[Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi

Tue Sep 16 18:25:14 IST 2008

Dear Kshmendra,
The questions you have asked about 'what is terror', etc is something I
would not like to elaborate on as each has his/her own interpretation.

Bhagat Singh is a freedom fighter as far as we Indians are concerned, but
for the govt of the day he was a terrorist. There is no 'standard'
definition of what a terrorist is and each person / entity would translate
the word in their own way.

As for defining LTTE as Hindu terrorists - guess that question is wide open
depending upon what we use as the pointer. If the primary factor is what
religion / group do they belong to, then we'd have a ready answer.

If, however, we look beyond and try to identify the aim / purpose behind the
conflict, there'd be another answer all together - some of them not very
clear.

Even if a 'terrorist' follows a ideology/religion/place/societal group -
that's a personal root that s/he has. It does not follow that all people of
the ideology/religion/place/societal group follow the same radical
conclusion.

Guess we could go on and on - fact is that we'll all equate the phrase
'terrorist' from our personal point of view and experiences.

Apologies for sounding vague, but you started a line of thought that I'd
never really looked at before.

Rgds, Partha
.................................

On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Dear Partha
>
> My questioning of the LTTE being called Hindu was to help me in my
> discussions with my own self.
>
> I am still struggling in my mind over 'what is terror'; 'who is a
> terrorist'; 'when should an organisation (or a system) be called a terrorist
> one' and 'when should an act of terror, or a terrorist, or a terrorist
> organisation be identified with an ideology/religion/place/societal group'.
>
> There is total agreement with your words:
>
> """""" The terrorist may belong to any religion or caste or place or
> whatever - however, lumping all the people of that religion or caste or
> place as terrorists because one or some people from that group performed
> 'acts of terrorism' is not justifiable."""""""
>
> Kshmendra
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 9/16/08, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> From: Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi
> To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 9:37 AM
>
>
>  Dear Kshmendra,
> Studied in Baroda / Vadodra and saw communal rights flare up on
> the weirdest of reasons. Have seen a close friend who wouldn't kill
> cockroaches try to burn a bus in the frenzy of a mob.
>
> As for defining the LTTE as Hindu - my point is different, and is something
> I have mentioned earlier. The terrorist may belong to any religion or caste
> or place or whatever - however, lumping all the people of that religion or
> caste or place as terrorists because one or some people from that group
> performed 'acts of terrorism' is not justifiable.
>
> In short, am against the mass generalization wherein we identify an entire
> group a 'terrorists'.
>
> To put it the other way around, am a Hindu, but do not identify with the
> demolition of the Babri Masjid or the attacks on Christians that is
> happening. Just a personal belief, but if any person is converting to
> another faith for benefits accrued then obviously his faith wasn't strong in
> the first place & s/he won't be much of a loss.
>
> Rgds, Partha
> .......................................
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> Dear Partha
>>
>> Do not mean to butt in.
>>
>> Just wondering whether any 'acts of terrorrising' by the LTTE can be
>> designated as 'acts of terrorising' by Hindus.
>>
>> Would it not be more apt to link 'acts of terror' with a religious
>> identity when such 'acts of terror' are carried out in the name a particular
>> religion or are solely based on the religious identity?
>>
>> There are many instances of 'acts of terror by Hindus' which can be so
>> designated because they are carried out in the name of Hinduism or are
>> solely based upon and connected to the Hindu identity of the perpetrators.
>>
>> Just wondering.
>>
>> Kshmendra
>>
>> --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Partha Dasgupta <
>> partha.dasgupta at eliteinfomachine.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Partha Dasgupta <partha.dasgupta at eliteinfomachine.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi
>> To: radhikarajen at vsnl.net
>> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
>> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 4:28 PM
>>
>> Dear Radhika Rajen,
>>
>> In may mails on this list you have pointed out how the elected
>> representative is only a beneficiary divided caste votes and not a true
>> representative.
>>
>> Now you jump to another point altogether and talk about the UPA
>> chairperson
>> and the eloctorate.
>>
>> Please  stick to a viewpoint as it is hard to trace what your viewpoint
>> is.
>> If you have changed your viewpoint, then please denote so.
>>
>> In any case, saw the killings (directly and first hand in Delhi) during
>> the
>> Sikh militancy days and have seen communal riots in Baroda, Gujarat; and
>> all
>> I can say is that when herd mentality takes over the common sense is lost.
>>
>> Also, from Babri Masjid to the incapable idiots who got blown up some time
>> back, we have seen Hindu militancy.
>>
>> Either we can agree that militancy in all forms is wrong or we can quibble
>> about shades of right or wrong.
>>
>> So, where do you stand:
>>
>> a)   Militancy & armed conflict is wrong
>>
>> OR
>>
>> b)   Hindu's are allowed to have a conflict as they have been repressed as
>> a
>> majority
>>      and that cases like Godhra, Sikh killings in Delhi and Babri Masjid
>> are justified.
>>
>> Rgds, Partha
>>
>> PS: I do note that when you talk of terror, you never refer to the LTTE
>> (Hindu & Indian) which is considered as one of the most dangerous
>> terrorist
>> organisations and has killed a Prime Minister of India (and is not Muslim
>> or
>> Christian) or the killing of Indira Gandi - or is it that since they were
>> not BJP/RSS that you do not consider them a loss?
>> .....................................................
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 4:05 PM, <radhikarajen at vsnl.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Without getting in to blame games, the need of the moment is the
>> > chairperson of UPA who is now proxy governor of the nation should have
>> good
>> > introspection of the events and see if her Home Minister who was once
>> > speaker, but discarded by the electorate, got into rajya sabha by
>> nomination
>> >  and then is the Home minister, is he capable of any action. A dummy
>> like
>> > Prime minister, again diitto to the governance who has no incentive to
>> > perform as Prime minister being discard beaucrat, has been  of yester
>> years,
>> > can not make up his mind to take tough action for fear of votebank
>> getting
>> > "hurt". By this inaction, in actual practise muslims are getting
>> branded as
>> > terrorists for the simple reason, they are not willing to be ready to
>> > identify, isolate and give up those who indulge in terror activities. It
>> is
>> > sad scene indeed. Wheras the hindus do not want violence and bhajrang
>> dal
>> > gets no sympathy for its acts of violence, muslims by floating NGOs to
>> > defend the accused are helping the ter
>> > ror accused, sheltoring the accused for plain and simple lots of money
>> in
>> > the trade of defending the terror.
>> >
>> > regards.
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Priya Sen <senpriya at gmail.com>
>> > Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:18 pm
>> > Subject: [Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi
>> > To: reader-list at sarai.net
>> >
>> > > Dear All,
>> > >
>> > > India Gate, September 13th, 6:20 or so in the evening. I had
>> > > decided to walk
>> > > from Triveni Academy towards Khan Market, determined to buy a
>> > > bicycle and
>> > > thinking, it's getting dark and maybe I should wait until Monday
>> > > and I
>> > > shouldn't tell my mother about my biking plans and even though I
>> > > plan to
>> > > ride early mornings I need to ride it back home now and so on and
>> > > so forth.
>> > > India Gate was as India Gate is on a weekend evening. Walking
>> > > through it
>> > > made me think of other times I had been there, a few specific
>> > > memories and a
>> > > general sense of being in Delhi - of familiarity and ease from
>> > > having been
>> > > here for as long as I have, and of curiousity, the kind that comes
>> > > fromknowing that places are never the same - making mental notes
>> > > for no one
>> > > really about the Kwality Walls ice cream cart that had a board
>> > > saying 'Old
>> > > Vendor, India Gate since 1956', and the astrologer who sits in
>> the
>> > > sameplace always, and people with video cameras filming the gate
>> > > who always make
>> > > me wonder at what they think  when they play it back later. It
>> > > took 15
>> > > minutes to cross over to Shah Jahan Road. Me, a couple of young
>> > > men, and a
>> > > papad seller who the policeman who was also waiting for the lights to
>> > > change, generally swore at, and I laughed at how swearing is so
>> > > integral to
>> > > ones day in Delhi.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Later I heard there were a couple of bombs that were defused, one
>> > > at Regal
>> > > Cinema and one at India Gate. I realized how many stories there
>> > > are now. Of
>> > > yesterday. Of where we were when.. . Of places we know so well. Of
>> > > our lives
>> > > up until the moment life changed for so many people in our city.
>> > > Of the
>> > > things that make our days what they are and will continue to.
>> > > Everyone will
>> > > have a story because everyone needs to claim something from
>> > > moments like
>> > > these. And everyone (in this city) must because this moment was
>> > > about Delhi.
>> > > It's happened before. Here, in other places, it will happen again
>> > > and again
>> > > and these will be 'the times according to people who live in
>> these
>> > > times'.And all we can really do is to embrace our lives a little
>> > > harder.
>> > >
>> > > The last time I mourned for this city, a little like this, is when
>> > > I watched
>> > > Nanglamachi being demolished and people gathering their lives into
>> > > bundlesand tempos and going wherever. The ruthlessness was
>> > > overwhelming. Not to
>> > > make analogies here. Although nothing wrong with analogies and
>> > > other things
>> > > that make us feel what we feel. No rules for that! Think, feel
>> > > whatever -
>> > > it's all part of the way we make sense of things on day 2. It was
>> like
>> > > watching the news right after the blasts happened, when the
>> > > reporters were
>> > > as bewildered as everyone else. Somehow in their floundering the news
>> > > channels were credible for a moment. Before the information
>> > > started coming
>> > > in and before they started interpreting it, that is. We know what
>> > > they do
>> > > and do well. Nothing is surprising, just a bit defeating and then
>> > > you think
>> > > why. Maybe we're defeated by the way we think, are told to think,
>> > > don'tthink. Maybe sometimes it has nothing to do with how we
>> live.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Delhi feels quiet today, but that's also from where I am. Also
>> > > it's Sunday.
>> > > It will probably not seem very different when I go out later in the
>> > > afternoon. But my sister called me this morning and was in tears
>> > > and saying
>> > > she couldn't sleep because of all this and is feeling restless
>> > > because lakhs
>> > > of people are going to be out on the streets today for Ganapati
>> > > visarjan in
>> > > Bombay. For her it's about Bombay as well, the place where she
>> has
>> > > her life.
>> > > When public places become vulnerable it means having to make
>> > > decisions about
>> > > things one doesn't necessarily think about. It's about
>> everything
>> > > outside of
>> > > us that is essential to how we construct our lives. It's about
>> > > everydaydecisions, small things, immediate concerns. About being
>> > > able to imagine,
>> > > and dream and lose ourselves in places. For a few days we will be
>> > > excruciatingly aware of how we move around the city. There will be
>> > > remorseand anxiety and conversation. We will share a common grief,
>> > > in degrees, and
>> > > it will bring us together more intensely. We will count and blame and
>> > > speculate. And then we will thankfully, move on.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Right now though, I would rather not. Not for today. I just want
>> > > to be with
>> > > what this city means to me. Aside from its symbols, its creation
>> > > of itself,
>> > > its skewed power dynamics and unbearable inequalities. A friend
>> > > and I are
>> > > convinced that "Delhi steps in when we really need something
>> to.".
>> > > Like the
>> > > wisdom of places. Not to get melodramatic! I'm glad I was here
>> > > when this
>> > > happened and not somewhere else.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Regards,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Priya
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Priya Sen
>> > > Sarai-CSDS
>> > > 29, Rajpur Road, Civil Lines
>> > > Delhi - 110054
>> > > priya at sarai.net
>> > > _________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________
>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > subscribe in the subject header.
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Partha Dasgupta
>> +919811047132
>>  _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in
>> the subject header.
>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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>>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in the subject header.
>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Partha Dasgupta
> +919811047132
>
>
>

-- 
Partha Dasgupta
+919811047132