in which you seem to say
>>> that I have a clean heart. I must thank you for your kind words if my
>>> interpretation is correct. On this assumption, I am curious to know
>>> what it is in my writing that brought you to such a positive
>>> conclusion about me.
>>>
>>> Please do not hesitate to let me know if my interpretation is wrong,
>>> and you meant something less flattering. I will not mind at all.
>>> Yesterday, another list member wrote offlist, in very indirect terms,
>>> that he didn't like the present tone of my posts. I asked him to
>>> clarify, assuring him that I would not be offended. He took my word
>>> for it and told me what he meant. I explained why I was writing what I
>>> was writing, apologising for the discomfort I had caused, and I think
>>> he was surprised by my reaction.
>>>
>>> The point of this long paragraph is to assure you that you can tell me
>>> whatever you want - positive, negative, neutral, downright "gali",
>>> etc. - in English, so that I understand.
>>>
>>> As for the messages you have posted on the list, I am a little
>>> concerned that the many foreigners who are on the list will probably
>>> feel left out by your Hindi/Urdu messages. I would urge you to
>>> consider this.
>>>
>>> I will look forward to reading English translations of your posts ...
>>> leaving out - on the list - things like "labda" that I seem to have
>>> seen, and assume refers to what most of us know as the male genital.
>>> But I would appreciate it if you would take the trouble to send me,
>>> offlist, the "uncensored" version, as I shall definitely enjoy the
>>> flavour, even if it is a "gali" meant for me. I love gali and have
>>> enjoyed exchanging choice ones with my friends.
>>>
>>> Thanks again,
>>>
>>> Tapas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2008/10/19 Real Unreal <hiddenbuthere at gmail.com>:
>>>> achha hai, tum dil kay bohot saaf ho,
>>>>
>>>> magar kay karan yeh naddan log kuch  zayada hi raita phala rahain hai
>>>>
>>>> bazar mein akal biknay ko hoti, to ak ad pav is aditya londay ko pila
>>>> data, acha kaam kar sakta hai, magar galat jamat mein lagta hai fus
>>>> gaya hi. chalo, hindustan ki kistam, asi hi sahi
>>>>
>>>> ru
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 12:56 AM, Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> It's just about Aditya.
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, I love your chosen name.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2008/10/18 Real Unreal <hiddenbuthere at gmail.com>:
>>>>>> was this only because of spitting by Aditya, or is it a fragment of a
>>>>>> large piece?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> So much spit! Bottomless well of spittle surrounded by date palms.
>>>>>>> Trees bent low under the weight of large red pomegranates (not sure)
>>>>>>> bursting with pinkish paan-tinged spittle in the middle of a burning
>>>>>>> desert of pseudosecular bandits. The weary soldier, battered and
>>>>>>> bloody, survivor of horrific ideological battles, parks his donkey
>>>>>>> with red sindoor swastikas painted on its sides. He sends the bucket
>>>>>>> rattling down into the well, from which emanates a cry of despair - "I
>>>>>>> am yours. Spare me, please! do not drink me!"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2008/10/18 Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>> As List members have been time and again saying, INDER SALIM or whatever you
>>>>>>>> name is, you suffer from some psychological problem.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, in this latest e-mail; you indirectly compare yourself with Lal Ded.
>>>>>>>> What can be worse ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would surely spit at a person's thinking; who belongs to my own community;
>>>>>>>> has suffered the brunt of Islamic Terrorism; and still acts deaf and dumb. I
>>>>>>>> would spit at his thinking when he acts ignorant or his name, sur-name,
>>>>>>>> community, country and even religion. I repeat I would spit at you thinking.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does that make you happy ? The List Members know who said it now - LOD &
>>>>>>>> CLEAR. Happy ???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And, I'm no younger brother of yours. Kindly stay away.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm and will always be a prod Kashmiri Pandit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Love
>>>>>>>> Aditya Raj Kaul
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _________________________________________
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>> _________________________________________
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>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.
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> _________________________________________
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> Critiques & Collaborations
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